I do not use tent, but use grow lights. I am not sure they make tent big enough to fit all or most of my plants in it :)

Seriously tho - where do you want to keep it? LED lights produce little heat, but wouldn't it be bit too warm in a tent? Many succulents 'sleep' during winter, but I guess you could encourage them to grow even during dormant period...I am trying to figure out how to decrease temps for them during winter rather than keep them warm.

Kara

I am not sure, but think whip wants to use tent indoors. They are made for indoor use.

Kara, The tent will be inside in the basement.

Rina, The basement isn’t heated, but it usually stays about 65 all winter. I’d assume the tent with lights would be a bit warmer. I want the light for the plants like Jades and Aloes that grow all year. The ones that go dormant won’t be in the tent.

whip

65*F is plenty for them to grow. Mine are in about 60*F (bit below and bit over, but probably never over 62*F) and I find them still growing. Lights are on for 12hrs. If I could, I would keep them in temps around 45*F. I believe tent would be too hot and humid. It is good for growing weed, or hot peppers or similar IMO :)

Agree with Rina. Tent is unnecessary and may be a problem. I am in SE Michigan. I summer my plants in full sun outside. Comes colder fall weather, they move into the basement under T5's @5000K/3500lumens. These are Echeveria and Haworthia. My basement is unheated but maintains an average 24 hour temp of 60ºF~65ºF. The lights are on a timer which gets reset through the winter for the daylight time: so December-January they are on for about 10 hours. I have two fans which are on the same timer. The Echies keep their color and don't get etiolated.

I winter in my basement and it stays 60 to 65 thru out the season. I use the cheap Walmart LED shop lights. They now sell a 4 foot with 5000 lumens at 5000k (daylite) using 45 watts for under $20. I use about 10 of them. On a timer of 12 on 12 off. Mostly sansevieria. Since I switched to LED my success rate has greatly improved. 6500k is better but cost too much.

Can you share some of your setup pictures please ? Last year, I had about 45 succulents had then on a three tier shelf with 6500K lights bought from Amazon ( based on the info I gathered from this group). I used to water them once a week by taking them all to the kitchen sink. This year, my collection expanded from 45 to 150 pots and might have to move them into basement ( finished basement and temps will be in mid 60’s). So wondering if I should get more three tier shelf stands. How do you water them? That’s my biggest worry. My collection mainly consists of Echeverias. Posting a pic from of my setup from last year. Any suggestion and ideas are appreciated. Thank you!

Kktayy, yours is so much nicer than my set up. Home made shelves and shop lights. What I use is watering can and from the top. Which is not always the best but in the winter time I let them go longer periods with out watering.

Using mirrors in the back sides of stand to increase light. These were T-8 Florescent shop lights. Now upgraded to the LED'S.

One of the reasons I liked the tent was to help contain the light. I was thinking since a lot of the plants in there like heat, it wouldn’t be a problem. Do you think it’s a better idea to just put the plants on a table under the light with no tent? The tent isn’t cheap, so I don’t mind mot buying it if I don’t have to.

I would forget all about tent for your purpose. Get god lights instead, and a timer. I have quite a few plants on two tables, with lights above. Many plants are on the shelves, also with lights above. I have used some mylar for reflection (same as mirrors Stush uses), but wouldn't bother with it again. IIRC, white is reflecting most of the light.

Thanks. I’ll revise my search and start looking just at lights.

T5 LED’s are a bit more cosy but well with the $$$. https://www.1000bulbs.com/

@rina - could you please share some of your setup pics also how do you water them?

whip

Sorry if I am talking off the subject...

kktayy

I water with a garden hose or large watering can using collected rain water while outside. Indoors, I use a smaller watering can, and water from the top.

Sorry, but I don't have good photos of my winter set-up; I'll show you photos I have. They are not as nice and organized as yours, lots of homemade stuff. And most are in plastic (recycled) pots.

Here is one of the shelves with mylar on the wall behind. These are in the basement. The lights are LED tubes:

These jades are on a table in the basement, under the lights (no mylar on the wall :). Temps are around 60*F, and lights are on for 12hrs. Sorry, it is just overhead photo:

Here are some jades on west-facing windowsill. These do not have any supplemental lights, and are upstairs:

Some of my sansevierias; they are on a wooden shelve. There is a window 90 degrees to that wall, no extra lights. Also upstairs:

Here are some cuttings, callusing on a shelve. Those are the shelves I use in the basement - wire closet shelves that I bought at restore for few dollars. I have approx. 60' of them altogether (maybe bit more?). They are just on the wall, two at the time (so I can reach plants easily):

I don't have any lights upstairs. I have them in the basement, and set on timers. They switch on at 7:00pm until 7:00am, because hydro is quite a bit less $$$ during night. So I switched day for the night :) There is practically no natural light in the basement - windows are very small, and I covered them.

