I just noticed your post, Elmer. I don't know why you feel Elizabeth should recognize she's in the minority, or thought she said urban dwellers smell bad, but then I often don't know why you say a lot of things.

Rural living doesn't typically offer entertainment opportunities, population diversity, job opportunities, cultural and sports events, evening events, medical services, and very importantly, good schools for children.

The lack of population diversity bothered me a lot at first. I remember coming out of a supermarket and saying to my husband in dismay, "Everyone looks like me!" I've gotten used to it, but when my kids were growing up I wished they had more familiarity with different races and ethnicities. I'm not a sports fan, and have zero desire to see a pro sports game. But college basketball can be fun, and about once every summer (except this summer) friends and I go to a minor-league baseball game, which I love. Just as much fun as I ever had in Yankee Stadium, plus no one has ever stolen my wallet here.

Plenty of entertainment opportunities for me. I've seen Elton John in concert, as well as Diana Krall, Fiona Apple, Willie Nelson, Bob Dylan, Etta James, Keith Jarrett (okay, we had to go to Carnegie Hall for that one), the Tedeschi Trucks Band, Steve Martin, Norah Jones (not my favorite), and others I can't remember. But even better are the live performances in small venues by people I know. Over the years I've gotten to know many local musicians, mostly jazz. Some have made names for themselves and perform around the world; others have not. But these friendships and intimate performances are precious to me.

I'll concede your point about medical services. Also job opportunities. Our local school district is not great, but others within a 10-mile radius are a lot better.

Elizabeth, your side-by-side boat visits sound idyllic.

Get your water tested by your County extension. I would not drink it at all.

We lived in NY and had a well for 45 yrs. I would have our well tested once a year. A few times it came back with bad readings. The County would tell us to chlorinate the well. Our well was only 100 ft deep.The water tests showed the water was contaminated with E.Coli and very high nitrates. This could be caused by horses. Our area was a big horse area.

After this happened we had Culligan install a RO water tank under our kitchen sink. That was our drinking water and cooking water. When we were selling our house, we knew the new buyers would test the well, so we had it chlorinated two weeks before the inspection.

Elmer, we lived in an area close to NYC. Westchester County, NY. Pocantico Hills, NY. Home to the Rockefellers, Martha Stewart, Mario Cuomo, Clintons, Letterman and many other famous people. The area is 1 acre zoned as minimum. We had two acres but only lived 40 minutes from the City. Large estates, horse farms.

The whole area is on wells. We certainly didn't live in a rural area.

Alisande, you need to get your well tested and take the proper precautions. The chlorination of wells is gone after a week and the water is safe. The County will ask you to test the water after a week. They will let you know when it is safe to drink.

If you can afford it, install a Culligan RO system under your kitchen sink. Use that for drinking/cooking. It provides pure water and will remove everything. It is not a regular water filter. Its worth every penny.

Do not drink your tap water!

Jane

"We certainly didn't live in a rural area."

Then, jane, I'm not sure the conversation pertains much to you and what you've described as a commutable suburb of NY city. Or have I misunderstood?

Geeze, I hope your well issue is taken care of soon. We also live in an old farmhouse...182 years old and have the original well that supplied water to the whole town for the fee of a dollar a year. I think there were two other wells at different spots. It's a very deep well lined with limestone and was covered up when we bought this place 37 years ago. We uncovered it and installed a pump and use it to fill our koi ponds and to water the garden and flowers which we really need this year as we're in a severe drought. It's ironic since nearby counties have had floods with five /six inches of rain while we get none.

I am not fond of rural living. I lived for three years out in the country beside a gorgeous lake and hated it. The schools were inferior, there were no neighbors or kids for my kids to play with and we were robbed in broad daylight by some local punks who were caught doing it. And we had to drive for miles to get anything

That said although I adore NYC, I don't think I could live there with the noise and so many people but it would be fun for a young person. So much to do.

