"not wearing a mask does not make a person selfish, or inconsiderate."

No? You can't be serious.

Most such encounters are with overly propagandized non thinkers who think they're making a political statement.

Few people are truly unable to wear a mask but for those who can't, they need to stay away from other people. Those who don't wear a mask or avoid others are truly selfish and inconsiderate. Behavior like that, life threatening to others, will make kind people angry.

I have a friend that is so claustrophobic that she cannot put on a mask or she starts to freak out. So, now she cannot go anywhere because masks are required everywhere. I just feel like that if you see someone without a mask, just keep your distance, we are supposed to do that anyway! What's the big deal!?

"What's the big deal!?"

What if someone walked into a crowded park and started shooting a gun. Not necessarily at people, but at trees, into the air, into the ground, but all the same endangering the lives of others. Is that okay or a big deal?

Someone walking around without a mask is endangering the lives of others. If she can't overcome her claustrophobia (which sounds more than a bit odd to me but I'll accept the comment with extreme skepticism), she needs to stay home. It's her problem, not one others need to accept and deal with.

Preventing the virus from jumping from person to person is the big deal. That said, I am truly sorry for your friend. I hope you can help her -- maybe a walk in a park, or other outdoor setting?

. I love Rusty's posts, but respectfully disagree with this one. There may be a tiny handful that don't mask for a valid reason, they should stay home, like I am doing. The vast majority are not masking because they don't want to, a political statement.

Covid kills. Especially the old, like me. How is it kind that I get to die because someone didn't mask?

BTW, I was curious and followed the Doug Archer link and looked at the post on FB, there are some interesting responses to what he said. When one person objected, Doug, the author of the 'kindness' post above led out this time with an entirely different schtick: " it is not your place nor is it mine to decide if these are weak excuses or not. The fact that there are so many false and inaccurate reporting about this whole thing. That anyone with Half a brain can see something isn't right about the whole thing. "

I think those who at this late date are actually questioning the existence of the pandemic itself are in my view, nut cases.

If you read the comments to that post on facebook, you will find that there are many people (perhaps most of those commenting) who think that they have a right not to wear a mask and that if you are immune compromised, then you are the one who should stay at home. This is what being kind means to them; i.e., you must be kind to them, but they don't have to be kind to you or to anyone else.

That's why I think it is more important to be considerate and not put others' health in jeopardy.

I do avoid stores where I think people may not be wearing masks and will only go to ones that require masks. My brother had 22 lymph nodes removed when he had cancer surgery, and his doctor told him that his immune system is now compromised because of that. We can go to stores where everyone is required to wear masks, however.

A headline today has some actress claiming she got COVID from one time now wearing a mask. How could anyone ever possibly know WHO they got this from. It is HIGHLY unlikely but possible to get it anytime you breathe air someone else with it breathed out. Tracing it is a CRAP SHOOT at best. Judging why another does not act as you prefer went out with Clinton and Lewinsky. Like it or not we are all living in a time when the only discernible value is CHOICE..and it's unfortunate when you don't care for another's or are affected by it. Oh ya we also think a choice that doesn't affect any one else is a real thing. hahahahaha

If I had PTSD, was recovering from smoke inhalation, or unable to wear a mask due to grief, I would stay home and order my groceries and essential items online. I wouldn't put others at risk. Friends, family and neighbors are generally kind enough to help folks with genuine issues out in order to protect others in the community. Most of the mask-less are selfish and/or making a political statement.

Both sides of this issue are at fault. What I have observed when out is bad behaviour on either side of this issue. Those who wear their masks, who do not wear them properly. What good is it to wear a mask but continuously touch your face and adjust your mask then touch things. Walk, stand closer then the 6 foot rule. Walk the wrong way down every single aisle. Then judge people, and feel perfectly justified in commenting berating and being snide to others. (personal experience) Pass of aggressively or outright bullying. On the other side, if you have no actual medical reason not to wear a mask why not just wear the mask. Keep your hands away from your face and it is not going to hurt you. Currently the greater good means not wearing a mask means you should not be in groups of people Things are never going to get better until the infection finally gets under control, that is not going to happen until people stop passing this around.

Wear the mask correctly limit your contact with others, limit gatherings, follow the rules bylaws and guidelines . If you feel someone is not doing things right avoid them. Your negative words and actions are not ever going to change anyone else's behaviour, you can only change your own behaviour and actions. Just because you "think" you are in the right does not mean you are justified in making snide comments, it is ugly behaviour and only leads to bad feeling on both sides. I don't think kindness is the right word, but extending a bit of grace to someone you think is in the wrong makes you stronger for it.

