So far no recommendation as he is waiting to see what they come back with.

But regardless of what they counter, I’m curious as to if there is some sort of a consensus (whether anecdotal or otherwise) on what kind of compensation we should expect with this given circumstance.

Playing devil’s advocate, they could have the attitude “you knew the roof and deck weren’t new, why should it be on us to give you a brand new roof and deck?” That’s a fair argument.

But we could also have the attitude of, “we expected useful life out of both of these home components. They have zero life according to the inspector. Because roofs and decks are not like a used car that is totaled where you can go out and buy another very similar car at the same depreciated value, you owe us a new roof and deck.”

We were planning on using the proceeds of our sale on our existing home to pay for other projects such as updating the kitchen and bathrooms - this wasn’t even on our radar.

I can see many different arguments to this predicament - just truly interested in finding something that is fair for all parties.

something for the roof, nothing for the deck.

There are many examples in our neighborhood where the sales fell through because the roofs were old (20 + years) and the buyer could not get insurance or a mortgage. The houses went off the listings and the owners ended up replacing the roofs. One owner offered a credit to the buyer, but the buyer got roof prices that exceeded the credit by 10k and backed out of the sale. Now with Coronavirus, it seams roof prices have been coming down a bit.

A lay person would not know the condition of the roof.. For example, concrete roof tiles can look fine, but the 90 lb underpayment can be deteriorated and falling apart. I would ask for replacement of the roof and follow up with the bank and insurance co.

As for the deck, it is unclear as to what near the end of its life means. If the deck is unsafe, ie: rotted boards, falling apart, then I think the owner is responsible to repair it to bring to a safe condition. People should not be walking on the deck if it is unsafe.

Yes, the deck is unsafe and has to be completely condemned per inspector.

Depends on a lot of things - and how aggressive is your realtor knowing the agreed upon price compared to the market in the neighborhood.

Buyer, you are not owed any compensation whatsoever. You sound a bit entitled, although I believe you may just be upset at the need to replace these structures. Is the house being sold “as is?” Most of the time the asking price will reflect the condition of the house. As someone else pointed out, the seller doesn’t owe you a new anything. If you feel the condition of the house warrants a decrease in price, then negotiate. If you can’t afford to buy the house and make the repairs, move on. The seller is not trying swindle you.

Shady, if the rampant disclaimers and making arguments on both sides I made wasn’t enough to make you think I feel anything but “entitled,” then your reading comprehension issue is much bigger than this roof or deck.

First of all, I'm a little surprised that your inspector said no to the roof. A lot of them, especially when recommended by the realtor, are hesitant to wrench a sale that way.

It's also possible that he's just wrong. If it's not leaking now, there might be a few more years of life in the roof.

With the deck, again assuming that it's not collapsing under you when you walk on it and hasn't been condemned by the local authority, another inspector might say it's marginal, but OK for now.

As for the seller's obligation, my understanding from buying several houses over the years is that once your offer is accepted, the time for negotiation is past.

Now, if your lender won't write a mortgage on a house with a bad roof (quite possible) and your agreement is contingent on that mortgage, then you have an escape. However, that doesn't mean that the seller is under contractual obligation to correct the defects.

He still might choose to make a deal with you so as not to lose the sale, maybe splitting the cost of the roof with you, for example. On the other thumb, if the market is strong (is it anywhere now?), and he can afford to wait, he could also decide to let the sale go and wait for another offer.

In sum, the ball is mostly in the seller's court now. That's not what you hoped to hear, I'm sure, but I think it's a realistic assessment.

To clear up any misconceptions - this contract was always contingent upon a satisfactory inspection of the home (as almost all real estate deals are, at least where I’m from).

The term “satisfactory” certainly shifts from buyer to buyer, but I cannot imagine most people being made aware that two of the biggest ticket components of a home needing to be replaced right away would deem the inspection to be “satisfactory.” There are several other issues with the home that run into the several thousands of dollars that we‘re not even really concerned with and didn’t even bring them up with the seller as we certainly don’t want to nickel and dime.

