Flowers your roses are gorgeous! Thank you for the picture and the information. I think it is showing me that Dortmund would be too wide where I'm thinking of putting it and the prickles wouldn't be good for next to a walkway. Back to the drawing board for me. Thanks again!

flowers, I love that is more of an ombre effect that doesn't say, "Look at me!". A serendipitous choice!

mmmm, I agree. It might be an ongoing struggle to confine it to a narrow space. However, those pics from Cleveland Botanical Gardens are tempting.

Raspberry Cream Twirl is almost thornless, but might be a shrub in z5. I'm going to find out. I planted one last year. Dianela's photos are great examples of it growing on an arbor in z7.

Isabella Skinner is reportedly thornless and should reach the top of an arbor since it's hardy to z2.

Zephirine Drouhin is said to be thornless and is a well loved rose.

I hope you have fun finding your rose. So much of this is trial and error.

Flowers, I agree with Vapor that your choice together, while accidental, looks realy good. Thanks for all the good suggestions! I particularily like Raspberry Cream Twirl because it is so pretty. The colors and form are ones I love. Not sure if I should hunt it down (High Coutnry Roses doesn't carry it) or not. I will likely keep on eye on your posts to see how it does for you.

This year I'm trying Candy Land (similar look) because Matt from HCR says it does well at Hudson Gardens in the Denver area and I can't imagine they put up with a die back to the ground rose. I currently have Fourth of July in a pride of place location but it was such a runt last year that I am discouraged with it and may move it to make room for Candy Land.

I also looked into Reine Des Violettes which seems to fit the bill but I'm not sure I want a darker color there. It is in a courtyard that has night lights on it so something with white will show up beautifully at night.

Victorian Memory/Isabella Skinner is a good suggestion but unfortunately with it being a sunken courtyard I need something where the blooms are more skyward facing.

Zephirine Drouhin is one I had originally planned to buy last year for that space when I ended up going with Fourth of July. Matt is sort of warning me off ZD due to it's propensity to thrive and then die back completely in the Denver area. He even mentioned it at the Rose Symposium with an "uh, oh" when people want to ask about or talk about ZD. I get the feeling that something about Denver's climate is unsuitable.

Thanks, Vapor. I surprised myself by getting that red rose back when I didn't do red. I'd seen it in a pic of Ann Belovich's garden and just fell in love with it. It makes a nice exclamation mark at the end of my mixed border.

https://davidperryphoto.myportfolio.com/the-american-grande-dame-of-rambler-s

mmmm, your comment just showed up.

It's fortunate you have someone who can guide you specifically for your area. I've given up the dream of roses overhead. I am happy to have a few that climb halfway up an arbor with clematis filling in the rest of the way. Best combo so far is Jeanne Lajoie with Prince Charles clem. I am watching a few new ones that may be more vigorous. Lunar Mist might do the job. Lady Ashe and Coral Dawn are on trial. All three have thorns. Peggy Martin is definitely hardy and growing faster than any rose I've ever grown, but she grows laterally just as much as vertically.

Thanks for the article. It's fantastic eye-candy. Have you tried Felix LeClerc and Victorian Memory. I'm sure you've said before, but sometimes it all blends together! You have so many beautiful ones. I look forward to hearing how Lunar Mist does for you.

Vap, I can't tell you how many times I've had Felix LeClerc in my hands and put it back. He's easy to find here in body bags. Victorian Memory (Isabella Skinner) is one I'm hoping will grow to the top of an arbor. She's one of the super hardy Canadians. As mmmm said, her blooms are pendulous, so not great where you need upright blooms. I'm looking forward to seeing what Lunar Mist does, too! I had him a few years ago. A vole got him.

Do you grow any of these or the ones mmmm mentioned? I'd love to hear how they do in your neck of the woods, and your experience would help mmmm with her choices, too.

Of those Mmmm12 mentioned I have grown Candy Land. It was from a crappy vendor and was meant to be Viking Queen, but still a welcome surprise. Unfortunately, it was grafted so when I neglected to bury it sufficiently, it died in a Z6 -7F winter. :-(( I am planting RdV, FleC and VM/IS soon so I will report back. RdV is a tiny rooted cutting so it may take a while. One rose that has proven tip cane hardy through -7F winters is Peggy Martin. I will have more data next spring, hopefully on Purple Skyliner as well. However, that one has tiny thorns. Cl. Clotilde Soupert is also tip hardy, but just through the most recent +12F winter. She's probably a good one for a drier climate, but I love her so much. The bush form is not doing as well, but is also in a place where many roses that do well in other beds are struggling, so I think it's the placement.

