Walkout or Retaining Walls?

3 years ago

Hi folks. I’ll try my best to explain our dilemma. We were really hoping for a walkout basement (as seen in photo of our house plans) but the surveyors reported that we only have 2ft slope from the front to the back of our house. We’re currently trying to decide between a walkout as planned (raise the house 2 feet in the front and fill it in, while excavating the back) or doing a “walk up” basement with retaining walls. We haven’t spoken to the excavation company for quotes yet, but I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this? I’m guessing the full walk out would be more expensive. Are there pros and cons to each that we should be considering?
Thank you so much.

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Comments (7)

RNmomof2 zone 5
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Will the left hand side truly not have any ground up next to it? How long will the retaining wall need to be and what will it eventually die into? What direction does this face? How will this level be used?

We have a partial walk out basement where one side just has exposed daylight windows and then the lot falls away so the other side of the house is a full walkout. Our short (3 ft tall) retaining wall is only 8 foot long and tapers down to the ground at the end.

Also consider how elevating the house 2 feet changes things in the front. Are you in a subdivision or how wide is your lot and how does the fill affect the front yard? Also while we are only 2 steps up into the front of the house, we are 5 steps at the garage side. I was sick last year and let me tell you, those steps were a problem. How old are you are how long do you plan to stay in the house? Are the steps a potential issue or no? We also have 9 ft ceilings in the basement so that also raised us up.

Some things to think about that aren't just $$.
PRO
Mark Bischak, Architect
3 years ago
How did the house get designed with a walkout basement with a site like you have?
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Without being there it does sound like you could do something but will end up with retaining walls somewhere. Around here many people have totally exposed back walls/walkouts with retaining walls - and I mean a wall! on one or both sides (people here love walkouts). A deck would be easiest but would cover the windows I think. Putting in retaing wall "stairs" where the wall is now, flatten a small patio space and more retaining wall going up to the level of the side of the house might work. Or, could you put in a door at the second or higher level? Maybe even on that high side vs. the back? Scrape up the dirt to make the hill higher/flatter and then do retaining walls down to the lower level? I have something more like that set up with the patio off the main floor, retaining walls down to a small patio infront of a basement slider. If you want pictures email me. You just have to make sure that the retaining walls drain away from the house, not down to the patio. Putting in drainage pipes at the bottom on the inside is good. Just make sure whatever you decide on that you have someone familiar with drainage (not that you probably don't know that). I would think if your around Pittsburgh you can find someone no problem, aren't there hills and walls everywhere there? Somewhere where the area is flat it might be harder (are there flat areas of Pennsylvania? LOL:) Mary
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cpartist Thanks for your input. Everything is already framed and I like the layout. I bought this house knowing I would renovate and had several goals - all met with this design. 1. I saw at least 50 plans drawn with the kitchen in different locations including suggested by architects and designers on here. (not exaggerating about the number of plans - there were 3 different architects at different points and you can see all the suggestions offered on Houzz). The current location is the best compromise of location and cost without extending the house. It's 7 feet to the DR from the kitchen - I can live with that. 2. I am a bather so I want a tub in the master. There will be a linen closet in the master as well as several recessed cabinets not shown on the plan. I prefer pedestal sink to vanities as I don't like the sprawl of stuff on top of the vanity. There is not enough room in the guest bath for a bathtub - it can only be 5 feet deep without affecting the entrance to the DR. We can't change the location of the guest bath either as all the windows are already here. It could have been a little bigger if I was willing to put the laundry inside of it but I didn't want to do that. I went around and around on the guest bath with tub. In the end I decided against it for several reasons - 1. Many of my frequent guests have mobility issues that make climbing over a tub to take a shower difficult. 2. I don't have any guests who would take a bath when visiting so it seemed like another compromise I would pay for to make future buyers happy. I have a second home with a bathtub/shower combo and nobody has ever used the tub. Who knows what future buyers will want when I go to sell - if I were looking again, I would want a tub in master not guest. Maybe a family would want something different. Conventional wisdom would say people want at least 2 baths; however, I live in a city neighborhood with all old homes and most of the homes in my neighborhood, including the 4+ bedrooms, have 1.5 baths and they sell quickly. My master bath was and is on the larger side for the neighborhood. My house now has 2 baths on the main floor plus a 3/4 bath in the basement that we updated to use during the renovation. My house also has a full height second floor walk up attic so there is room to grow without adding on. I didn't expand up as I didn't want a two story home. 3. One of the goals of the project was to eliminate the narrow hall that couldn't accommodate moving furniture, a person with a walker, and the outswing doors to the basement and attic. I don't think the hallway can be narrower without looking weird or blocking doors. The new closet in the master is the second master closet - the other one is large. This is looking at the master from the new guest bath - if we were to extend the wall with the closet, I think it would crowd the bedroom doors.
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In general, you want to install your moisture barrier closest to the source of moisture. On above-ground walls you usually put it next to the sheetrock because people generate moisture. On basement walls you usually put it right on the cement wall because ground moisture vapor continues to come through the concrete. Your contractor got it backwards and that is why you had trapped moisture. If you are willing to spend some money, you could have closed cell foam sprayed into the wall, which would provide the sealing you need. After than you wouldn't even need the fiberglass insulation to get the R value you need.. You can also glue sheets of foam into the stud bays and just spray foam the edges to seal it, but that's a tedious job. Can you verify that they used treated wood for the sill plates on the framing? It would be nice if they used treated studs also if they are in contact with the cement walls. You want to keep the water vapor out of all the wood products. Like other insulation in an occupied space, foam requires a heat/fire barrier, and 1/2' sheetrock is the most common. Bruce
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BT
3 years ago
It appears that the drawing suggests 8' fall ... and you only have 2'.

