Wayne (adirondackgardener) had an important comment. Mother nature, I prefer to say God's design, but lets us just say nature does a wonderful job. Let's think about that a little. Nature really does do a fantastic job. Something grows just about everywhere. Now notice that part of that mix is that different things grow in different places. Each place has different soil, different slope, different weather, different life from microbes to large animals, and so different plants grow there... naturally. So, there is no reason to think that one formula for green cover crop will work the same way in every place with every crop. So, if we step back and look at what nature does in THAT spot, you can learn from that and determine what will work in cultivate practices. I have a very sandy soil that is almost white in color to start with. I never till. [unless I have bermuda grass (nope, I don't plant corn in bermuda grass for cryin' out loud). For bermuda I use a physical barrier like cardboard with mulch over that, and once it's down to almost nothing I pull by hand and hula hoe. But I digress from the topic] So I never till. Because I never till I have magnificent soil horizons, the wonderful natural layers that develop in a richly fertile soil. O, A, B and C horizons are all textbook beautiful and have rich color. Plowing or disking or harrowing or any such tilling practice destroys those layers. Now of course you can still grow things in soil that has had its structure destroyed, but it often requires an ongoing practice of more tilling and use of herbicide and chemical fertilizer that are expensive and come with a price for the pocket book, taste of the food, and the environment. but again I digress. I have these wonderful natural soil layers and my soil is wonderfully productive, sustainable, environmentally friendly, that grows great tasting, healthy food. wow. the particulars of WHAT will grow ... not everything. I can't grow cherries. I've tried, ok? 128 degree days are kind of hard on cherries and 75 degree winters don't give them the chill they need. But those same temp's grow some wow-wonderful date palms with the best dates in the world. So I grow dates, not cherries because that is what nature allows here. And I don't till the soil. so ... oh yea, green manure crops. Wasn't that the question? Well, I start new ground with a cover crop. once things get going I allow some cover to grow some of the time, but it's not a "manure" crop because I don't till it in. I use it as mulch on the surface. I let nature guide me, allowing native plants [I'm so sorry that you think they are weeds, they are not] and the sparse amount of rain we get does most if not all the watering for the green not-manure crop that I then use as mulch. Learn from what grows around you and work with it. Don't fight it with the brute force of constant tilling and chemicals. Encourage nature with a little cultivation. Cultivate good life. That can be taken so many good ways.

Thanks dood, I do try to back up what I say with pictures as evidence, rather than hollow talk, stuff that I have copied and pasted or just rhetoric. I think that we over think and over worry a lot of this stuff. Here is an example: This is a near record, if not THE record for rainfall for our area. Consequently a very good (or bad depending on which side you are on)year for fleas. Because of our dogs misery, we had to treat the yard for fleas the other day and used some bug b gone product in a fertilize spreader when it looked like it was going to be no rain for most of a day. It got the fleas, but much to my dismay, I found in the yard thee next day after the next heavy downpour. Some of them could have drown of course, some usually do, however I was very encouraged a few days later to see (all the little black spots) of an apparently still healthy population of earthworms. Mind you, this is after two years of severe drought which really took it's toll on them. I am still not seeing much evidence of the little red wigglers, but as I understand it, they do not burrow deep to escape the drought like the regular earthworms. My conclusion is that they are pretty resilient, danged tough and can withstand a lot of adversity and come back strong. Consequently, I would not worry at all about spraying a little bit of round up on the foliage of unwanted weeds and grasses. I think that it goes right down the plant stem and kills the roots and is deactivated with contact with the dirt. Just my observations and thoughts. Bill P.

It's interesting because when I originally was getting into this I felt like I was doing the world a favor by producing some of my own food. Looking back, it seems that it has turned into a relatively expensive hobby. I plan to try to calculate the cost of the total setup + electricity + random supplies and see how it compares to the cost of my total crop output using average prices. I've had some "mad-scientist" type ideas that include using mirrors and foil to maximize my light. I've even considered placing a large mirror outside and somehow rigging it to constantly line up the sun with my window. Another thought would involve the growth of exclusively medium to low light vegetables in bulk so that my overall yield would be higher, but limited in plant types (aka lots of lettuce and herbs). There has to be some way to use technology and creative thinking to at the very least break even in a low-sun environment. I just got some windshield sun shades at the dollar store. I plan to rig them up on all sides, along with some aluminum foil and see if it helps. I also got some liquid-soluble fertilizer that I plan to add in very low concentrations every few weeks. Thus far, I have been very successful. The pop-top planters that I mentioned before are doing a great job and promoting root growth. I've also noticed that everything has a deep green, healthy shine. And lets not forget the tomatoes that are forming. I plan to do everything I can to promote growth until the lack of soil volume, and light begin to take its toll. Here are some pictures, and I'll keep you posted on progress.

Here is a nice selection of 16 true micro tomatoes from Heritage Seed Market. https://heritageseedmarket.com/index.php/product-category/dwarf-tomatoes/micro-dwarf-tomatoes/ Lime Green Salad is not a micro, but a 2.5 feet tall dwarf which produces 4 oz wonderfully tasty tomatoes (grew it last year, and growing it again)! I chose these 4 micros to grow next on our window which gets 7+ hrs sunlight: ------------------------------- seed on --- Plant on: 1. Birdie Rouge ---------------- 1/01* ..... 3-10 1. Yellow Balcony -------------- 1/01* ..... 3-10 1. Gold Pearl ------------------- 1/01* ..... 3-10 1. Pinocchio Red -------------- 1/01* .... 3-10 these 4 micros look great already in about 2 weeks they'll be planted on our daybed window which is 7' long and gets 7+ hrs of direct sunlight --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Lime Green Salad dwarf -- seeded 12/18/2017 -- already big in 1/2 gal pot will grow it as big as possible then plant it end of March under a dome like last year to get a month's jump start outside ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are the Red Robins I grew this Winter: 1-20-2018 update: Red Robin tomatoes are getting more plump, juicy and better tasting (getting 7+ hrs direct sunlight now). Stood by our 7' long daybed window this morning -- the first sun rays hit the plants at 9:33 am, and now this afternoon, the last sun rays ended at 4:45 pm -- equals 7 hours and 12 minutes of direct sunlight, plus couple of morning hrs of indirect light !!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If interested --- read the links below: 2018 Winter Tomatoes -- what, when and where are you planting? - Lime Green Salad dwarf tomato --- is anyone else growing it? - Hope this helps, Tony