Purple Skyliner is so pretty! But zone 6.

We'll see. If not I will try Quicksilver. FYI, as I'm sure you already know, the zone6 rating on HMF is a default setting. I have confidence in Purple Skyliner as a child of Veilchenblau x Yesterday, both extremely hardy roses. In any case, it was a cutting that happily rooted, so it's a "freeby"! :-))

Has anyone tried Cl. Angel Face for a hardy purple climber? It is in body bags at Walmart, my mother in law got a couple to try in her zone 4/5 and I am wondering if I should snap one up before they disappear or wait to see how hers do.

I'd get it unless you KNOW they'll have it next year. I'm still kicking myself for not getting Buxom Beauty and Crimson Glory a couple of years ago and they haven't had either since. Get it while you can if the price is right! ;-D

I'd say $6 is nothing to complain about! Thanks! I'll try and get one. I got Cl. Handel and am looking forward to seeing how it does.

flowers, a note on training Peggy Martin: one advantage of her lithe canes and lack of vicious prickles is that she can be bent any which way. In fact the more the better. Take her horizontal and when she is as far as she can go in that direction bend her back in the other direction. That way you can control her lateral growth if you don't have the space for that say on a lower fence, or if you want to grow her up a more narrow space such as a wall.

Thanks, Vapor. That's basically what I'm doing with her. She's on an oversized arbor that's attached to a picket fence, so part of her is going up and part of her is going horizontally. She may never reach the top of the arbor, but her lateral canes can go as far as they like. If I decide she's running rampant, I will double her back, as you said.

Joey, let us know if you do try Cl. Angel Face. That is exciting that you are able to try Cl. Handel, however don't be sad if it doesn't make it, although many "northern" rose nurseries do carry it. Snow cover should help a lot. I was not familiar with it, but recalled reading a reference to it in Peter Schneider's 'Right Rose, Right Place' where he suggests Paul Jerabek as a bushier, winter-hardy version of 'Handel, and one that will reach 10' with support in Z5 Northern Ohio where he lives. I have ordered PJ so I'll eventually be able to comment on it in my conditions.

Mmmm12, since it's raining today and I like to do nothing better than research hardier climber for myself and others, I hope you don't mind if I suggest some that you might like. I know you want a bright rose so I'm looking! ;-D

Please suggest away. My husband got the grafted bare root in the ground today. But I think it will be a while before I can persuade him to dig some more holes so I don't think I will be adding any more this year. However that doesn't mean I can't keep my eye out for the perfect rose to replace our old once bloomer.

I have a few I want him to move and that is going to be an uphill struggle plus we have the 4 I already bought from HCR coming in....

I think you need Lilyfinche's shovel! :-D You might start out by taking a look at Paul Jerabek mentioned above. It's seems like the type of rose you would like.

Actually he did use that one. We got it a few days ago. It is pretty heavy compared to what we thought it would be reading the reviews. But it does cut down pretty easily so he used that at the bottom of the hole and our larger one for removing the dirt. Also the pick to break things up and get things going.

I just looked up Paul Jerabek rose and it is beautiful! But not much on helpmefind. Do you know where it is sold? Edit: Found it at Freedom Gardens.

I'm sure Peter is the only source of many of these Jerabek roses since the breeder was from northern Ohio and was a friend of his. It's in his book 'RR, RP' where he raves about it. I've corresponded with others who say it's just a fantastic rose. I like ordering from him as all of his roses are taken from his garden and he'll happily tell you how they do there in terms of BS (not a problem for you) and hardiness. I've visited FG and found that a useful exercise since I know he doesn't really winter protect or spray so it's survival of the fittest. Only the HTs get any supplemental water past the first year, but of course, we get a lot of rain generally. I think there's some info over on the garden.org site as Zuzu grows many of his roses. They seem to do well in extremes! Here is a link: PJ. You can find commnts in the linked posts. I also grow Peggy M, one of the prettiest roses imaginable with gorgeous foliage. I'm already getting BS and it's not even the first flush, but this rose is perfect. Her is info from garden site: PM

Thanks Vapor, I really like the fact that it is zone 4. So tired of dead cane..... (yes I know I sound like a broken record). We lost some really old bushes this year that were the windbreak for the rose bed. So anything we put up there now is open to the north wind. We are also considering abandoning our under the deck drip line and as a result Pinata, Love Song and potentially Altissmo will move up to the rose bed. Altissmo has been there for 20+ years so we may just cut it off at the base and cover it with mulch. Probably too big to move.

