I think you are fretting over nothing. However, I will try to get the matching AHRI number for you which will give the performance and efficiency numbers. You will need an AmStD 2 stage thermostat and I also recommend a pleated filter media cabinet. You will get varying opinions but I personally believe AmStd is better HVAC than Lennox, any and every day.

TD

I think he's fretting over 2 SEER.

To say the Lennox 16ACX would be any more efficient than 14 SEER in a 5 ton configuration? probably not. If the Lennox was more efficient it would only be marginal at best.

See manufacturer's will make a unit then use the highest efficient model possible to brand the 'efficiency' of that particular model... as the sizing goes up (5 ton being the largest size possible for split system residential) the efficiency goes down.

The efficiency rating of this particular model with a 2 or 3 ton configuration is probably 17 SEER. (The model number numbers give me this hint) It appears to be a 2 speed, which further complicates the efficiency rating (especially for your climate in the desert)

The DOE tends to use (or require the use of) the 2nd stage numbers for the overall efficiency of the machine. So while the unit will have marginally better numbers in 1st stage... due to where you are located climate wise --- that machine is going to run a lot in 2nd stage.

To say Lennox is better than American Standard or American Standard is better than Lennox?

I'm an AC repair man... in that kind of heat -- they both will break. How, what, why, when & where --- is really the only difference.

I service the Katy, Texas area. (There are ways to improve efficiency, even with a larger sized configuration... however those options cost more and I never get into the argument of 'my brand is better than your brand'.)

Energy Efficient SEER rating in the desert that's a tough climate for efficiency for more reasons than one.

It is a 16 SEER, 12.50 EER, 57,500 BTUs

8785584 ActiveSystemsRCU-A-CB1PLATINUM XMAMERICAN STANDARD4A7A7060A14TXCC009DS3*UD2C100B9V55750012.5016.0015401235No

https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=816395&d=1591354818

Yeah there is a disclaimer on that 14 SEER sticker that the efficiency rating depends on the indoor coil chosen. Assuming of course the unit was installed properly. With temps in the 110F range shouldn't take long to know that.

Other factors that can effect efficiency: line set sizing / length, number of turns. Duct work configuration etc. So a AHRI efficiency certificate only goes so far.... It's not an exact science.

Does anyone know what this SEER sticker on the condenser is supposed to represent? Condensers by themselves have no SEER rating. Does it mean a split system will have a minimum of a 14 SEER rating when connected to this condenser?

If you read the ACCA Manual J document it states the manufacturer is allowed to measure the SEER and EER ratings in either the low or high stage for 2-stage equipment. The manufacturer is free to publish the best numbers it can get under test conditions in the lab. For the Phoenix climate the EER rating is actually more important than SEER. EER is measured at 95 degrees which occurs very often in Phoenix.

Thank you everyone for the reassurance and education! I appreciate your time very much. My installation went very well so far and the house is quite comfortable again. ;-)

Does anyone know what this SEER sticker on the condenser is supposed to represent? Condensers by themselves have no SEER rating.

It represents the 'most likely' worse case scenario. So to say a condenser by themselves have no SEER rating is not true. Not by a long shot.

If you took a 20 year old condenser and a new condenser of this magnitude the new condenser would be more efficient to operate than the 20 year old condenser.

How would that be possible if the condenser has no SEER rating?

You think I could do what I do, replacing condensers only on good number of occasion in a hot sticky climate with no fan fare in the way of this:

"Hey, you replaced my AC condenser and my light bill went up?" No one has ever told me that in nearly 26 years of what I do.

If the light bill did go up... there's always a reason for it. Has little to do with how much or how little is replaced. This is merely to 'try' to keep us honest. You know the gimmick department for some companies is a quite large entity. It has to be they are banking on it. (money)

Fallacy? what is it? What you think is true... may only be partially true. How did I get to the point in which I started to question things?

26 years is a long time Mike.

This practice of putting a sticker to show the worst case SEER rating on a condenser must have started recently. In my opinion it just confuses the consumer.

what are the Variable factors that determine SEER?....size of condenser, Evap coil selection, type of blower motor....while never liking the term “up to 16 SEER”, it’s better than nothing but still offers a great deal of wiggle room to manufacturer and dealer trying to make a sale. I still prefer the matching system number from AHRI directory...