Most of the lights are LED, but I still have lots of CFL (spiral) lightbulbs. These produce some heat comparing to LED. But after acclimatizing, plants are quite close to all lights.

Thank you so much @rina for sharing and explaining your setup. How do you handle excess water that drains out of the pots during winter? Do you water with certain measurement so that they don’t drain out a lot?

Doc, I haven’t looked at T5 bulbs. I’ve been looking at “regular” LED grow lights. Is there an advantage to the T5?

Rina, you’re still talking about plants under lights. its all good.

T5 LED tubes use much less energy for the same light output. They generate much less heat. Last significantly longer. Since my lights aren’t being used currently (summer) I can’t send a picture but I know I’ve posted somewhere on Houzz a pic.

kktayy

I keep all plants on large trays, so excess water drains on those. I water until pots start draining, not by any measurements. I let them drain, and after about 15 min or so, I just 'soak' up drained out water with a cloth. I use mostly inorganic mix, so very little or none of the water is reabsorbed back. I was thinking of making a drainage hole in each tray and attaching a hose to it so water drains out, but never did that. I do it this way because it would take too long to water each plant individually over the sink. Plants on windowsill are mostly on saucers or much smaller trays, so if there is any excess water, I usually just drain the saucers. But there are not so many, so it doesn't take too much time.

I should drain my collection water but too lazy to. I let them sit in the water but it's not that much. Spring when I bring them back out is when they get a good drenching outside.

Howard, I would suggest you try one of those 45 watt shop lights at Walmarts. I get some good results from them. Better than outside natural lighting. Maybe because it doesn't burn them with heat or something. Colors really stand out on the plants.

I too have a few wire closet shelves hung from the ceiling on hooks and chain. Very easy set up at little cost. I use a lot of 'Boot Trays' for under my plants as well. My cellar is full of junk and have little space for my plants. Wife is always yelling at me to clean up the place but it's too good to throw out.

I’ve got an old table downstairs that I don’t use. I could very easily get two of the lights in the link and set them on a timer above the table. Would these lights work well for what I want? For some reason I can’t post a link. Hopefully the picture is there.

Whip, Like I stated, 5000K is better 6500K best and best deal is Sam's Club or Walmart 4 ft. LED shop lights at 45 watt 5000K and 5000 lumens at the $20 level. That will work great. There are better systems like Howard's but cost is more and depends on the plants being used on. Distance is also important. If too far the light decreases. You want your plants as close as possible. No fear of burning with LED's. Many of my Aloes and Echeveria sends blooms stocks right into the bulbs.

If Home Depot had that in 5000k, that would be a good deal.

Keep in mind cost over time. A small investment in a 24W LED over something using almost twice the energy may cost more long term. As in my situation, I started with 54W 6500K T12’s. My monthly winter electric bill doubled. I purchased retrofit 24W 5000K T5 LED’s and paid for ALL 24 of my 4’ tubes in the first season of use because of reduced electrical usage. My plants faired just as well with the new set up

Howard, did you remove the ballast from your old T12 system? I purchased some LED ballast ready bulbs but ballast still gets hot and they work just as well with ballast removed. They are 15 watt, 5000k 3200 lumuns.

No, I didn’t remove anything. I purchased retrofit T5’s. They work with or without ballast.

Just my point. You may be wasting electricity with excess heating of the ballast. I did the same thing then I notice how hot the ballast was getting. There may be a print on the bulb itself showing how. It burned out some of my light ballast with the electronic ballast after on for a while. Jumped ballast out and seemed a little brighter but not sure. Also had trouble with bulb shutting off after a few hours then relighting. Doesn't happen with ballast removed.

My ballasts don’t get hot. I have 8’ lights with two ballasts in each fixture. None of the four fixtures get hot. They used to get warm with the old T12 fluorescent tubes

I went from 12x4' T4HO 54W 6400K lamp fixtures to 6x4' LED 48W 6400K strip lights (by Sunblaster) along with switching to more efficient DC brushless circulation fans. My power consumption went from 856W to 296W, which is saving me around $400 per year in electricity with time of use pricing. This was measured with power meters and calculated by spreadsheet (including weekends, holidays, based on sunrise/sunset, etc.).

My LED lights quite a bit more expensive than @bikerdoc5968 Z6 SE MI's lights but do a great job. It's important to get lights with enough output. After that it is debatable how much more 'value' you get from fancier lights since you can just increase your output by moving your lights closer or buying a couple more fixtures.

The DC brushless fans are really handy because of the significantly lower power consumption, much longer lifespan, and fine speed adjustment. I leave them running 22 hours each day because I find that I get problems if I have them off for too long.

Overall, with less energy wasted to heat I also find my loft growing area much less hot in the summer than before which also reduces my A/C bill while also increasing my personal comfort. Very worth it!