I think I have the best place because I do have the old house and 1/2 acre which is pretty private on a corner lot and my yard is like forest. I have at least eight supermarkets within five minutes, four hospitals , doctor two miles away, dentist three miles, Aldi a half-mile.

Thank you, Jane. I arranged with the Extension Office to pick up a water test kit. I think our well is 400 ft. deep. I'll be beyond interested to see what the test reveals.

And thanks, Grapefruit. Grapefruits, by the way, are one of the few things I miss about winter. :-) Lily's post reminds me of something I forgot to add to mine: Everything is a trade-off. When a decision is made, something has to be sacrificed. You might sacrifice something you absolutely don't want, which makes the decision easy. But some decisions are harder. We can just hope that everyone lives in their happy place.

My grandmother had a saying: "Everyone to their own taste," said the woman as she kissed the cow.

Alisande - my paternal grandmother said that as well😃

Might've missed this because I skimmed many of the replies, but did you do the 'burn test'? Was it definitely animal hair?

Because mold/fungi can form filaments that resemble fur or hair, and some insulation materials are fibrous as well.

We have air pipes that go from our bathroom and kitchen up through the roof to allow the water to drain properly - forgot what they're called, but hubby has told me horror stories of other places he's lived where vermin got down into those. Wondering if there's any way that might be involved?

Good idea about the Extension Office!

I live in a suburb in the US (and I'm currently "stuck" here thanks to Covid). I live in Zone 1 London in the UK, and in a medium-sized city in continental Europe. I love all three options, but if I had my druthers, I'd be in a city full-time. I love NYC and have toyed with moving there since I was a kid - just have never done it.

That said, NYC isn't "elder friendly" - watching older folks navigate the streets, subways, shops, is sometimes frightening because they're slower -- and in NYC, speed and movement and hurriedness is a t.h.i.n.g. European cities are much more elder friendly, with free transit passes and generally more options for transit, assistance, and (free) healthcare.

"We have air pipes that go from our bathroom and kitchen up through the roof to allow the water to drain properly - forgot what they're called"

Those are called vent stacks. Water can't flow in a sealed drain pipe and that's why they're needed. Air vents for drain pipes are a standard requirement of indoor drains of any kind, anywhere. They're on the roof because whether the structure is connected to a sewer in the street or a septic tank, sewage gases get exhausted through these vents and they're both stinky and flammable.

I'm curious, hot rod, where in Europe you have a place. If you don't want to publicize it (and if messaging isn't working), would you be comfortable telling me by email - snidelywhiplash24 at zzzzyahoozz.com. Use the @ and remove the z's in the domain, of course, to reveal the well known name. Done here so I'm not attacked by bots. I'll reciprocate in kind with similar info. Thanks.

Anyone else is welcome to use that email address too if you'd like to contact me.

Carolb, I did the burn test and it did smell like hair to me, although the sample was so small I felt I had to get close and that resulted in inhaling the smoke--not good! I used to think of myself as fairly capable, but the pandemic and things that have happened during this period have changed that.

I'm off to pick up the water test kit and then a curbside grocery pickup. I'm rewarding myself with a watermelon. (I'll give half to my son's family.)

I'm not knocking rural living, but know that Alisande started out as a NYC girl and misses many aspects of a city, including a balance to the, er, 'provincial'attitudes of neighbors. (See Lily's post.) IME many rural areas do not readily accept diversity other than the leeway accorded oddities of the 'born here' population.

We chose a 'middle ground'. My DH and I live on an acre 30 miles north of Chicago. It's safe. Some properties are a little smaller; some much larger. It's quiet. The small city has excellent services; no need for a well... or a HOA, thanks to building codes and other regulations. There are plentiful choices for schools, medical, other needs...especially as we age. It's not 'city'. It's not 'rural'. It's barely 'suburban'.