Vapor, what do you think of New Dawn? I am going through my Growing Roses in Colorado book and they suggest that one. The thing that concerns me is the "some repeat". I kind of want alot of repeat.

Handel is listed for Colorado and looks very pretty. I'm going to research that one.

Edit, but they also list Lady in Red and that one died back. Hmmm. Maybe 1 year isn't enough for them to be established.

Mmmm I got Handel solely because it was bred by Sam McGredy. (Okay it looks really pretty too!) My first McGredy rose, Sexy Rexy, has been completely tip hardy for me, blooms early and nonstop, and is one of my favorite roses. I know that being from the same breeder isn't a guarantee of hardiness but it gives me hope anyway. So this year I am trying Oranges N Lemons, Olympiad and Handel.

Don't listen to me, Joey! : )) One can't argue with success! Peter gardens in Z5 Ohio with a lot of the freeze/thaw I encounter, but with more snow. Your snow cover and more even warm-up may really help with live cane in the spring. The problem I encounter is when a rose is rated for my zone when in reality that means it will just survive and have to regrow from the crown. This is OK for a bush-type rose, but to cover any real estate a climber must then be super vigorous. Peter has many suggestions for Z5 roses that do just that such as Dream Land.

I've seen OnL in Greely, Co and it is fantastic! I'm going to did up some pics from my IL's garden to see if anyone can ID them. They never save their labels! (Who are those people! LOL!!!), but grow some fantastic roses!

I also gravitate towards certain breeders and was drawn to Peggy M on the basis of its descriptions as having the delicacy of a McGredy hand-painted rose with the fullness of an Austin! Who could argue with that combo!? Handel is gorgeous!!! HCRs carries it so it's probably good for both you guys. Can't wait for the report! SexyRexy is one that's beautiful in Matt's greenhouse. I always consider it so I don't know why I don't have it yet. I love these big full pinks such as Belinda's Dream, Quietness and Parole.

mmmm12, I obviously love ND! It's my avatar and I grow 7 of them, most of which are original 1930s plantings and the others taken from them. I think many folks actually grow the once-blooming Dr. VanFleet from which ND sported OR neglect to dead-head. It is essential to dead-head this rose. If one does so, it repeats all summer when I often have little to admire in the upper beds. The 1st flush and last are truly spectacular and last quite a while. However, this rose has spectacularly long laterals so I prefer it on a fence, especially a shorter fence where one can just toss them over. For me, it would be hard to train to anything other than a large arbor. Also, look at Awakening, its double sport. Mine is exactly like the original in every way, but bloom form. Mine blooms less in a iffy, shady spot so I intend to move it. Both are tip hardy to -10F and easily survived the back-to-back Polar Vortexes of a few year ago. I'll post pics in a bit of younger plants.

Joey, Sexy Rexy always captures my attention and then I see the name and put her back. Same thing happens with Ketchup and Mustard. It they had been named Cotton Candy Puff and Hawaiian Sunset they would be in my yard already. Don't ask me how Playboy jump that mental barrier.

But with this good report Sexy Rexy is headed her next year, if not this year.

Do you have any full bush pictures of it in your yard?

Vapor, I think ND might be a bit much for my narrow walkway area. Thanks for the info!

Vapor New Dawn sounds like one I would really love, thanks for the review!! I'm off to research whether my snow cover would compensate for the -20 temps.

Oh goodness, mmmm12! I wouldn't consider it for a narrow walkway! Nightmare scenario!!! Have we seen a picture of this space? joey, do you have consistent snow cover all winter and if so how deep? The lowest temp the snow-covered canes will get is +32F! If you grow them along a fence you could always try laying them on the ground for the winter, but be careful with those thorns! Hats off to you growing your roses at that temp! Gee!

It is this one. We cut this (probably Dr. Huey) once bloomer down and put Fourth of July there last year. It was really runty. Didn't grow at all. I am really tempted to try Candy Land there if it will grow as nicely as Lady in Red. I haven't seen the flowers yet but the pictures another forum member posted were stunningly gorgeous and the color I would love to have in this location.