Typically the way math works out is:

If you choose basement let's say 9ft stem wall - it will give you 8'-7" finished basement height because of 4" slab and the drywall . 10' stem walls will give you somewhere 9'-7" finished height.

You stem wall suppose to be a minimum 8" above the grade. But most builders will do 10"-12" minimum because they are not crazy enough to risk. So your first floor now will be 12" + Joists + 1.5" mud sill. Or already 2' above the ground. This gives your basement only one ft above the ground. So with 9' stem you need to drop another 8'.

The rest depends on how deep is your house. If your house is 60' deep , dropping 8' that is only 7 degree slope no big deal, but 15' deep and when the drop is 8' and pretty steep.

If you plan to raise additional 2' or make your front door 4' from the elevation - that could help with reducing excavation but also will lift your house....
just_janni
3 years ago
3 things could happen when you fight that much with the existing topography:
1. You will have an awkward first floor height and your house will look too tall from every angle.
2. You will move enough dirt to put in your basement, and use retaining walls to isolate your home from the existing (true) topography
3. You will move a TON of dirt and work to alter the topography making it look the that was the original slope, with using some retaining walls, but still continue to contour and adjust outside the retaining walls for full integration and making it look like the placement and grading was natural and intentional
These options are in creasing cost order.....
BT
3 years ago
Also I am sure your grader will tell you that, you do not want to step foundation from a corner of your house. You will have some exposed concrete with damp proofing. You want to have some flat section before it will start to slope....
live_wire_oak
3 years ago
Redesign the house as a two story. The site is not suited to a basement of any variety unless you want the traditional short, dark, and creepy kind. And that’s only if the frost line is deep. Otherwise 2’ is nothing for a slab foundation to overcome. It IS for any type of usable basement with egress.

So, who ran off and designed a house without a site survey? That’s like Step 1 in Designing to the Actual Site. Which is always Step 1 in any custom design. It avoids the Plopped House Syndrome, which you’re trying to fix right now. An issue that never had to happen.
PRO
PPF.
3 years ago
I'll agree it's time for a rethink. Strive for a cohesive design the works with your building site.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5918028/side-elevation-and-basement-layout

Walkout or Retaining Walls?

Comments (7)

RNmomof2 zone 5

Mark Bischak, Architect

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just_janni

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live_wire_oak

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