A friend from Alabama mentioned something about those vent stacks this week that I had never considered. He has a lot of frogs among other things and he has had to enclose the end of his vent stacks because the tree frogs will enter through them then show up in the stool. Knowing snakes can climb some things it made me wonder if this is why the stories about snakes in stools actually happen.

By "stool" do you mean toilet?

Good question, Elizabeth. Perhaps it's a regional thing.

I did love NYC, but I don't actively miss it. Most of all I'm glad I lived the city life as fully as I did. As a teenager I hung out in Greenwich Village a lot (and that's where we lived when I was little), and in my 20s I had a dream job at Lincoln Center My husband and I lived in Midtown. I still think of the city as my hometown, in a way, but I moved on, and I never wished I could move back.

I remember one visit we made when my in-laws, who lived in Bermuda, were staying at the Waldorf. This was a long time ago, 1977 I think. I remember three things most vividly: Crossing the crowded street with my two daughters, ages 4 and 2, the 4-year-old asking me why we couldn't do "stop, look, and listen;" the ridiculous price of a grilled cheese sandwich from room service; and the blissful feeling of cool grass under my bare feet when we got home.

You can call it anything you want porcelain god comes easily to my mind but it is still the thing that you put what came in one end and goes out the other.

It's not a matter of calling it what you want, it was a word many didn't understand. It's not a word I've heard used that way.

For me, stool is what you put into it. As in, when the doctor wants you to submit a stool sample.

I figured it out 😉

Thanks elmer. Another difference is in some parts of the world the bathroom is called the toilet. I don't think many would consider using it as is.

What ever, there is no route back from a vent pipe to your faucet. They are totally different parts of the plumbing system. Vent pipes are on the waste part of your plumbing system. They are there to equalize pressure. If you are getting frogs in your toilet they have to be following the waste drain past the u bend back into the toilet bowl. Probably more than one U bend but not a problem for a frog or even a snake. But no access to the faucet system. None. Think, water falls out of your faucet and goes down the drain. The drain is not connected to your faucet. The drain is connected to the vent pipes. The faucet is under pressure due to not being connected to a vent.

Patriciae I am sorry that I mentioned it. I intended it only as some information about the stand pipes that elmer mentioned. Either here or on HT last month someone mentioned snakes appearing in that small pool of water. Just an explanation of what could have happened.

No problem Maifleur. Most people have no idea the route their water takes. In this situation I would bring someone in to figure out what is going on. This is a situation that cries for professional help. You really cant fix this yourself nor should you try. It is too serious an issue. The possibilities are so potentially serious. Get a well person in asap.

I have heard a toilet referred to as a stool. My dad was in construction and he always called it a stool, as did our builder when we had a home built years ago. I just now googled and found that a toilet has been called a stool for hundreds of years, hence the use of "stool" for fecal matter. ;)

Alisande, I hope you get to the bottom of this problem quickly!!

So Susan, what does your well look like when you peer down it? Ours is so narrow with the limestone sides, I can't imagine how small a person must have been to build it. We've never had it tested and of course have city water and sewer but I imagine the water is purer than our PA water company's product which has so many chemicals in it that it would kill my koi.

I just adore NYC and think it would be so great to live there as a young person. It's overwhelming to visit in "normal" times and stop with the pedestrians at red lights and then when the light change, it's like a herd of cattle racing across the street. I always feel safe there and I so love Central Park, and Bryant and Lafayette. Almost my favorite now is the Highline. Such a beautiful place to walk and observe the city below. The car honking does tend to get on your nerves and the darkness of the streets even on a sunny day when the sun is behind the tall buildings. It's so much fun to visit and I hope that when normal returns, my daughter and I will return.

Update: No exciting news to report, but this is what has been going on . . . I picked up the water test kit and followed the instructions. Once the water is drawn it has to be kept cold, so you do the draw just before leaving the house to go to the Post Office. The kit comes in a Styrofoam cooler, with bags for ice. I had a couple of older ice packs, so I used those. It had to be shipped overnight Express from the Post Office. I got it there on time, filled out the form, and paid the $40 postage.