I was always cutting this one back to keep it in it's place so one could go up the steps without getting snagged. It was pretty easy to control. Only had to cut out a couple of long canes a year that headed that direction or over the bed or courtyard.

We have consistent snow 18 inches deep and above that it varies. There are places in the yard it stays drifted 7 feet deep and other places where it stays shallower. We had an unseasonably warm week in January where it hit 59F and melted down...but it had been at least 4 feet deep in the shallow places so even that warmth couldn't get it melted past 18-20 inches and all the roses stayed pretty safe.

That is fantastic joey. You could even shovel snow on canes that are exposed. mmmm12, I thought that was the space, but wasn't sure as I didn't remember the walkway. I've been looking through HCR's list today thinking of you. Would you ever consider a white? Matt raved about Guirlande d'Amour which I ordered for my friend. What about Blaze improved or Super ExIcelsia? I personally really like the colour of The Dr. with your Brick.

I realized to today that many of my roses planted in my new front bed 2019 have the weird frozen leaves and are way behind others in the same bed. I originally thought it was the varieties, but now I realize that area is more shaded at this time of the year so it's probably experiencing lower temps. While it wasn't killed down, LinR is struggling to leaf out while Cl. Pinkie is opening its first flower leading me to wonder about how well she'd do in a colder climate.

I'm starting to think John Cabot but we will probably give Fourth of July another year there and see how it does. I got all excited about Candy Land but after doing more research it appears to be more of short bush in colder climates so probably will do that here. But if it does better I will get anther for that spot. I would like something with bigger blooms or good solid clusters in that spot as things with smaller blooms don't show up well in my yard due to the size.

John Cabot looks like a good one! Have you considered Florentina, Quadra,, Rhode Island Red, Ramblin' Red or Rosarium Uetersen? I think Matt caries all of these excep RIR. You might also give Peter a call or drop him an email at FreedomGardens asking for some suggestions that will climb or are at least vigorous enough to put on huge growth in your shorter season. Everything he offers, he grows outside in his own Z5 garden which obviously has different conditions to yours, but is at least in the same ball park. You don't have to worry about BS so that is a plus. HCR has fabulous plants, but not all are grown outside so there is often no way to know how they'll do unless someone here grows it. Matt suggested Guirland d'Amour because a friend of his has a large specimen from which he got his cuttings so he knew it would climb and bloom well for me. How it does for BS, only time will tell. It's good that we can continue this conversation for another year! LOL!!! I hope 4th of July comes through for you.

mmmm12, I read that SR was a nickname for Rex Harrison and it's named after him. You could just call him Rex!

Vapor, you are solving my mental barrier to unfortunately named roses again! Thanks!

Vapor, thank you for enlightening me. I did not know roses could have multiple names. Apparently Sexy Rexy also goes by Heckenzauber and MACRexy. Clearly rose naming was not this guy's talent.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.5702.2

Joey, do you have any full bush pictures of your Sexy Rexy. I am half a click away from putting it in my cart. I little eye candy is all I need to get me to push that button. Thanks!

mmmm12, I'm sure you know this, but for others, MACRexy is the breeder's name which remains "stable". The first portion are the first letters of the breeder's name and the rest refer to the chosen name or just reference an attribute of the rose. For example, AUSBlush is the identifying name of Austin's Heritage, a blush rose. This is how one can ID his roses that many can no longer sell by their common name due to copyright restrictions. It's also useful for sorting through multiple roses having the same name such as Bolero. Once one knows Meidelweis is the variety we all want in the main, it makes getting that one much easier. Hope this helps someone down the line. I will say though, even Sexy Rexy is better than Heckenzauber!!! LOL!!!

Vapor, I had no idea. Thank you for the explanation!

I'm sorry I don't have any MACrexy bush pictures but I did find this one of the first bloom it put out as a baby band. It has a nice rounded habit, similar height to width, and is leafing out beautifully this spring.

mmm12, for the longest time I couldn't understand why one of my favourite roses, Tooth Fairy, was also called Bagtooth. I'd never heard of that alternate name. It wasn't until learning this bit of information that I figured out the "Bag" part referred to the breeder John Bagnasco!

Gorgeous pictures of your Dortmund flowers, as well as the ones from Cleveland, Mmmm, if my Dr. Huey could look that good he could stay in my yard. Well, actually I do have him more or less deliberately climbing around my mailbox that gets totally swamped by a vigorous white clematis.