Again, we were aware that the roof and deck were older and perhaps needed a little work, but we were certainly not expecting a total replacement right away, much less on both of them.

In terms of what kind of market it is and if we run the risk of them relisting the house? I doubt they would do that as they already lost their first buyer to a Covid lay-off. Should we be extremely unreasonable in our demands it is still certainly possible.

The bottom line is I’m just trying to figure out a sweet spot on what they can contribute to this $24k surprise that needs to be dealt with immediately that has been laid upon us after inspection.

I haven’t even mentioned the HVAC, while still functioning, is from 1993. The entire kitchen needs updated as well as two bathrooms.

Those were the sorts of things that we could readily see and expect to budget for in the first 1-3 years when we made our offer. The deck and roof being at ZERO in any more useful life were a surprise to a large extent...

Look for another house as you will never be satisfied with this house. A lot of what you are mentioning with the updating is always on the buyer.

I guess what would be fair is to re-evaluate the property's value based upon the true needed work (roof and deck) and other attributes, not your desire for updated kitchen and bath, then weigh that against what you offered. Keep in mind that assuming the roof would last only another 3 -5 years was a pretty marginal bet. The deck sounds more of a surprise. The HVAC, on the other hand, if well maintained could go another 10-15.

Then think about how much of the repair expense now, and expense in the future for elective updates, you could be willing to pay for the property because it ticks most of your boxes - in other words, you really want it -

If your assessment of the value + repair cost still is reasonable for the property and the area, I think it would be a good idea to ask the seller to pitch in for the new roof and deck but not pay the entire cost. That way (if they agree) you get the house you want, the roof /deck repair will cost you less than it would be in 5 years, and they avoid losing the sale.

I would bet their decision will be based on what their agent advises them on the market value now, because I believe that they will have to disclose the inspection results to any other prospective buyers.

Are you working through a realtor on your end Jobu?

You have to look at the deal as a whole. Not "these unexpected things came up, so remove X from the price". The price may already have these items factored into it. Or maybe not.

This is a negotiation where there's no 'right' answer.

You have to figure out what you think the house is worth to you given this new information and present it to the seller who will also have their own thoughts about what they think the house is worth. If you come to an agreement, then the sale happens. If not, you move on.

Without knowing the full picture and the market in this particular area, nobody here can tell you want you should ask for.

I agree with Greg, it will be up to you. From your writings there seems to be to many problems with the house. I think it will be a buyers market for some time. Unless you really need to buy I would see what happens with housing in the next six months.

I'm a Realtor and in my area the buyer has X (negotiated) days to complete their due diligence on the property, including inspections, written in the contract. In my area it is completely normal to negotiate the price of the sale and then IF the inspection turns up items that are unexpected, to go back and renegotiate the terms. Either the seller and buyer agree on the new terms or the contract is terminated by the buyer during the inspection period. This is SOP. Even on AS IS contracts we have negotiated repair items that are significant. If the seller says no, then the buyer walks and gets their EMD back. It is unrealistic for the buyer to be an expert at all things and be able to pick up all deficiencies with an initial walk through.

Here a roof at the end of its useful life couldn't get insurance which would prohibit any traditional financing (conventional or government). As an agent, I've had to negotiate roof replacements on the buyers side and also the sellers side. Given the info you provided, if the house is what you want other than the roof and the deck, I would have the seller replace the roof at sellers expense. After all, the sellers are the people that used up the roof during the course of their ownership. For the deck, I would take a negotiated credit at closing. When estimating value of a property, you assume that the systems are up to standard until you do the inspection and find out otherwise. If you can't negotiate a satisfactory resolution, be prepared to cancel the purchase. Each negotiation is different. Your agent should be able to give you realistic alternatives.