Two days later I got a call from the laboratory. "I have bad news for you," the woman said. Oh, no, I thought, my water must be in terrible shape! No, the bad news was that the test kit arrived a day late. They're sending me another, and we'll have to start all over again.

Lily, I have no idea what my well looks like inside. There's no way to look in it. The well guy, who said he'd stop by "sometime next week" has not shown up yet. I hope you'll get to visit New York someday soon.

Not an encouraging update. Sorry to hear this.

We take our water to a nearby university for testing. Is there no such thing in your area? What's to say the next sample won't be a day late? At $40 a shot!

Can you use FedEx instead of USPS?

It appears that it is time for you to find another well person. You are apparently not important enough now that he has dug your well. The ones my husband's cousins use do annual checks including some preliminary chemical testing for E.coli. Yes there is a charge but for a couple it has prevented some very serious problems.

I spoke too soon, as the well guys (neither of whom wore a mask, by the way) arrived later in the morning. The well cap was secure; nothing could have gotten in there. However, they found an opportunity for something to get into the water line from the basement. It's in the line that runs from the well to the water tank.

So here's the situation now: If there's bacteria in the water it will need to be shocked with chlorine at a cost of around $225. My bigger concern, as I've mentioned, is exposure to chlorine fumes.

I asked the well guys what they would do if the water tests clean. They said they wouldn't need to shock, but they'd fix the problem in the basement and install something in the pipe to prevent it happening again. They'll do this anyway, even if they have to shock the well.

So now I have to decide if I want to invest $50 (plus $40 postage) in the water test in the hope that the results will be clean and we can avoid shocking the well. The well guys think it's unlikely that it'll test clean, but if there's a chance I can avoid dealing with the chlorine I'm probably inclined to take it.

The Post Office is refunding my $40. If I decide to run the test again I'll check out the FedEx option.

We have two universities an hour away, but neither does water testing. Penn State has many satellites (I used to work at one of them), but testing takes place only at Main Campus, 170 miles away. An independent testing service offers water testing, but it costs $134. I know Penn State is reliable.

I'm not sure you have much of a choice. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't spend $100+ to see if I need to do something else that costs $200. That makes the cost higher than just spending the $200 and being done with it.

From another perspective, there could be other dangerous substances in the well. Maybe it's better to not connect the two steps and instead consider the testing and the well treatment as two separate and unrelated things that each need to be done. Especially if no well servicing has been done lately. In addition to any recommended work in the water line between the well and your faucets.

Good luck.

I might be inclined to have the water tank in the basement replaced unless there is some way to clean and flush it.

Alisande, I’m inclined to agree with Elmer; and I would consider shocking the well too. The end result will leave you with the best case scenario in the end and after such a scare, that would be the goal for me. That said, have you considered having an osmosis kit installed under your kitchen sink? My DD & SIL are on well too and have one. I’ve been buying bottled water for years thinking that would be too expensive to install but I recently discovered that it’s really not! Depending on the kind of filter you get you’re only looking at maybe 3-500 dollars and that would ensure no matter what you’re drinking clean water. I’m working through a list of projects to get done before winter and have add that one for sure.

Why would you shock the well when the problem occurs later on in the system? Is there a storage tank for fresh water? That would be contaminated as would all the pipes thereafter. And the water heater. If the water did not test well after repairs, I would consider shocking the well but only if that was unavoidable.

It seems to me that it is likely wise to be testing the well water periodically since there have been instances in various areas of contaminated ground water contaminating wells - chemicals (farm as well as industrial) as well as pathogenic bacteria.

I would bite the bullet and get the water tested along with making the repairs.

Farms and industry have never been a concern because we're not close enough to either. When we had the soyfoods business and our water was tested regularly, it was always fine. However, it's very likely I'll get the well shocked. I just want to do a little research first so I'm better able to deal with it when the time comes.