Since we're all relatively cold zone rose growers musing about roses for various spots, I'll throw in my two cents. Realize of course that I do NOT have reliable snow cover and our wicked swings of temperature in the winter (and even down to 17 for a few days in early April this year) do in a lot of roses. What doesn't thrive for me might do fine for you. Dortmund I haven't grown because he didn't trip my buttons yet till I saw Flowers' lovely pictures and heard that he blooms all season. He's now working onto next year's possible list.

Among the ones that have been mentioned, here are my experiences:

Leonardo da Vinci - tall and narrow in a way that might suit that space instead of Dr. H, but not thornless. Mine is mostly cane hardy in z5, but doesn't bloom as often as I'd like (also in part sun at best though)

Raspberry Cream Twirl might be a shrub in someone's z5 garden but has never survived even in my virtual z6 with pampering

Victorian Memory - planted it once a few years ago and it didn't overwinter but I'm thinking that has to be a fluke (z2 rated for heaven's sake) so I'm replacing it this year

Zephrine Drouhin - I have tried this one a couple of times including my protected spot and it never survived the winters. Even when happy I've heard it's a virtual once bloomer

Candy Land, cl. - like RCT I can't get this one to survive even in my protected area and if it did I can't get it to climb

Fourth of July - took a couple of tries to get this one to "take" but in my protected spot it's heading into its third spring with a good 6-8" of surviving cane and should do better by next year.

Reine des Violettes - I've had "not RdV" for about 10 years and it is a thorny once-bloomer. If you want a thornless climber I think this is absolutely your best bet, just be sure to get the real RdV. Matt has contacted me and says he's now sure he has the real thing. Mine was a small band of the real RdV a few years ago so it's just now starting to reach for its supports to climb.

Jeanne laJoie - I had her climbing for years on a shepherd's hook in my z6 area and she'd reach a good 6-7' by the end of the season. She mostly bloomed in June though, even in max sun, and I never got much rebloom. She faded after about 6 years and I tried replacing her, but other roses took priority

Lunar Mist (and its cousin Colette) - I've been a fan of Lunar Mist ever since it has staked a modest claim on fence area near Lady Ashe. It has a little surviving cane most years and can get to 8-10'. Not quite arch-worthy, but somewhat better survival than Colette and in harsher conditions too

Lady Ashe - I like this rose and it can get to a decent 6-8' on a good year. I have mine in a particularly harsh spot that's more z4 than 5. She can die to the ground some years, but she and Dublin Bay have hung in there for a good 10 years so they earn their space. I like the color and bloom form but neither gets all that big.

Coral Dawn - this is a sport (I think) of New Dawn so it has some of the same benefits and down sides. Oddly enough this one was a body bag and has survived Ok for me, climbing to maybe 5' by the end of the season, but I've never been able to get New Dawn beyond about 3' and it always eventually dies on me. White Dawn however I have planted grafted from about 3 years ago and it's a good 4' wide and 5' tall and counting in a prime location with some nice blooms.

Peggy Martin - that's one I haven't grown and I had hesitated because it has a reputation as a once bloomer, and there are prettier flowers on some other once-bloomers I've coveted. How is the repeat on yours Vapor/Flowers?? She's definitely a survivor. and your recommendation is compelling

Felix LeClerc - you know by now that I LOVE this rose and it's one of the first to start and last to stop. Not nonstop blooms but I have photos from every month from its start in late May through November. Absolutely cane hardy and delightful dark purple-pink double blooms. Mine is a huge 10' "self supporting" shrub because I planted him too far from the fence, not knowing he was a climber at first. I have a 5' ring fence around him that keeps him more or less upright but I wouldn't recommend him for that small space. Mine keeps trying to eat the gateway to my neighbor's yard

Purple Skyliner - I could never get this one to survive which puzzled me because Veilchenblau is such a trooper, though Yesterday isn't very hardy so maybe that's it

Clothilde Soupert, cl. - my regular Clothilde is about 8 years old and blooms off and on with more or less surviving cane. If any rose will ever ball in your yard, CS will so don't plan on having open blooms unless you have a pretty dry climate

Quicksilver - Moses just sings this roses' praises but I've tried about 4 times, grafted and not, and I can't get it to survive more than a year in a typical zone 5 spot. I'll try her again next year in my protected spot, but I don't expect it to climb even there