Please note: sometimes a seller says no to a new roof because they don't have liquid funds to pay for the replacement. In those cases, I have been able to get the roof replaced before closing and have the roofing contractor paid by the title co at closing. It's a regular line item on the closing statement. This is a win-win for all parties. I mention this because most sellers are reluctant to say they don't have the funds to pay for a new roof before closing.

Without seeing the report it is impossible to comment. An inspection from a home inspector is not the same thing as an inspection from a roofer. I would get a roofer to inspect and see how much life, if any, is left.

I would personally pick just one and pursue it. A willingness to drop one item completely and focus solely on the other sends a message about priorities. Really, this question is not about how much the seller should pay, it is about finding the amount the seller will pay and whether or not that amount is one you are willing to accept.

As for dropping this house and finding another one, real estate is local and I can't help you. I don't know if this is the one house that fits your needs or just a house that will work OK for you.

Some of the advice on the housing market is also questionable. You don't live in the housing market and your house is not a savings account. You live in a home and the value of that home depends a lot more on how it affects your life than it does on how much you paid for it.

My wife and I put an offer in on a house (that was accepted)

How much under asking price did you offer?

The roof, while old, was in decent shape and had maybe 3-5 years of useful life.

Does the roof leak? Obviously, you weren't expecting much more life out of it.

The deck, while also older, simply needed a little bit of repairing and a new paint job. Estimated useful life of 5-10 years.

IMO, you had a way too optimistic expectation. Wood deck? Wood decks die young--average life expectancy is 10-15 years.

At most, maybe a reduction of 25% of the cost of replacing the roof. Nada for the deck. That's w/o knowing how much your offer was under seller's asking price.

Best advice above is to wait for prices to realign post epidemic. I'll add that you don't come off as a buyer who should be shopping older homes in need of TLC. Able to evaluate the condition of a deck w/o having an inspector? Any DIY skills?

If you still like the house, call a roofer for an additional inspection. The report is a good reason to make this effort.

Call a structural engineer or general contractor to inspect the deck. The report is a good reason to make this effort.

Call an HVAC specialist to look at your HVAC. Even though working, HVAC is a complicated piece of machinery and your potential unit is well beyond it's usable life. Get an expert in to really look at it.

Once you have this information, if you still like the house, renegotiate.

You asked what is fair? There is not really measure of fair in a real estate transaction. The question is what is it worth to you? Remember that the seller cannot put this back on the market without disclosing the deficiencies of the property.

Be prepared to walk away. This could be a money pit. Or, at the right price an opportunity. Always be prepared to walk away.

^Good advice homechef59.

My father had an old adage about the word "fair": 'It depends on if you are the buyer or the seller.' (My polite version) He was a Southerner through and through so the way he said it was much more colorful: "It depends on whose ox is getting gored." :)

Thank you cilantro (and everyone else) for the feedback. To answer your questions:

The asking price on the home was $389k. Our accepted offer pre-inspection after a quick counter was $373k.

There is no evidence of a roof leak but the inspector said it is missing about 7 shingles.

Yes, this was a wood deck.

Your senses are correct that I am by no means a contractor or savvy DIYer, but I rely on people around me who are and process information very deliberately to make as wise of choices as possible (including the purchasing of a home).

There can be many agendas and biases when it comes to a real estate transaction, so I thought this would be a good place to come to see what people completely removed from this situation would think.

Thanks again to all of you - please keep the advice and opinions coming!

Were you able to find out the age of the roof?

LALA, they’re not exactly sure but think it is somewhere around 20 years old.

In our area of S Florida we can't get insurance on a roof over 20 years old.

So we check building permit records to find out when the roof was replaced last to get an accurate idea of the roof's age. Here in some areas the permit records are on line and easily accessible. In other cases we have to visit or call the building department to get the permit information. It may be different in your area entirely.

I like Denita's and Homechef's advice. Get specific information during the inspection period, and then renegotiate through your realtor. Definitely be prepared to walk away, and get that across to the seller. If the seller doesn't make good on price or corrections, walk away. As Denita says, the seller will have to share the bad news to future buyers, so he ought to do what he can now to sell the house to you. Keep your eye on the legally allowed inspection period.