I'm sure I sound overly cautious. But the genetic mutation runs in my mother's family, and in addition to her early death, my three female first cousins (all daughters of my mother's sisters) died of liver-related causes. I really do have to be careful.

I'd have the water tested. that will tell you what is in it as a result of whatever got in there to cause the hair / matting. I'd want to know.

I haven't read the entire post, but want to say one thing. We have a problem-toilet that stops flushing every so often, because thread-like matted roots are finding their way into the pipe, looking for water. (They found it!) We've decided we'll have to take the bushes near it out and hope they have been the problem, and not our trees. I wish you well in your quest.

sjerin, It usually is the tree roots.

Yes, we do have one J Maple fairly close, but the hedge is even closer. But we're doing nothing until the bad and hot air subside.

Though expensive and a mess replacing an old sewer line that is not impenetrable to root damage is always a good thing to do. If roots can get in sewage can get out and you are contaminating the local surface water table. Depressing I know but necessary. They make a heavy product that is glued at any joint that fixes that.

sjerin first you need to find out how deep your sewer is before assessing blame. Part of my sewer collapsed in June. Found out that it was 14 feet down. More modern methods are great but not certain that the piping that they used is hard enough to keep roots out for more than 10-15 years. Three deep holes and it was done. They no longer need for most replacements to dig out all of the pipe if only one place collapsed.

In my experiences, I see that wells are located on one side of a residence and the septic/sewer are on the other to avoid any ground water contamination.

ETA: I was referring to the OP

If sjerin lives in sj (San Jose), it's unlikely she has either a well or a septic tank.

The fact that she's describing it as a sewer line may exclude the septic tank possibility anyway.

No septic tank, no well, just a sewer line connected to the city's main, which section was replaced last year. The section under our tree was not replaced...yet. We do have very large street trees in my neighborhood but i don't think those are the roots responsible. I do forget to water the bushes as they are so old.

Eta, Allison, sorry for the hijack!

sjerin tree roots depending on the type of tree can extend 50-100 ft away from the tree and half again as deep or more. Edited to add that half again is an exaggeration but 9+ feet is not unknown and road cuts in this area show some trees extending their roots much further than that.

https://deepgreenpermaculture.com/2019/07/22/how-far-do-large-tree-roots-extend/

My yard has enormous trees everywhere, some over 100 years old and we have a contract with the water company to get a discount when the sewer pipe needs to be cleaned of tree roots. We begin to notice when the wash machine empties out , we hear gurgling in the kitchen sink and powder room toilet. I knew this before I moved here 37 years ago. We visited one day when the rotor rooter guy was there. I told the previous owner, I was a tree lover married to a forester and the enormous tree will stay.

Update: I contacted a water scientist from Penn State, and he was very helpful. He hasn't seen the faucet debris, but he thinks some of the "hair" might have come from insulation, which is spilling out of the large pipe that houses the pipe that carries water from the well to the water tank.

His recommendation is to have the water tested before I do anything. He gave me a list of labs in the state, and three of them are within driving distance so i can easily get water samples to them within the 30-hour window, and save myself some of the cost of postage besides. If the tests show no bacteria, I can do nothing. If the water is positive for bacteria, I could order the shock chlorination. But if I want to avoid chlorine, I could instead have a whole-house UV light filter installed. I'm going to explore that possibility tomorrow.

Alisande, I'm glad to hear you are making progress and I hope a solution is low cost and coming soon!!

I meant to add that one way or another of course we'll fix the issue in the basement.

Oh goodness, I had no idea that a problem like that could happen! I'm in the country with a well and a septic tank( new in the past 4 years) . Good advice to get the water checked as I would want to know what I had been drinking. I have a well pit and my husband used to put straw down in it in the winter so I assumed there was no way that anything could get into the pipes. My water was tested about 7 years ago and had planned to do it again this spring but then COVID happened and I didn't get to it. Hope yours is a quick and low cost solution!