Dawn Dishsoap New Zealand Springs Question
Bumblebeez SC Zone 7
4 years ago
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Lyban zone 4
4 years ago
Bunny
4 years agoRelated Discussions
How to prune New Dawn and Graham Thomas
Comments (6)How long have you had these roses? I ask because, in my experience, New Dawn is an extremely vigorous, even unruly grower. I'm in Italy, about a zone 8 or so, mediterranean climate. I foolishly planted mine in a central area of my garden,on a path... "foolishly", because it turned into a gigantic shrub, a mass of long, thorny laterals all over.Every year I dreaded having to attempt to prune it. In the I dug it out; it was just the wrong place for such a vigorous, thorny rose. Someday I hope to get it again, but I will plant it off in a place where it can just grow as a rambler and do as it likes,growing up into trees, maybe fencing out and frightening off intruders with it's wicked ,dense and thorny branches, instead of terrorizing me, lol! I think this rose could be grown as a climber up a wall, for example, if one was willing to keep up with it , religiously tying in those long laterals, etc., but I think it would require devotion. Hopefully more people will weigh in with more successful stories. I don't mean to be discouraging; this was one of my first roses and I had no experience; mainly it was the wrong rose for that spot in my garden. But I don't think you need to worry about how to ENCOURAGE New Dawn to get big and bushy; I think you need to think ahead of how to control and contain it!...See Morenew dawn—own root vs grafted root question
Comments (11)Hi Saki Glad these comments were helpful, and we're always eager to help a beginning rose grower feel confident with their roses. The photo you posted is a lovely and very mature specimen of what looks like two or maybe even 3 climbing roses all splayed out horizontally along the fence. You can see one "fan" of canes spreading out from just right of center and another fan spreading from the left 1/3 of the photo. I can't tell if the cane stretching straight up in the center is part of a third plant with a few lateral canes or not. This effect is definitely a great thing to strive for, but I'd be totally depressed if I tried to get all my climbers to look like this, since not all climbers put out as many primary canes coming straight out of the soil as this one does. I'll show you two contrasting climbers for example. Colette looks the most like the photo above with several canes coming straight out of the soil that I'm encouraging sideways on my fence. Do remember that climbing roses have to be secured in some way to the fence - they won't climb on their own like clematis or other vines will. Mine is probably 3 years old, and you can see that it has three main canes out of the soil (I usually call them primary canes in a climber, but they come out of the base and I presume the terms are the same thing). Mine is own-root so there isn't a graft from which these canes split off, but if I'd buried my graft the 2-4" that is recommended in cold zones, it would look a lot like this too. Now, the reason you distinguish between primary canes and laterals in a climber, is that your blooms aren't mostly going to be directly on those primary canes that you bend sideways. Even in a young climber like this, you can see that the blooms are in smaller off-shoot canes that branch off vertically from these horizontal main canes - we call these lateral canes. The main/primary canes are toward the bottom of the fence, but the blooming laterals stretch up a good 2-3' higher than the primary canes. The more horizontal you can stretch your canes, the more likely the rose will put out laterals all the way along the length of those primary canes. That means you can have a fence full of blooms from only a few primary canes, even if the rose puts out a limited "fan" of canes. As Colette ages, she might put out more base canes, but I doubt I'd get the rich "forest" of canes in the photo above even when she's mature - particularly in any climbers that lose cane over the winter. Still, I'm confident she'll fill this part of the fence in another 2 years or so. Here's another rose that for me grows in a somewhat different habit. I've only seen one primary cane off the base of my Lunar Mist, and it's more like 4-5 years old. I bend it sideways in the same way as I do the Colette above, and it sends up laterals all along the length. Same principles of laterals and primary canes as above, it's just that the base of the rose is at one end of the array and the blooms arch off to one side off the primary cane that I've bent sideways. You can't quite see the base of Lunar Mist here, but it's off to the right and below the picture here, below where the clematis is. My New Dawn never got mature in the poor location under my oak tree, and we'll see what the new grafted version wants to do now, but at the moment it just has one big cane that I've stretched sideways like the Lunar Mist above. Climbers are very different when young vs. when mature, though, so you have to be patient with them. It usually takes at least 4-5 years before a climber has built up enough root structure to support a robust blooming rose, and not all of them will build this kind of fan structure very widely. Some will be more of a "rainbow" like my Lunar Mist. Regardless, the principle is the same and we encourage more growth of canes from the base in climbers as we do in any rose, with adequate water, maybe some alfalfa to encourage basal breaks, and patience, patience, patience. The rose will "tell" you what it wants to do over time. Just be sure to bend the young canes sideways when it's young, as robust climbers like New Dawn can get pretty stiff and woody in their primary canes over time, and they're much harder to bend. Hope that helps. Cynthia...See MoreNew Dawn advice
Comments (23)That's more than one bush. I planted 3 different one's at the same time. From the left are red roses which barely grow and I think has thrips. Next to the red is white, then ND next to it. To the right of ND are Knockout's. Help me figure something out. Does New Dawn come in white also? I can't remember the white rose's name. But I can remember the pink ND. Do you think the 2nd bush is of the ND family? I might as well ask here, should I destroy the red rose bush? It forms large buds then never open. Thankfully the disease never spread to the other bushes but the red has had the same disease since I planted it. I need to read up on sport. Never heard about it before i/r/t roses. My goal is for a fence line and if the ND won't bloom more than once, I need to find a vine of some sort that can grow in it....See MoreDawn Dishsoap????
