Hopefully she isn't a climber or a digger. Our heeler was a climber and an escape artist. No fence would hold her. We put her on a 100 ft overhead cable and she was happy. The cable was from the cable tv company, end of roll that was too short to be used. There were stops at each end so she could not get wrapped around any trees. It was beside the house so she could lay in the garage and extended to the back yard so she could be with the kids when they were out. Her favorite places to lay were on the 1st level of the tree house and in the porch swing.She was such a smart dog and would go in the pine island to do her business. She wasn't a chewer so we used woven nylon rope from the slider on the cable to her collar.

What a sweet sounding dog. Your setup sounds good. I think we want a fence though, for safety with future kids and dogs. We have heavy machinery moving about. Old dogs don't move fast or hear well, and need the protection of a fenced yard or tie up to prevent getting run over with equipment. Currently we have to tie the dogs. Kate doesn't climb, but I don't know if she would jump 5' or not. I could go with 6'.

We had a border collie in the past that was a great jumper and would be over our old 4' fence in a flash every time, dang him. I loved him though. Back then our countryside was less populated and there wasn't the risk of a farm dog loose, now there is great risk with the road traffic, and being a herding dog. When Kate is with the trainer & breeder, she can run the roads with him and a few other collies, while he is on his Gator, traveling down the road a mile to work his large cow/calf herd.

A fence will also keep our small herd of cows and feeder cattle out of our yard when they escape, lol.

I just priced several fence options and they run about $2500 to $3500, all included parts, depending on whether its 5' or 6' tall. This would be a DIY project.

OH my Cyn, what a memory. Our neighbor down the road put in a 5' yard fence for their medium and large dogs they've had, when they moved in 10 years ago. I just went to look at it for consideration. They have medium sized dogs now. The husband said he'd go with 6' if he had to do it over again, because their young dog can jump, though hasn't done it yet. He is thinking time will tell. His wife does some agility with the young dog, a borzoi breed, so if he gets out, he's out of there! Hasn't jumped yet though.

Our border collie mix learned to climb chain link like a ladder, with his toes in the holes....6 feet plus at the doggie day care he went to occasionally. Got out of our fence one last time a few days before invisible fence was going to be installed. They can be too smart for their own good. Broke my heart, I've never felt so guilty in my life.

Yike, GW! So sorry for your experience. One thing I'm hearing is that 5' or 6', if the dog is going to climb, it will climb. I don't think mine does. The trainer thought 5' would be a good height. Kate has been in kennels, and I've not seen climbing, she is more inclined to dig. The trainer did have one dog that would jump, but his experience is that they are not jumping/climbing over the kennel walls.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but with 5500sf, she might not dig at the periphery. Another blessing for us, is that as long as we have cattle on the farm, she won't wonder. The trainer/breeder says that cattle are like candy to border collies. And I've seen this when we've gone for walks on our lane, when she was younger. She will get so far away, then I lose my influence at having her return to calling. Then I'd worry that she would go traveling. Nope, I'd find her in the cattle lot with some yearlings, chasing them around, working everyone up into a sweat!

When I look at our yard, I think the 6' fence would look so imposing. If it was a kennel, that would be another issue, but with the yard, I don't want it to look like a high security compound.

I am leaning towards a 5' black chain link fence at this time.

What about pairing a physical fence with an invisible fence? The physical fence is for the children and first line of defense for the dog and invisible fence is your insurance plan instead of another foot or so of vertical height.

That's what our plan was with the invisible fence...the pair would work far better than either alone. I'm not sure how high we would have had to go to stop Buddy, as 6' was no problem for him. If only we'd given up on improving the physical fence before we did. enduring, I think the 5' is a fine place to start. I think it would keep most dogs in, and if 5 doesn't, 6' probably won't either...that's time to think of other solutions.

Lisaam and GW, that idea with the invisible fence and the physical fence was an idea I had too. I actually have an invisible fence setup but it didn't work well for me when I was trying to DIY that project 2.5 years ago when she was about 6 months old. The fencing went in ok and the shock collar worked, and I worked at training her for several weeks to the boundary, but I got ahead of ourselves and tried it with the shock on instead of just the beep (which I could never hear so wasn't sure it was working). I had her on a leash, then dropped it, thinking that she would continue to go around and retreat with my verbal commands. She got shocked and ran pell-mell through the invisible fencing, way far away and was scared out of her mind. I never tried her on it again. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't try again. Unfortunately the wire is buried in a much larger area than our fencing is located. I do have extra wire, and I could probably unbury the other wire, as I got a very heavy duty grade. Something to DEFINITELY think about. THANKS

Another thought was to put electrical livestock tape around the bottom within the perimeter but that would require people to hook/unhook the tape at the gates at each entry. I like the underground idea better for that reason alone.

