That was interesting to learn about PT. Wow! The more I learn, the more I learn how much I don't know! Anyhow,... in our township the permit for plumbing is only $20 for each fixture that you're moving/adding. So, in our case it was $60 for this bathroom- one for the shower, one for the sink, and one for the new furnace room drain. Cheap, cheap, cheap, for the peace of mind it provides. When the inspector comes out, my DH will either get confirmation that he did everything right or a free lesson/advice on what he needs to correct! Our experience with all the inspectors has been so positive- We were able to prevent a potential catastrophe when building our deck a few years ago. Though it pissed me off at the time that we had to have our septic tank dug down to and get inspected (is our township's way of insuring things get upgraded to code as the years go by), it turned out to be a good thing. The previous owners had actually just covered up a broken cement slab cover with plywood! Not only was that under 5 feet of soil- but it blocked access from the manhole (What were they thinking!!!), so we would have been unable to get the tank pumped. It was a large tank with only one manhole, so we had another manhole slab made with reinforced concrete (original slabs were not reinforced which I guess is why they broke in the first place), so that now the septic tank can be accessed at both ends. Long story, but we often speculate what might have happened if we'd had a septic back-up or if the slab had completely broken and 5 ft long cement manhole and all had fallen into the tank with all that soil in the middle of a rainy November! Here is another pic showing that we had to dig the hole larger as original drain plumbing was a convoluted collection of 45 degree pieces, and at 1 1/2" not up to code anyways! So, DH has to access the 3" waste pipe further back. He suggest that you guys check out some DIY books on plumbing and your local municipality on its specific plumbing code. You can draw up your plans and go and ask them to check it out for you- that won't cost anything.

You can be creative with the building department regarding some permits. As long as they don't know your real intent.. It's not uncommon to have water and electricity, or even a bathroom in a "detached workshop". What is your plan for heat? What is the climate? You don't want plumbing on outside walls. Will you have a dedicated circuit panel for the "detached workshop"? Get electrical, and plumbing all roughed in. Get an inspection. Good with the City, and then finish your detached workshop into the apartment. What you want to avoid is going through all this work, the city getting tipped off and having zero permits for anything. Then there's a good chance they'll make you tear the walls open to inspect after the fact. Also, an oven is what makes a space into an apartment. Building and planning departments get REALLY hung up on an oven in more than one room. So you would not want any indication given by the electrical that an oven is going in. That wouldn't be wired in until after inspection. I understand your position though, the less the city knows the better. I understand it quite well.

They had to remove the tile under the vinyl under the plank in my basement (if I had known the floor guys were installing the plank on top of a vinyl tile which was on top of tile I would have had them stop and remove the two layers that were there before they put the plank in!), the lower 24" of drywall, all the doors in the basement, the 3rd bathroom vanity, and the carpet in the family room area and 3rd bedroom/office/craft space when there was a pipe blockage - one small pair of child sized socks somehow managed to get flushed down the toilet in the kids' bathroom - that ended up sending water from elsewhere in the house (master bath/toilet/sink and kitchen sink water) up through the laundry standpipe in the laundry room which backs up to one of the walls down in our furnace room in such a quantity that the floor drain out of the house to the main sewer line couldn't handle it all and it wasn't 'clean' or 'gray' water. When the water heater suddenly turned into a geyser-like fountain we were able to shut it off pretty quickly and it was clean water so after mopping and wet-vacuuming plus a few days with dehumidifiers along with those giant noisy fans saved us the pain of having the newly installed drywall redone! The basement water damage we were able to file a homeowners claim on, one thing people should note is that they have the duty to mitigate the damages as soon as they notice a problem - if that means calling the remediation company first and THEN your insurer, that's how you need to do it. If you call about possibly making a claim, even if you don't end up doing so, it goes on your file because the insurer will be looking for ways to minimize how much they have to pay out on future claims. If you ask about water damage claims, but ultimately don't go forward on that claim, but down the road you have water damage from a different issue that might be difficult to get your insurer to pay out on too - they look for reasons to deny claims, they make much of their money paying out out less than they take in with premiums and deductibles. Mold is a non-covered issue (usually) if it's due to lack of maintenance or failure to address the issue at the time and where it started. They don't cover sewer main backups that originate outside of your home and the loss must be sudden and unexpected. How do I know all this? Well...The basement. :P I've probably driven the poor workers a bit mad with all the moisture readings I've asked them to take just to be sure (I know it's dry but the irrational part of me wants to be totally certainly 100% truly sure of it!) Now we're just waiting on the flooring to come in and once that's installed the whole project will be finished. At least we don't have problems with the windows down there (yet!) and they're above grade. There's good drainage away from the house outside, all we need to do is avoid further socks being flushed down the toilet! We're still not quite certain how that happened but at this point it's sort of moot and the damage done.

@DC Well based on your posting history on Houzz, that's exactly the type of response I'd expect. Since you've been on Houzz, you've started 8 discussions asking for help. How many discussions have you contributed to, to offer advice or assistance to others? Exactly ZERO. So this response would be in keeping with you contributing exactly NOTHING to the Houzz forums. Well, except for a petty and childish attitude because someone went slightly off topic. It actually was related to wall hung toilets and related to Joseph's comment that: "A properly wall mount toilet isn't coming down from the weight of even the heaviest person. Not even if they jump up and down." I actually found your post on Terry's forum because I've used that forum in the past and I went there to see if they had any guidance to share with you on here. Or at the very least point you toward that forum. It's too bad that you're so entitled, self-centered, childish and petty that you can't even bring yourself to share what you've learned. Congratulations, your track record of ZERO positive contributions to Houzz remains at ZERO. That's certainly something to take pride in.