I have a different perspective. You will never get anything you don’t ask for. Other potential buyers will also likely be put off by these issues upon inspection. You are too nice, stop thinking about fair. Make an offer that works for you and if it does not work for them they should counter (absent a bidding war and you really want the house). You can also check and see what their mortgage is compared to the asking price to get an idea of what they can do. You also don’t know how badly they want to sell. If they have wiggle room to pay off the mortgage and really want to sell, they may be willing to take the whole amount off. They will never do that if you ask for less.

20 Years is a worn out roof. It's missing shingles. With the age of the remaining shingles, they will be too brittle to patch. It will need a new roof. Plus, there may be decking damage that won't be apparent until the shingles and paper are removed. The roof requires a full replacement.

What is the approximate square footage is the house? Is there a garage? Is it attached? Does it need a roof, too. Are there dormers or valleys in the roof? This will give you a very fast estimation as to the cost of a new roof.

But, if you plan on continuing with the process, you will need an inspection by a roofer and an estimate to repair. With that estimate in hand, you now have bargaining power. Depending upon the size of the house and assuming you are using good architectural asphalt shingles, the roof repair cost could range from $5,000 to $15,000. Don't you want to know for certain?

The same thing goes for the deck and the HVAC. I'm less worried about the deck cost. That's easy to cost out. The HVAC will potentially cost as much as a new roof or more. At 20 years, I'm betting that the coil is rusted out and the compressor is shot. Those types of items are very expensive to replace. You will want to know for certain.

While home inspectors can be very good or very bad, there is no substitute for subject matter experts. Bottom line, go get the estimates. If necessary, extend the inspection period to accommodate these additional inspections. If the seller won't accommodate your request for additional time to complete these additional inspections, walk away.

Remember, real estate is the last of the great horse trades. You want to know what you are buying.

Seller already gave a $15,000 discount on the house. What is “fair?” I guess whatever they feel is “fair.” But it does not seem to me that seller is not being “fair,” or that buyer is being treated “unfairly.” Every dollar that a seller concedes is exactly a dollar out of the check the seller receives at settlement. Whereas buyer just gets a very slightly smaller mortgage payment.

Every dollar that a seller concedes is exactly a dollar out of the check the seller receives at settlement. Whereas buyer just gets a very slightly smaller mortgage payment.

Yes, however, the present value of that slightly smaller mortgage payment at the mortgage rate is a dollar. That is the nature of interest... Also the buyer might be putting down more than 20% so it could just be a dollar in their pocket.

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I think we should get past the word "fair," and allow the word is fairly flexible and in this case the OP was using the term for reasonable. Although sufficient or adequate are also accepted uses of fair that work in this case.

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Just remember it is not about the deal, it is about the house. No one here can tell you what amount of money should be required to make the deal go through because no one here knows your utility for this house. We can talk all day long about making deals, walking away from deals, tough negotiations, etc. because we don't have any skin in this game. There is some good advice here, but do be cautious when considering it, because a great deal on a house that doesn't work for you is worse than overpaying a bit for a house that is great for you.

No one could properly estimate that the roof had 3-5 years left before replacement. that's a crap shoot. It could have been 2-4 years left. Maybe 4-6 years. Are you in a hurricane area? Tornados? Unless it were a somewhat new roof, it's an old roof that will have to be replaced relatively soon. You already knew that. I don't think there is a difference between the inspector's opinion that the roof should be replaced soon and the disclosed 3-5 years (which was someone else's opinion). You say you can't afford a new roof now because of your expected renovations to the interior. Did you expect a windfall inheritance in the next 3-5 years that would pay for the new roof? I know very few people who would have an additional $24000 in three years. Missing 7 shingles is not a big deal. So if I were the seller, I would tell you I already priced in a new roof in the asking price. Every thing is a negotiation. In a seller's market and/or the seller doesn't need to sell, he can tell you to take a hike. Your inspector will always report the bad outcome to cover himself. Also, may inspectors also are affiliated with companies that can perform the indicated repairs.

