Thanks, everyone! :-) This conversion just took me so much by surprise that I had to share it! It's not often that I find other gardeners agreeable to the science I speak about. I think we've all been there... perhaps when we first began looking for the ingredients that we needed... and we found so many confusing looks and stumped store clerks staring at us like we'd grown a third eye in the middle of our foreheads! "Pine bark? Why on earth would we need pine bark? And what the heck is turface?" I try not to preach, per se, but I definitely speak my mind when conversing with other growers. The science is very solid, so there's really no need to keep quiet about the realities of container growing. Every aspect we talk about can be validated. But the indignant responses are very real... some folks get supremely put out, literally angry, when I challenge old fashioned methods and misinformation! It's kind of strange how close some people cling to fallacy. What amazes me, I think, is that so few people actually question the gardening industry... but then, a lot of folks are not that serious about growing, and only want to have a few pretty posies on their porches every summer... or they just want to grow a few tomatoes or an herb or two. It does take a more serious grower, I suppose, to look deeper into what makes plants "tick". Calistoga Al, I can only imagine the giant can of worms you'd open if you blurted out the truth regarding the industry and what they offer! I'm not saying that all bagged mixes are awful or completely useless, some having their place in certain circumstances... but I can just imagine the reaction from a large garden club, if you stood up and tried to make a case for a more durable, free draining medium... or tried to explain the physics of water moving through soil in a container environment... or tried to dispel the many myths that abound! So many people have been growing a certain way for so long, and have held beliefs for so long... it would be certain chaos to expose bagged soils for what they are! :-) Mike, science and truth will only prevail if people are open and accepting of new ideas. We know the science to be logical, and we've seen the evidence up close and personal... but when we encounter the type of person that thinks there's nothing further they can learn, the type of person that closes themselves off to the new or different, getting them to listen can be quite the chore! Sometimes folks need to discover things on their own... so we keep pointing them in the direction of truth and science... and we hope they'll think about it, mull it over, and maybe give it a try for themselves. You notice that it's always those people who haven't tried new ideas that have negative things to say about them... or people who haven't quite gotten the idea right, but won't ask for help... and so, they only have negative things to say. It's not even necessary to use the new ideas... but to acknowledge that there's more than one way to do something... that the facts add up! Anyway... it's time to "make the donuts"... again! Another day, another dollar, as they say! Happy Gardening to Everyone! :-)