Angel Face cl. - given that climbing versions of roses are usually less vigorous than the originals I have trouble imagining what climate this one would climb in, since Angel Face has a reputation for being a wimp even in California. I have one that just barely survives in my z6 area and can bloom occasionally at 6" but not remotely vigorous. Poseidon is what you want for a tall lavender in our cold climates.
Crimson Glory - this one bloomed for several years grafted in a normal spot but I haven't been able to replace it successfully. I only have the HT not climbing form. Buxom Beauty only grudgingly survives in my zone 6 areas now and then

Handel - I had this one on the side of an arch for about 10 years and it would get to about 4' or so by then end of the season. Not that much bloom and a relative wimp compared to other Kordes roses. Antique 89 is a little better at having surviving cane in a similar color range, but not a frequent bloomer

Paul Jerabek - I have asked Roses Unlimited for this rose for about 6 years, and they never have had it in stock. A lot of Jerabek roses do well for me - Paw Maw isn't in great conditions but it has hung in there for about 4-5 winters. Have to try Freedom Gardens

Lady in Red - this one looked so nice in its first year that I had high hopes but even in our last mild winter it had no surviving cane and might not have survived. Florentina can beat this rose in every way and it doesn't usually have much dieback

Pinata - I used to grow this one as a knee high shrub when I had it grafted but I haven't been able to get it to survive own root even in my most protected area

Altissimo - looks to have survived the winter just fine, but only in its second year so no particular blooms to speak of

Oranges 'n' Lemons, Sexy Rexy, Olympiad - all of these survive reasonably well in a normal z5 spot for me so it's definitely worth a go in z4 with snow cover Joe. Olympiad, Chrysler Imperial, and Veteran's Honor are probably my hardiest z5 HT reds. None of these get big for me though - 3' max

Guirlande d'Amour - I love this rose and it's rock solid hardy for me even in part sun, but it gets huge - easily 6'X6' or more with blooms off and on all season. I have trouble seeing it as a traditional climber in my zone but I have encouraged it to be self supporting. Heavenly Pink is like this one, or Darlow's Enigma - they get big but it's hard to call them "climbers". Great and tough roses, even for z4!

Super Excelsia - I tried this once in less than ideal circumstances and might try it again, but Peggy Martin sounds better from your reports

Pinkie cl.- not remotely hardy for me in 5 or 6 tries, neither is Renae or sadly its lovely offspring Annie Laurie McDowell (too bad because they're thornless)

Blaze Improved - never got around to trying that one, but offhand I'd say Florentina is prettier, and Fields of the Wood/Rhode Island Red is much more hardy. Not a tremendously frequent bloomer but mine has a good 6' of cane after winter and will be putting out laterals shortly. Rambling Red or Rhode Island Red can survive zone 4 winters and I had a Rambling Red in my z4 pocket in lousy conditions for years before it finally faded. Quadra is more pink than any of those climbers (all of them can pink out a bit in heat), and it's by far the most traditional climber and the best rebloomer by far. It's one of my two biggest climbers - the other is the "ground cover" Sunrise Sunset that gets positively massive. Both of those need a big arch, not just a trellis or single support or fence.

John Cabot - lovely rose but also floppy and spreading, not a traditional climber. Mine is maybe 8-10' tall and 4-5' wide, with 5' fencing around it. I have mine next to the very similar Alexander Mackenzie, and AM wins in both size and frequency of bloom. They take a good 5 years to settle in and rebloom, and they do blackspot if you are prone to that in your zone

Rosarium Uetersen is mostly cane hardy for me and would look nice against that brick. it's a pretty vivid coral and its spring bloom is nice, but I don't get much rebloom and mine is over 10 years old. It's really thorny too.

Yeah, I know - here goes Cynthia rambling on about all these roses just because she's killed (or occasionally successfully grown) most of them. I'm happy to encourage you to learn from my mistakes.