You bid knowing you were getting a nearing-end-of-life roof. Then presumably, if the sellers gave you a brand new roof, you would have been willing to pay more. So "reasonable" might be in the range of the sellers paying 25% of the cost, to offset your needing to replace it sooner than expected.

On the deck, what are the specifics the inspector said were wrong with it? Wood decks typically wear out on the surface, but the framing is fine, and you can just replace the decking. That's the kind of thing you should have been able to see (rotting boards, splinters, etc.). Did he say there's something wrong with the framing? The "condemnable" type issues I could think of would be if the posts were sunk into dirt and are rotting, or the ledger board wasn't properly flashed into the side of the house and is rotting. But neither of these entails a total tear-down, you can just replace the posts (or ledger).

Any photos you've got of the deck?

First item is have your realtor negotiate an extension to the inspection clause. Second item is contact the local authority and file a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request asking for all permits and any noted code violations. Then you can tell exactly how old the roof and deck are and whether there were any issues with the inspections when the work was originally done.

The final price as compared to the listing price can be misleading as the list price might have been rather high or perhaps priced for a quick sale. Would you feel differently if the house price had been $489K and a discount of $116K?

Most of the houses I bought as foreclosures needed new roofs. Many homeowners put off replacing the roof until the leaks irritate them because it is an expensive job that only has a small increase in market value. Sure it is much easier to sell a house with a new roof but since a good roof is an expectation, not an upgrade, it doesn't show much in the list price.

I would prefer to get a discount on the price and make my own arrangements for the new roof. When the seller pays, cheapest acceptable roof is the standard. If there is only one layer of shingles, the seller may put down a new roof over the existing and save the tearoff costs. When I had the roof put on my house, I chose to pay extra for upgraded underlayment and shingles which would not be choices available if the seller had the work done. If the work is done after purchase, you have the opportunity to see the condition of the roof deck and negotiate any needed repairs at that.

FOIA for permit info? Lyndee Lee, you must be in a location where building permits aren't public record like they are here.

Inspections by the building dept along with building permits are also public record. Plans too if you want to go to the county building dept and pull a copy. You only pay for the copy itself and its a nominal fee. Those records are free to review if you don't need a copy. Anyone can find out (here) about any property's building permits and bldg inspections.

OP, check with your Realtor to see how building permits and bldg insps are handled in your area. I can't imagine having to file a FOIA for building permits.

contact the local authority and file a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request asking for all permits and any noted code violations.

The Freedom or Information Act applies only to Federal Agencies. Permitting is almost always a public record.

The FOIA request here is the way access is granted. When walkin service was available, you could only ask for access to property if you were the owner of record. If you wanted info about other properties, you had to submit a formal request but the office help was quite good about helping people with filing the request. If they weren't busy, they would log the request and then let you go through the microfiche for old records. Only the city personnel have the access to the computer system, so they will print off the info on the computer system. When I submit the request, I specify if I want the info sent in email, mailed or come by to review the records in person.

I don't know if the building department has plans on file for newer construction but they don't have them for work done pre computer age. Our local county records for property transactions and property taxes paid are available online without any fees. Many counties here only provide free access to information in person, online searches are free but viewing the records found requires money.

There are various ways that public information is accessed and that may mean filling out a formal request. So public records may require some formal request to access and/or a delay as the request is being processed. Public records/information doesn't necessarily mean that you have easy access to it, it just means that the information can be accessed without a court order.

A Freedom of Information Act request is a request for a Federal agency to scan documents that are not currently public information for exceptions to public information (there are nine exceptions) to either make the documents public, edit (redact) the documents such that they can be public, or provide notice as to why they can't be made public. After a successful Freedom or Information Act request you often have to file another request to actually get the documents that have been made public such as filling out a form.