One thing to note is that some underground systems do not operate correctly too close to a metal fence. Investigate whether yours is one. Invisible Fence's original product had to be placed several feet, I think 4, inside a metal fence. They have a more recent product that does not have that problem and can be run almost directly under the fence.

If you can install new underground wire within the fence depending on the layout you could maybe create the smaller loop within the fence confines and disconnect the farther portion? Best of hopes at least. With the tools that are probably on your property, laying the invisi fence won't be the hardest part.

Stay patient and vigilant with your girl as you retrain her. My 2 boys have been with me for a year and I almost trust them alone outside. we have lots of interesting animal neighbors-- pigs, goats, sheep, cows-- that are tempting. These dog brothers were put up for adoption because they were harassing chickens so I'm being cautious. But they are not as smart as Kate.

Thanks GW, I don't know what mine is, it was a fairly well known DIY brand. I'll keep that detail in mind when we get that far. The cable is nicely insulated.

Lisaam, what kind of dogs do you have? My Kate might be smarter, but might not be, lol.

TOTALY OFF TOPIC: Kate is doing a great job with the herding training. I got the border collie breed because my DH wanted one, he would not settle for a mixed pup from the rescue league. I thought he was being a little odd about this point, because he never cared before. We have had some wonderful dogs that were found or adopted. But, he was thinking of his border collie from his youth, over 50 years ago. Together they would vault over fences when he was a young teen, and she would be a great gate dog with the cattle. So I found a breeder that was willing to sell to me, and I wanted a female. He had two. Breeding a litter of pups is on my bucket list. I have nothing else on it! All his dogs go to working farms, which we are, but not with a dog. I don't know if the breeder knew the ineptitude of us. DH doesn't know the first thing about herd dog training, lol. I thought I might be able to learn. Anyway, Kate was picked up at 7 weeks old, and cried in the kennel the first mile on our 120 mile trip home. So the kennel came up to the front seat, and strapped in. She continued to cry for the second mile. So she came onto my lap for the rest of the ride home and was quiet. She is of course kennel trained now, and is always in the kennel for car trips. She has been to several regional dog trials, and has done some good things. The trainer/breeder really likes Kate and is willing to help me get her breed and there is a border collie male in another state that he would like to bred her too, that is actually an import from England. Of course no dog is 100% and Kate has her quirks. We and the trainer are now actually co-owners of Kate because of her talent and our inability to access that talent. He told us that when Kate was there at a year old, for some beginning training (before we were co-owners) he felt like he was giving us the keys for a Lamborghini to an old couple, when we picked her back up. Then 1-1/2 years later, I took her back for more training and we came to the new arrangement. Over the last 3 years, Kate and I have done some dog obedience. She does have a bit of an attitude in class lately, because it is not what she wants to do, but she does it. She won't look at me and won't take my treats. She just turns her head away from me, lol. I think the whole thing is boring to her. Then when we are on a break, she is all over the treats and acts like her happy go lucky self again. Of course her treats are 1st class, I make them from beef hearts and tongue. In my yard there is enough room to work on agility. I have never done this but my neighbor has, and with social distancing I think it could be done.

Thanks for reading about Kate :)))

I wish you great good fortune with Kate. We always had border collies, among others. They are so smart and wonderful, but I always told people you really need to love dogs if you want one. We thought they are well worth it. Anyways, I just want to say that I know many people who think invisible fences are wonderful, but I always worried that animals could come IN to my yard while my dog would be stuck there, so we used regular fences. (We have some coyotes here.) Our border collies could have cleared it but never did...the rescue lab, in the other hand:)

I just wanted to add that we had working border collies and an 8 foot high wooden privacy fence, and our favorite bitch, Meg, could take that fence in seconds. She would vault herself up and “grab” the top of the fence by curling her paws over, then spring over and out. She was a smooth coat and a tremendous athlete, with way too much speed.

My husband trained her to run along his bicycle on long rides. She stopped at all cross streets and roads until he called out her “ok” release, and she would race on. She developed a get set of lungs!

Sure do miss the old long gone dogs!

ngcurt and ulisdone thank you both for your stories. These are great. The trainer always comments that Kate is a tough and dominate dog. I don't see her that way. She is sweet to everyone, and that is what I need in a dog. He is looking at other aspects related to training. He loves how she is NEVER backed down by a cow, except once when there was a calf. Kate was new to the job, this spring, and she learned to respect the mama. But generally she is in it to win it. She is fearless. Trainer says her balance while working is wonderful. Trainer is a strong personality and Kate and him make a great pair. He says if he works with a meeker dog, the dog can get thrown off with his assertiveness. Kate just looks at him and makes another attempt to give him the right answer. He always gives her that chance too. Kate loves her work. So when she is here she will be on vacation and some long walks and with hopefully some work in a fenced yard at some agility tricks.