Comments (26)Why do you recommend adding vinegar/citric acid to distilled/deionized water? Is that type of water alkaline? No - deionized/distilled water should be pH neutral. How does acidifying it help with the soap solution? From something I wrote on another thread: pH is based on a logarithmic scale from 1 to 14. Where a pH of 7 is neutral, a pH of 6 is 10 times more acidic than a pH of 7. Many insecticides are sensitive to pH levels because of something called hydrolysis, which is a chemical process whereby larger molecule with insecticidal properties are broken (cleaved) into smaller (ionic) particles that may totally lack any insecticidal properties when they recombine with other smaller particles. How much effect hydrolysis has on insecticides depends on the insecticide's chemistry, water pH, water temp, exposure to sunlight, and how long the mixture has been in the spray container. Neem oil and insecticidal soaps are susceptible to alkaline hydrolysis, which means that a pH greater than 7.0 causes degradation, so adjusting your spray water to a pH from 5.5 - 6.5 for neem products and no lower than 8.0 for insecticidal soap applications is beneficial; whereas some pesticides are affected by acid hydrolysis at pH levels below 7.0, so they should be mixed with water adjusted to pH levels from 7.5 - 8. In either case, the sooner you use the spray mixture, the more effective it will be. White vinegar or citric acid (from a wine-making supply store) are very effective at reducing water's pH. This will leave you wondering, why then should I acidify my water? Insecticidal soaps are very alkaline and will raise the pH of the water you're using (even distilled water) well above a pH of 8.0 where it will degrade quickly - especially so if your water contains Ca/Mg. Since insecticidal soaps have no residual knockdown effect and depend on solution contact with the pests in order to be effective, you could skip the acidification w/o a significant reduction in effectiveness if using deionized/distilled water, but it would still be helpful if you acidified hard water. If it's fatty acids wouldn't it be acidic anyway? No - mixing an acid with a base yields a salt. The issue of high pH/alkalinity arises when there is more than enough base to neutralize all of the acid, which is the case with insecticidal soap and why its pH is usually between 10.0-11.0. And when you say a tablespoon of vinegar, what amount of soap solution is that for? A quart? A gallon? My bad. It's per gallon. Al...See More
maddielee
4 years ago
Bestyears
4 years agoBumblebeez SC Zone 7
4 years ago
denali2007
4 years ago
neetsiepie
4 years ago
maskerade
3 years ago
cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
3 years ago
Oakley
3 years agoHU-753479426
3 years agolascatx
3 years ago
Olychick
3 years ago
I usually buy Palmolive and don't find it's heavily scented. I've
purchased plain old Dawn before and like it okay, too. Last year, before
the shutdown, I bought one of these at Costco to take to a friend's
cabin where I am frequently a guest. I try to bring some supplies to
replenish what gets used when I visit, but someone else had brought the
same exact thing that weekend, so she insisted I bring mine home (not a
lot of storage). I began using it during the shut down because I was out
of my regular and it's quite nice. It says it is citrus, but I
do not get that scent from it at all. It's very lightly scented (I'd
prefer none) but it's not at all offensive. I use it at the sink to wash
my hands, too, and it's very gentle. Seems to cut grease well, too.
With costco's generous return policy, you might want to try it - it's
not heavily colored either. It's lighter, more transparent than this pic
shows.
Bumblebeez SC Zone 7 thanked Olychick
Lars
3 years agoBumblebeez SC Zone 7
3 years ago
deegw
3 years agoOakley
3 years agoOlychick
3 years ago
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