This is neither here nor there really, I am just adding the information if anyone wants it.

The inspection period is not supposed to be a time for negotiations to begin anew but sadly that is what it has become in my experience. My husband and I buy, renovate and sell multiple properties each year so we are on both ends of the RE transaction often. We make our initial offers based on what we think is fair and what estimated renovations will cost. We would never dream of asking for credits after inspection for items that are still working but near the end of their useful life. You are not buying new construction. Our initial offer reflects the condition of the property. We don't always get a property at the price we want and if we don't, we walk. On the flip side as sellers we often have people ask to replace or get credit for major systems because an inspection report said it was nearing the end of its useful life. We have never once given in to this request and have canceled deals and moved onto other buyers because of this. Much to the chagrin of the buyer's side Realtor who will usually jump in and try to salvage the deal. However, we are not in a position where we are desperate to sell. And our RE market is hot. Bottom line, of course it is your right to ask as it is their right to say no. Whether this transaction goes through will be based on the desperation of either side.

I went back and reread the original post since apparently I did not comprehend much. But I am pretty sure I did - buyer “assumed” both the roof and deck had several years of life left. Buyer admits to not being a professional. Buyer then made an offer based on those assumptions, then had a professional inspect the structure. The resulting report shows buyers assumptions to be incorrect, so buyer wants to renegotiate the purchase price because he or she is not happy with what he or she felt was a fair deal. If buyer can not afford to make the repairs and seller won’t renegotiate, I guess buyer should move on.

You won't know unless you ask. You know if you made an offer based on the general apparent condition. None of us know this from your post. The price could have been an inflated price. We just don't know the entire situation.

Inspections are the time to renegotiate if you have discovered a deficient situation and that knowledge would indicate a concession on the part of the seller. If you already knew or suspected issues and this is reflected in your offer, feel confident about your offer. Only you know if the price is still acceptable to you after completing the inspections.

My personal point of view in a real estate transaction is based on whether I'm selling or I'm buying. My view changes according to my position. The one thing that I do know is no one will look out for your interest more than you. No need to be a jerk, but driving a hard bargain is okay. Never be afraid to walk away. No one loves your money like you love your money.

I wouldn't buy a house needing a new roof unless the price reflected that (i.e. a bargain) and I had cash to pay for it. In most states the sellers will have to disclose the known condition of the roof to future buyers, which will impact their selling price. I'd ask for the entire cost of roof replacement -- either they take care of it or leave funds in escrow so you can do it. You are in a strong position to negotiate.

Is the deck large? Small? Is it at ground level or on stilts? Stairs? How is the overall structure? Is it ready to crash to the ground or do the deck boards need to be replaced? Is this something you can DIY or will you need to contract out the work? Depending on the situation, I'd seek some compensation for the deck, either a reduced sales price of some other consideration.

Your realtor should be on top of all of this.

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts and advice.

We came to an agreement that they would basically give us a seller's concession of $5k at closing, lowered the purchase price by $5k, and provided a two-year home warranty (value of around $1k). So, in the end, they're picking up close to half the tab of a new deck and roof ($24k total to replace both). I feel like this was fair for both parties all things considered.

Congratulations Jobu! May you have a smooth closing :)

Better read that home warranty. It isn’t going to buy you a new roof and new deck.

Congratulations.

Better read that home warranty. It isn’t going to buy you a new roof and new deck.

Better read his post again ... he never claimed that he thought it would. ;)

I have to agree with reading the home warranty since depending on the issuer it may not cover what the buyer thinks it does. My husband wanted one until I read him the fine print. At that time only two of the things we owned would have been covered because the rest were too old to be covered by that company although the advertising stated everything was covered. It also had a clause that the company would fix the appliances and other things if the parts were available. No parts nothing was covered. Each company covers different things so it is better to read than to be surprised.

Glad you worked it out!!