So what would I recommend for that spot mmmm? You might think about something tall and narrow that's self supporting since any kind of structure is going to jut out into your walkway. Offhand, roses that fit that bill in my yard would include Poseidon (lavender), Leonardo da Vinci (dark pink), Dark Desire (dark red), Queen of Sweden (light pink), and maybe Sweet Fragrance (luscious coral apricot) if you prune it in a bit. Another likely option is Aloha, which I have as a narrow self-supporting shrub with just a shepherd's hook for support. It reblooms well in medium pink and stays around 6-8' within a 3' radius. Polka is another climber that's entirely hardy in our zone, a wonderful dark apricot double, and it never gets very bushy. It mostly puts out a few blooms at the end of its one main cane. Laguna is a pretty reliable climber in dark pink and it doesn't get out of hand. Ascot is a dark red narrow columnar bush for me, though it gets huge for Diane in zone 7 Idaho. Two roses that get much bigger than the front of the bed where I put them are Champagne Moment/Lion's Fairy Tale (cream) and Dame des Chenonceau (pink) - I have them cascading over a low fence but they might stay in bounds with a tall narrow support. Petal Pushers is a stalwart tough little climber that J&P puts out that I've had for a good 8 years. It's mannerly and would stay within that area pretty well with a support, and it blooms pink off and on all season.

So if you like the dark contrast of the Dr H but want rebloom, I'd go with the column-type Dark Desire, Florentina, or Rhode Island Red. Aloha or Lady Ashe would fit the bill nicely in the pink range, and Poseidon can take care of lavender while Lunar Mist takes yellow and Sweet Fragrance takes apricot. I can't think of anything remotely thornless though, and if Peggy Martin is indeed a thornless rebloomer and that's a priority, that's where I'd go (or Reine des Violette). The only other thornless hardy rose I can think of in my yard is Veilchenblau and there's no way he'd stay contained in that space.

Just rambling myself, but FWIW those are my impressions

Cynthia

I love your descriptions! Is Dark Desire hardy for you. Mine are both total wimps in the best spot in my yard. I must be doing something wrong. : (( Florentina is tip hardy in a cold Z6 winter. Have you had any luck with Viking Queen. Mine do fantastic in the best spots.

Cynthia, This is incredibly helpful! Thank you so much. It sounds like we have similar climates. Very cold but the snow cover comes and goes with wild temperature swings. I have read through your posts but will do research on each suggestion tomorrow (too tired tonight). When I pick up my roses at HCR I can ask them to bring out blooms for the ones that sound good for my spot so your post is very timely since I was hoping to get over there this week to get my orders.

I am leaning away from red for that spot so I really appreciate your color suggestions. I probably will let Fourth of July go another year there to see how I like it. I am partial to the singles and the roses that bloom in clusters (like Sally Holmes) as opposed to the more traditional even coverage roses.

Nipsstress, I always appreciate so much your lists and reviews. We are a good example of how different the same zone can be in different locations. In some cases, our experiences are the same, but not for every rose.

I love that you mentioned Lunar Mist and Lady Ashe together. Those two spent winter in the garage, look ok, not great, and are going on the same arbor as soon as I get the holes dug. My first Lunar Mist was growing upward very quickly but voles got it at about 6'. I'm sure it would have gone at least a couple feet higher. Colette does great here. My oldest one is about 15 years old. I like the look of both sides of an arbor with the same rose, but I am limited on places to grow climbers.

Peggy Martin has had no water, food - nothing - from me so far this year, and she looks healthy. I just haven't made my way to that part of the garden yet. So far, I'm pleased with her. I was so taken by the story around her, have ties to the south, and have fond memories of vacationing in New Orleans, so I'm growing her for those reasons. There are photos of her growing in the garden of Teresa Byington, who writes The Garden Diary blog, that impressed me. A z5 in Indiana that's very different from my z5. Her growing season always starts before mine.

Regrettably, I removed my vigorous Cape Diamond. I agree she is a good cold climate rose. I planted mine in a bed of floribundas, never expecting such robust growth. I tried winding her around an obelisk, but she was just too big for that bed. I couldn't imagine moving her. She was too big and thorny to wrestle with.

A big surprise this year was losing Quicksilver. I have sung her praises along with Mr. Moses, and recommended it for cold zones. It has been so reliably winter hardy until this mild winter. She must have succumbed to the spring freezes we've had. I'm sad to lose her because there are precious few lavenders that will grow for me.

I feel the same about Jeanne Lajoie. Never more than 6' tall. If she dies, I won't replace her. There are others higher up on the list. Sweetest little blooms, but the smaller the blooms and foliage, the harder it is to pick pine needles out of the bush.

I have not tried Super Excelsa, but Super Dorothy, a close relative I believe, does great here. It literally covers a huge pergola at a local park.

I have made note of your successes and wish I had bought Polka instead of Victorian Memory, but, with our differences, Victorian M might be a winner.