Most of my plants are Sansevieria which can do well on lower light but even my agave seem to do well on 5000k level. I know your system is 5 times better but mine does well for me. In the past I had some setbacks using cheap T8 fluorescent bulbs and cost more.

@Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6 LED grow lights are overpriced in general. The sunblaster ones are more expensive in part because they have photometric testing done on them. I find that data interesting/helpful for my own knowledge.

But are the lights I bought 5x better than yours for up to 5x the cost? I really doubt that. Say your lights are 40% dimmer or not as good due to spectrum (which I think is a real stretch) - you still have a lot of money to compensate for that difference in extra fixtures. Maybe over a long time the electricity costs will even out, but who knows.

Did you ever check the energy consumption with and without the ballasts?

@bikerdoc5968 Z6 SE MI's indoor grow light setup is really good and his plants really show it. =) I think the retro-fit LED solution works well for him because he has a large number of existing fixtures with good reflectors. Removing the (assumed magnetic) ballasts could save maybe 20% in electricity costs, but I'm not sure how much he is into wiring/trying that out.

@rina_Ontario,Canada 5a Mylar is the cheapest solution for reflecting light, but if you have circulating fans the crinkly sounds can be annoying if it's not secured well. I agree that if you have a white wall, the difference is light reflectance is negligible. Using mirrors is not worth the cost either. I've measured and tested this, along with doing lighting calculations for work.

Kevin is SUPER SMART when it comes to lighting, well he’s just super smart! I’m simple-minded. The T5 lights I use are 5000K broad spectrum so they mimic daylight wavelength. If daylight is good enough for our agricultural growing community, it’s good enough for me: Simple-minded! At one foot from light source, I measure an average of 1500 fc(foot candles). Today, I have light overcast and in the GH with my Echies covered with a 40% shade cloth, I’m averaging about the same foot candles. I paid about $6.25/tube. They are more costly now; about $10/tube

ewwmayo

IIRC, you posted a table showing different colors for light reflection and white was either top or near it (I thought I saved it, but can't find it). As I said, I wouldn't bother with mylar again. I would just paint everything white :) I do have one mirror, that is actually sliding door from the closet, that is behind some plants. But that is not on purpose - I just store it that way (should probably dispose of old junk, but I am like Stush...)

I do not use any fans - so far, the air circulation is ok in my case. I have whole unfinished basement to keep my succulents in, and can also open the door leading to a breezway if I need to.

@rina_Ontario,Canada 5a I don't know how you manage without air circulation fans all winter long. Maybe your lights are warmer and that helps keep the humidity above the soil line low? Really not sure how you do it.

@bikerdoc5968 Z6 SE MI When I brought my spectroscope over, I remember your LED lights had a pretty consistent spectrum which is . That lines up with you saying they are broad spectrum. The 6500k vs 5000k is really like an average color temperature and doesn't tell the whole story.

Not sure if it’s pandemic related or if I’m not looking for the right thing, but I can’t find any T5 fixtures and LED bulbs. I’m seeing plenty of T8 and T12, but no T5.

https://www.wholesalecontractorsupply.com/T5-Shop-Light-HFA2A454APSMV000000I-p/HFA2A454APSMV000000I.htm?_vsrefdom=ppcgoogle&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=%7Bkeyword%7D&utm_campaign=WCS%20Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsuP5BRCoARIsAPtX_wFbHAR7Gqf3DXKj8N3asuco6fNeaLukuYO5MqOrHOQvGug55T6W-bwaAoQ0EALw_wcB

ewwmayo

I am assuming that since I have larger and open space, air circulation is ok. Temps in the basement are approx. 14-15*C most of the winter - I have thermometers in few spots, so know for sure. 15*C is in area where I still have quite a few CFL lightbulbs, but most of my lights are now LED tubes. How warm is your loft during winter? Do you consider my temps average, higher or lower? I do have dehumidifier - bought years ago - but have not use it for years.

I had a few wall mirrors so I put them to use. Then Walmart had them on sale for $4 ea. appox. 12" x 48" and since my stand had no front or rear sides I figured that would make a great enclousure. Simple basic electricity; any thing that heats waist power to produce the heat. what makes LED's so attractive is the light with out (or little) heat.

Thought I will add some bits from my experience.

For a reflective surface I use panda film. It is black on one side and white on the other side. made of thick poly film and is very durable. Also easily washable and stays smooth. for a 10x10 sheet it is $17 on Amazon and the larger ones are even cheaper per sq foot. No need to mess with painting walls, etc. Mylar is more pain than it is worth.

I made the switch to LEDs a few years back. Experimented with all kinds including plain bulbs, tubes and boards made specifically for plants. They all have their quirks with respect to usage, efficiency, price and reliability.