I've never seen anyone deride anyone else for not wearing a mask, and I certainly do not do this myself, as I am well aware that this will do nothing to change someone else's behavior. I have a feeling that people who do criticize others for not wearing masks are very much in the minority and/or live in a place where most people are not obeying rules and guidelines, which would be frustrating.

Fortunately, where I live and have been, most people have been compliant with the rules, but then I haven't been to the beach lately.

I could see Elmer going around yelling at people for not wearing a mask and telling them they are going to kill us. I am 100% certain he is guilty of doing this! That is just how he comes across on these forums!

I'm just thankful that I can wear a mask and not have a panic attack or asthma attack!

I think there is a huge difference between snide put downs or criticisms, and firmly requesting that another wear a mask. There have been several threads here where tradesmen or housekeepers arrived without a mask but put one on when asked by the homeowner. And I think it is OK to ask.

I could see Elmer going around yelling at people for not wearing a mask and telling them they are going to kill us. I am 100% certain he is guilty of doing this!

I disagree. Those kinds of people are often over in hot topics, he never goes there. He merely disagreed with your post, as did I.

And I don't think instigating an argument over a member who voiced an opinion and made no personal attack is appropriate behavior for you either.

Great post Rusty! Another one I've seen recently is to shame people for going out in public with allergies, the one doing the shaming assumes that the person that is sneezing has a contagious illness.

I cannot wear a N-95 mask, only a regular one. When the hospital I worked at tried to fit me for a N-95 mask (so I could work with tuberculosis patients) my O2 sats fell to low to be safe.

N-95s do restrict your breathing. Most employers subject to OSHA have to do respirator fit tests for people who want/need to wear an N-95.

They are a whole different thing than a cloth or paper mask though. I highly doubt the vast majority of people not wearing a mask in public have an O2 sat problem.

It's funny, because up until this little pandemic thing, I knew people with allergies and asthma who wanted to wear a mask to protect against allergens and whatnot triggering breathing problems. Now all of a sudden those same people can't wear a mask because they - allegedly - can't breathe in one.

Masks actually work really well, but only if everyone wears them. Too many people think they are special and just don't want to, for whatever reason.

If you can't wear a mask, then stay out of indoor or enclosed spaces unless it's an emergency. You not wearing a mask for any reason, even sympathetic ones, puts me at risk.

I am just glad I am not the “mask enforcer”. Stores here just started requiring them. There was a huge sign at the Walmart entrance, but an older man thought he could still just walk in there without. The also older man enforcing the masks had a hard time. He was really nice, telling the guy to go find something in the car to cover his face. The non mask wearing one was not of the friendly kind. Last week, he just had to stand there counting the people. And he probably didn’t get a raise to deal with this all day.

I wore masks when I lived in Texas and had to work in the fields to protect me against allergens that caused severe allergy attacks, and I could breathe much better with the masks than without them. I don't have asthma, and so I don't know about that, however.

I have the utmost empathy for your friend with claustrophobia. We cannot know the things others have lived through - children, especially, are subjected to horrendous treatment sometimes, which has lifelong consequences for them. Not everyone can be "cured" of trauma, but learn to live with the effects and ameliorate them as much as possible. For her, not wearing a mask is likely a coping mechanism - avoiding things that trigger her trauma (if that's what it is).

But developing coping strategies during this pandemic has to include avoiding places where a mask is required, for her own and others' safety. It's sad if she cannot go anywhere, but if she and others refuse to wear a mask they are preventing others from going anywhere if they are vulnerable themselves. And quite frankly, if she dies from the virus, she's not going anywhere again.

If you feel it's no big deal, then I'm assuming you're keeping her company and trying to help her.

I was in a store the other day that required everyone to wear a mask...big sign out front. And this guy ... looked to be in his 70s ... was not wearing one. I asked him, from a distance, "No mask?" At first it looked like he was going to give me a snide remark and then just said, "I left it in the car." I walked away. Point made. I don't think asking someone is "unkind". Certainly more kind than making accusations or accusing them or whatever.

I asked the woman at the bank with my safe deposit key to walk away while I signed and to say 6 feet away from me. I asked nicely. She said she didn't have to wear a mask due to medical issues. I said I couldn't be near her because of my medical issues. No hurt feelings either way.

The anti-maskers are deliberately wearing crocheted, and other loosely-woven masks as a protest. If they can bother putting on a deliberate in-your-face protest mask, why can't they be just a teeny bit respectful and wear a proper one?