TD

what are the Variable factors that determine SEER?

But what about where the equipment is placed (in a hot attic) which is often toted on this board as a not so good idea. (Absent in AHRI criteria?)

The line set is under sized? how does that effect efficiency? A long line set run 50 feet or more? (Absent in AHRI criteria?)

The more line set used, the more refrigerant needed the harder that compressor runs to push it thru the system... twist turns and bends decrease efficiency further? (Absent in AHRI criteria?)

Duct work design, insulation level of ducts, how long those runs are. Twist, turns and bends of that air increase system turbulence which correspondingly decrease efficiency? (Absent in AHRI criteria?)

But that AHRI number is so important? Or is this just a gimmick? I'm gonna go with gimmick. It gives you 'some' information as to what certain equipment can achieve, but it leaves a lot to be desired if you're not addressing the 'whole design'.

Addressing the 'whole design' costs more money... so the efficiency desire is often clouded by 'ding-ding' --- $MONEY$.

Those that tout the AHRI numbers that didn't work after the job was done... will just use an excuse why your efficiency numbers don't look so good. They have a disclaimer, to fall back on.

All manufacturer's have disclaimers in terms of efficiency ratings, ironically enough.

(Note: I am not talking about new construction in this post, that is an entirely different subject.)

Remember the shell shuffle game? Keep your eyes on the ball they said... yeah it's kinda like that.

The SEER rating itself is a gimmick. At best it allows a buyer to compare the efficiency of two pieces of equipment. You are right that everyone is so hung up on this number, but there are so many variable and poor installation that makes any laboratory measured rating meaningless.

So I suppose the buyer has to trust the installer when he says your SEER rating is something other than what is printed on the label of the condenser.

SEER rating is based on changing temps. There is no better way to do it Mike.

If you use EER that is based on static temps that don't change. So it 'really' only works in lab conditions where temperatures remain constant. You don't really see that in climate. There's some areas that remain at higher elevated temps (like desert areas) but even those areas the temperature still changes.

Once you realize this box with a name on it, is a science machine that doesn't work by magic... you gain a better understanding that it is not an exact science.

There's a variance to all of it... including efficiency of the machine. The AHRI selection is merely to give you a rule of thumb, where many times rules are thrown out because $money$ clouds the picture.

Contractors that sell based on AHRI numbers and price, then when those efficiency targets are not hit.... they point to a fine print disclaimer. (too bad for you)

Then over time and frustration people no longer believe that the kind of efficiencies advertised can be attained. It's a vicious cycle, to say the least.

If not the AHRI matching number, then what? A pig and a poke?..

If not the AHRI matching number, then what? A pig and a poke?..

A long winded explanation on every job like this thread... along with fine print disclaimer approved by a lawyer so the contractor has a way out besides getting sued.

Exclusions...then caveat emptor=pig and poke...

Exclusions...then caveat emptor=pig and poke...

Do you find it ironic that all the people with all this 'so called knowledge' oozing from their finger tips... don't actually work on Air Conditioning, let alone install it.

The lone AC installer (vast majority), does not have near the technical know how or knowledge but they are entrusted to make sure your system is installed to perform to an AHRI specification based on merely matching certain pieces of equipment together.

Yeah a pig is getting poked all right....

Let's not pay any attention to whom that actually is. (The customer)

Bottom line is the AHRI spec, a bit like an EPA gas mileage. Its a standardized reference but "your mileage may vary"!

https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=816395&d=1591354818

Be sure to read that AHRI certificate disclaimer & "TERMS & CONDITIONS" from the link posted above this post by sktn77a.

AHRI wants you to keep this a 'secret'. You can't publicly display the information?

So lawfully HVAC-talk 'could be sued' for breaking that clause and now Houzz because a link resides here too?

Yeah, no problem there... lol.

This is no longer a pig & a poke... it's a full on BBQ!
( yeah you can't make this stuff up... lol)

Maybe time to come clean and just admit this now........

Hmmm, I prefer Uncle Yammies, myself, but each to his own....................