"Hi Anthem, and Happy 4th!" Same to you. "You don't know how much money I have. I have a lot." Good for you. All relative I guess. Glad you have a lot, buf if you have a lot, why do you fret over supporting other people ? If you have a "lot" why don't you give away most of it to the beggars with sores that seem to be so important to you ? Why are you asking others to forgo their desires when you yourself have "a lot" ? "You don't know what kind of house I can afford." You are correct. Nor did I ask or care to really know. "Maybe nicer than yours!" To each their own. Again subjective, but I seriously doubt it. "My reasoning has nothing to do with "libertarian" principles." Good. "You don't sound like a libertarian BTW you sound like a Republican" OK. . . So what difference does what I sound like ? I never said I was a libertarian, democrat, or Republican. What relevance does my political leanings have ? "...if only these terms weren't so boring and narrow. I'm an unaffiliated voter myself." Good for you, but I fail to see why that has any relevance or why you it enters this discussion. "I think you lack imagination. I don't believe humans cause global warming but I do believe in finite resources." Finite resources, yes. Humans don't cause global warming ? You're kidding right ? Maybe not directly but absolutely indirectly. Without humans, there wouldn't be anywhere near the carbon footprint that we have now. "My objection to the OPs post wasn't actually related to his elaborate (and evidently dysfunctional) wiring scheme, but to his personal environmental footprint. Try really hard to imagine the moment when technology development stops keeping up with rampant overconsumption of non-replenishable resources." rileysmom, your stated immoral objections have been noted before. It appears that anyone who spends (or apparently capable of spending) more than what you think is a reasonable amount is immoral - and that you feel the need to tell others that their are needy people in the world. I'm not sure it has to do with environmental footprint either as you don't really know his environmental/carbon foot print and/or otherwise. But seriously I don't see your concern for environmental footprint as you don't mention it anywhere. You started off as you did before over the fact that someone else spent more than what YOU consider acceptable and called it immoral. Here, let me refresh your memory "I was wondering: does anyone else think the OPs house is practically immoral? If you have enough money for 11 refrigerators (just had to have each and every one of them, huh?)". . . . Now its environmental ? "If he'd added a paragraph or so about using ICF construction (do you know what that is?) I'm quite familiar with ICF. ICF works really well for "simpler" houses and is a nightmare with more complex houses. Complex houses might be immoral to you, so that would preclude that issue for you though, right? Besides there are quite a few diverging opinions on using concrete and by extension ICF. While less wood is used, it isn't any more energy efficient than a well built/insulated house. I think the discussion of "green" revolves more around energy efficiency than the actual material being used. It's just that people choose to use insulated concrete forms because its cheaper to attain the same level of energy efficiency than its counterpart - but again with significant drawbacks (especially when it comes to flexibility or automation, which the original poster did do (or attempt to do)). "low VOC finishes" low-voc is definitely human healthier, but it remains to be seen if it has any real relevance to environmentally healthier. The majority of low or no voc paint has enough enviro-unfriendly ingredients that no matter what you do it isn't environmentally better. It's just less voc's being emitted into the household. "or even...energy star appliances" I don't know his appliances or items, but usually anyone who is into automation is going to have fairly high-end appliances which almost certainly are "energy star" appliances. By the way, energy star is a MINIMUM standard. It's such a poor standard that I am not even going to get into it. It's meant to establish a minimum standard so that the average consume shopping for a refrigerator isn't going to be ripped off by an energy inefficient refrigerator. Most anyone who spends big bucks on autmation is going to be buying in the subzero, viking, GE monogram, Liebherr type of level which are all well beyond energy star minimum ratings.. . . "for all 11 refrigerators and 4 dishwashers and maybe 2 laundry rooms) I'm sure his megamansion wouldn't have chapped me quite so badly." And that gets back to the basic question - Why does someone doing beyond YOUR levels dictate them being immoral ? People can spend what they want. If you haven't walked a day in their shoes - why are you calling them immoral for building their house ? Hey, you only need one toilet in a house. How many do you have ? Is it immoral for you to put more than one in your house ? It's all relative depending upon where you are coming from. I just don't get where you think everyone who does a bit more than you, or spends more than you, or is less energy efficient as you is "immoral". "Note this has nothing to do with how much it cost to build and how much it is appraised for now." Not what you said earlier. Should I refresh your memory again ? "Well, I do get a laugh out of something I read somewhere at some time...maybe The Economist? predicting that these whopping huge houses eventually will all be subdivided when the gated communities become the gated slums. Probably this subconscious thought prompted my comment about the poor and downtrodden." I really doubt it in our lifetimes or the next. Most of these won't last beyond a generation or two. And even then, it gets much more complicated with property lines. You're more likely to see teardowns than you will of change of use. The reason you see "mansions" (true sense of the word) in the past being used for multi-tenant is in high-density areas. You don't see today's megamansions in high-density areas. you might call them high-density, but even if everyone bred like rabbits and doubled the current population - it wouldn't change suburban america. Perhaps if you increased the population 10 fold, but we're talking many more generations beyond now.

---""Personally, I dont think it is smart financial planning to have your entire life savings in your retirement account." Why not?"" I'd like to clarify the above response. The only exception that I can think of is an emergency account.--- Assuming you are funding your retirement account appropriately to provide adequate retirement income, why would you put additional savings into retirement accounts? Once there, you can't use them easily and without penalty until you are retirement age. No, tax savings from tax-deferred accounts are not inconsequential, but neither is the freedom that comes with having money available to use how when for what you want. I am putting money into a combination of 401k and Roth retirement accounts at a rate which will conservatively provide me with adequate retirement income. This is less than the max--(although well over employer-match). Every thing else goes into ordinary ol' non-tax-deferred investment accounts. It's not really "emergency" money--- i also have 6-month living expense emergency funds in my bank account. But I am in my 30s. Why would I put any money above and beyond what I will need for retirement somewhere that I can't easily reach it for the next 15-20 years? Maybe I'll want to go to grad school and want to use it for tuition. Maybe I'll get married and want to put my husband through school. Or my husband's kids. Maybe I'll want to buy a bigger more expensive house and want to use it for down payment. Or a second vacation and/or investment home. I might want to take a year off work and travel. I might want to take a year off work and be a mommy to a new baby. I might not *want* to take a year off work but be forced to when I'm fired from my current job and it takes me a year to find a new one. I might want start-up money for my own business. I might have a sudden desire for one of those convertible Mercedes two-seaters (is it the SL i think).... I might I might I might. Freedom (and security) is "why not?" (which are the same reasons btw that I'm saving it in the first place rather than simply spending everything above and beyond what I've decided I need to save for retirement)

Well, the great re-use the bucket/soil experiment went well. Very well. I was able to get TWO additional crops of veggies so far, against the advice of many who said to simply junk the soil and start fresh. Mind you, I still haven't tried another pepper in this buckets...that will be the true test. But to get a fall crop of kale/broccoli/cauliflower was so awesome. They grew outstanding. And then, in March, after all the harvest has been done, to get yet another crop of sugar snap peas in the SAME soil? Sweet. I even threw a Zucchini start in one of the smaller buckets just to see and its BOOMING!