I have asthma. If I can wear a mask, so can you who have a "health issue". It doesn't make it harder to breathe. But if that's really truly true, get a face shield!

I'm sure there are instances it's hard to do (such as PTSD), but then, there have been so many accommodations made. Have it delivered to you curbside. Have a family member pick it up for you. Get it delivered. Everyone is adjusting, so you can too.

Too bad people in charge of mask policy don't understand the exceptions for medical reasons under the ADA, for customers and employees. Your bank should not expose their customers or other employees to an unmasked employee. The bank only has to make a reasonable accommodation for that employee, but ONLY if that accommodation does not put the other employees and customers at risk (and a few other reasons). I would be changing banks.

good info here:

https://www.fisherphillips.com/resources-alerts-businesses-that-mandate-masks-for-employees-and

Jasdip, it's too bad that pretty soon we're only going to be able to wear "approved" masks, maybe undergo inspections before being allowed into businesses because of a few jerks who think they are cute wearing ineffective masks. I wish stores would post signs that any mask deemed by their employees as being inappropriate for safety will be denied entry into in the store.Are stores all going to have to hire armed guards to protect other employees from these nuts that go off on workers and other customers. My god, what kind of a place have we become?

Very nice summary Olychick. Way too many people are trying to hide behind the ADA and it actually doesn't work in those circumstances.

I have allergies and asthma. I have no problems wearing a cloth or paper mask. I can't tolerate an N-95 though. The only time I can't wear a cloth or paper mask is if I'm having an actual asthma attack. And in that case I'm not perusing the shelves at Wal-Mart!

The asthma excuse, and the ADA excuse, are getting old.

I went back to Facebook and looked up the original that Doug Archer posted. I read some of the comments, not all. There, like here, there are those that agree and those that disagree. As in all things.

I stand firm in my belief that we can only control ourselves and our own actions and reactions. I also stand firm in my knowledge that I feel much better about myself when I can handle situations with kindness and compassion. No way will I ever believe that name calling, shaming, bullying, or threatening will accomplish anything except denigrating one's own self.

Rusty

No way will I ever believe that name calling, shaming, bullying, or threatening will accomplish anything except denigrating one's own self.

I agree, but those are not the only choices. Courteously asking, affirming that one's own life is valuable enough to make those requests, is also a choice. One need not risk death because of the actions or inactions of others, one can be courteous and assertive in one's own behalf, and in the behalf of others.

I'd like to know how pointing out the alternatives, as I have, is shaming or threatening, etc.

"I stand firm in my belief that we can only control ourselves and our own actions"

No, you're overlooking something very important. Other countries have gotten through the worst of the pandemic while our suffering is skyrocketing because their governments took advice from public health professionals and mandated (and enforced) rules for the public good and our governments haven't.

If left to individual choices and decisions as it mostly has been so far (a fallacy of thinking too many Americans hold tight), we'll be where we are and worse as each coming month comes and goes. Indefinitely.

Why is this concept so hard for so many to understand?

"I'd like to know how pointing out the alternatives, as I have, is shaming or threatening, etc."

It's not. Although how they are pointed out could be. That's the whole point. Be kind, considerate, compassionate, thoughtful, friendly, whatever word you prefer, to point out the the alternatives.

Rusty

I'd much rather the police pointed out alternatives, issued citations imposing meaningful fines, and took people to jail who refused to cooperate. AS HAS BEEN DONE IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAT NOW HAVE REDUCED OR ALMOST GONE LEVELS OF INFECTION.

Rusty, start with kindness, yes.

What positive measures could a business take? Posters promoting social responsibility? Periodic broadcasting of encouraging slogans? Free masks and sanitizer at the door? Coupons or free chocolates given to patrons who follow social safety procedures? Coloring books for kids? I'd like to see any/all of that ... but I'd also like to see bouncers at the doors of Lowes and Home Depot, maybe then I'd feel safe shopping there again.

Yes, I have been wearing one of those ineffectual paper medical masks because I can't wear the effectual N-95's. I would say the majority of people that I've seen in stores are also wearing ineffectual paper or cloth masks also.

Citation for the 'ineffectuality' of cloth/paper masks?

Cloth masks and 'surgical' (paper) masks are effective in protecting other people from YOUR potential virus (which you may have absent any symptoms). N95's protect the wearer and others, but are in short supply because hospitals can barely get enough to protect their staffs from being infected by *People Who Got Covid From People Who Won't Mask*.