All leds produce heat and it is this heat that lowers the efficiency and can potentially cause other problems. Unlike other light sources leds are unidirectional which is exactly want we want for plants. In most cases the led itself produces most of its light in a 120 degree cone. Means we waste less light and no need of very fancy reflectors.

Bulbs are least reliable. The heat generated by leds destroys the electronics since it is confined to such a small space and run for extended periods. Expect them to die in 1-2 years. They come with frosted covering to spread unidirectional light in many directions to mimic regular household bulb. The frosted covering cuts down the light, it would have been better without that. My measurements show you can get 30-40% more light without the cover. Made with cheap, not so efficient leds. Useful for spot lighting.
Tubes are convenient when you have many plants of approximately the same height. Most made with same cheap, not so efficient, leds as bulbs. Does not suffer from the same electronics destroying heat since it is spread over a much larger area. Makes them a bit more reliable. I lost 2 tubes out of may be 16 or so I use. Light output per unit area is low so you need more in parallel and closer to the canopy.

Light panels made for horticulture are all over the place in terms of price/power/efficiency. After doing a lot of research I settled on quantum boards from horticulture lighting group. This particular panel is 60W, super bright, very good spectrum and runs completely cool to touch. If you wire it yourself it costs about $60 a panel with dimming feature. This panel is great for tallish plants of varying heights. Hard to beat price performance of this panel.

Currently I have 3 - Durolux T5 ho fluorescent fixtures that I used with a steel free standing shelving unit ( 36 L X 14” depth) - https://“www.amazon.com/4lamps-DL844s-Fluorescent-Hydroponic-Fixture/dp/B00HEYCRI8/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=t5+grow+lights&qid=1599597327&sprefix=T5+&sr=8-6#immersive-view_1599597347164” ( T5 Durolux fluoroscent fixture).

The above setup worked well last year.. didn’t see any etiolated plants but felt the heat was too much for succulents which are in 4 X 4 planters. This year with my increased collection ( mainly Echeverias) I need to get another shelving unit and grow lights and looking to see if I can get LED fixtures. For sure I want to get 48”( L) and 18 or 24” (D) Shelving unit with 3 or 4 shelves. Any recommendation of light fixtures. Amazon has so many and these seem to be very very reasonable but will they work?

https://www.amazon.com/Integrated-Fixture-Utility-Ceiling-Electric/dp/B07FF3R16Z/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=grow+lights+6500k+LED&qid=1599598626&sr=8-6&th=1&psc=1

They are not listed as grow lights though. If not any any recommendation for 48 L X 18/24 D shelves. I will have to buy three sets of lights which ever route I take. Links to products would be great.

That looks to be a super deal. You will same on the light bill also from the T5's. That's a better set up than mine and cheaper.

Your choice of led tubes should work. But they put out lot less mount of light per tube than your t5 florescent. To match the light output you will need two of the led tubes for each of the t5 you are replacing. I suspect you had your t5 fixture too close to the plants to cause heat stress. The t5 fixture should be at least 12 inches over the plants may be a bit more so that it covers something like 4 ft x 2 ft area. That will result in a planting area where the center will get a lot more intense light than the edges but should be safer. I do rotate the plants around under tube arrays for this reason.

The leds can be a bit closer depending on how many you put in parallel. If you use 4 of them in parallel then the plants can be 6-8 inches below the light.

Thank you! Based on what I choose 18”/24” depth shelf, I am thinking of having 6-8 led tubes/shelf. Will they be sufficient?

Last winter was my first one with grow lights and learnt few things and you are right.. t5 were very close to plants and I had to move them up and also tried to make a note on how the plants were reacting.

I think your target of 6-8 tubes per shelf is a good one. If your plants are generally short like most succulents are it should work out. You can bring some of the shorter ones closer by raising them with some say Styrofoam blocks. Good luck, I am thinking of getting some of those tubes myself. Seems like a good deal. And I need some supplemental lighting anyway.

👍. If you planning to buy..Look at Barrina brand too on amazon. Similar specs to the link I shared but with more reviews. I also read on insta.. someone having good results with Barrina and also read that they removed the film that was on top of the LED’s. Not sure if I am
going to remove the cover on them though.. will decide once I get them and start using.

Good catch. I usually try to buy ones with clear covers so that you can get the most light out of it. Frosted covers reduces the amount of light. Advantage of led is that they naturally want to produce light in one direction -making them very suitable for grow lights. Whereas the diffusers defeat that by spreading the light. I did some approximate measurements few years back with led bulbs with and without the diffusers and the difference was more than 25% if I remember correctly. But it is not really safe to do that for bulbs since it exposes the electrical connections. I think tubes are safer since the connections are hidden. I would not recommend doing that anyway since the tubes/bulbs will be close to plants and potentially a wet area. Much easier to find tubes with clear covers.

Looked at the Barrina tubes. They look good too. Seems they also have some with higher wattage and clear covers. I might get a few of those.