How do you think other nations have halted the virus by universal masking? A fluke? Do you believe America has a quarter of the cases in the world for some *other* reason? (Well, there is the lack of testing and tracing...and *no plan* from the White House even today, five months into the pandemic.)

The number of people who cannot mask for a genuine medical or emotional reason is *infinitesimal*, according to medical science (and common sense).

The N-95 mask is the only one certified by the CDC to stop particles as small as viruses and even they must be properly fitted to function properly. The others are too porous and gap too much to stop viruses from passing through them.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/

"In the community, masks appeared to be effective with and without hand hygiene, and both together are more protective....community mask use by well people could be beneficial, particularly for COVID-19, where transmission may be pre-symptomatic. "

Patriceny - maybe this comparison will clarify why paper/cloth masks are ineffectual.

Fact - all personal in direct contact with tuberculosis patients are required to wear N-95 mask because hospital paper masks/cloth masks are ineffectual at stopping the bacillus.

So how large in the bacillus? The Mycobacterium tuberculosis bacilli size is 2 um x 0.5 um (micrometer) or in nanometers 2000 nm x 500 nm.

Basic lab math, 1 micrometer = 1000 nanometer

So how big is the Corona virus particle? It is 120 nm (nanometer)

At it's smallest the bacillus is 500nm, significantly larger than the 120nm virus particle. So if the larger bacillus is not stopped by a paper mask then that mask cannot effectively stop a smaller particle from passing through it.

"all personal "

I think you mean "all personnel"

You maybe didn't note that patriceny's citation says "In the community", not "in a tuberculosis patient's room"

I think the only reasonable thing for you to do is not wear a mask and spend as much time in crowded places as possible.

Raye, it's not about 100% blocking of individual virus particle such as needed in hospital infectious ward settings. Those people certainly need serious full-up protection, as you say.

Most of us just need to wash hands, avoid crowds, pay attention to distance, and wear a decent mask. And we need our neighbors to do likewise.

With attention to our own behavior and with the help of our communities, most of us will be able to avoid the infectious care wards.

If both people are wearing masks it's like each is wearing two - which significantly reduces risk and the path the virus has to maneuver to get through them both.

But science deniers will never be convinced by science, so I agree. Go maskless, hang out with other maskless people in non public places and please stay out of the hospital if you get the virus to reduce risk to healthcare workers.

"maybe this comparison will clarify why paper/cloth masks are ineffectual."

"The others are too porous and gap too much to stop viruses from passing through them."

THEN WHY DOES THE CDC (that place, you know, where scientists and really smart people work) RECOMMEND PEOPLE WEAR MASKS?

This is straight from the CDC:

• CDC recommends that people wear cloth face coverings in public settings and when around people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.
• Cloth face coverings may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.
• Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of COVID-19 when they are widely used by people in public settings.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

I'll listen to the CDC - that place where scientists and really smart people work - before I'll ever listen to you, Raye Smith. And I hope others do too.

While I don't agree with Raye, I have lost a lot of respect for the CDC after their hot off the presses release about opening schools, putting politics before our children's health: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/reopening-schools.html

I wonder how much of the CDC's announcement on opening schools is driven by pressure from Trump?

All, I'm sure, but I'm disappointed that the CDC did not stand up to him, these are our children we are talking about.

Some of you'all are just too funny. Either the concept of 120nm is < than 500 nm is to difficult to comprehend or you think that the virus "magically" will chose to not pass through all masks.

Yep I wear my paper mask in public but no, I don't count on it to protect me or anyone else.

Raye, have you even read how the coronavirus is spread? Most of the time it doesn't travel by itself, it travels in droplets. In keeping with Rusty's always-good example, I am being kind here, but I do think that one should do just a smidge of research before alleging a scientific basis for masks being ineffective which is actually not valid.

I know no one who is trying to say a cloth or paper mask is equivalent to an N95. However the science is crystal clear that cloth or paper masks are far far superior to wearing nothing.

That tiny little fact is why many countries are getting infection rates under control, while ours spirals wildly out of control.

I'm a mostly conservative voter, but the science on this is clear. Masks work way better than nothing. Fact.

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

The above link also nicely covers Lucille's point about droplets. Also a fact.

Again, I'm a conservative voter. But science is very clear on this. Masks work, but only if every one wears them.

I wear my seatbelt, but I don't count on the belt alone to protect me. I count on good tires, brakes, and other mechanical systems, modern air bags, and me and the rest of the community following the rules of the road to keep all of us safe.

I don't count on my mask alone to protect me ...