how to install herringbone shower wall when floor isn’t level
l1989
4 years ago
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4 years agolast modified: 4 years agol1989
4 years agoRelated Discussions
leveling plywood floor before hardibacker is installed + confirm
Comments (6)I don't have a good enough grasp on 1) and 2) to comment. Photos would help. Regardless, the idea is as you wrote, get the floor FLAT. Level is nice, but not required. Flat is important, even more so when you use larger tiles. 3) Yes, SLC can be fine. But before using, I'd take out the tile (done) and the "very thin layer of plywood" under the tile (if not done). IF the subfloor underneath is fine, then add 3/8" or 1/2" plywood over that, screwed. That should give you a nice 1-1/8" minimum of structure under the tile. Then you can SLC over that if appropriate. It might not be appropriate if, for example, the doorway into the bath is the low point in the room. You might not want a half-inch lip of SLC at the threshold. SLC will run wherever you let it. Caulk, tape, or somehow seal or dam up wherever you don't want it to go. Think of it as water. If there's a crevice or passageway available, it'll flow there. Best to have two people, one mixing and the other placing. You want to get it all down NOW and help it where it needs to be helped, then let it self-level. 4) Yes. Just remember that thinset is THINset, not THICKset. If you need a thick build, then use a medium bed mortar, or just mix your own, portland cement an sand. 5) You can use whatever you want, unmodified is used because it's simply less expansive. You don't need a strong bond to hold the cement board down. That's what the screws do. The thinset is simply a gap-filler, it prevents vertical movement between the cement board and the plywood. So unmodified or modified will work. 6) Modified. 7) I use white modified thinset. White is important if the glass is translucent. Gray will muddle the color of the glass. Watch ridge marks too. Uncompressed ridges/valleys can telegraph through some glass tiles....See MoreShower drain installed off-center in subfloor - how to fix? Urgent...
Comments (14)417.5 Shower floors or receptors. Floor surfaces shall be constructed of impervious, noncorrosive, nonabsorbent and waterproof materials. 417.5.1 Support. Floors or receptors under shower compartments shall be laid on, and supported by, a smooth and structurally sound base. 417.5.2 Shower lining. Floors under shower compartments, except where prefabricated receptors have been provided, shall be lined and made water tight utilizing material complying with Sections 417.5.2.1 through 417.5.2.4. Such liners shall turn up on all sides at least 2 inches (51 mm) above the finished threshold level. Liners shall be recessed and fastened to an approved backing so as not to occupy the space required for wall covering, and shall not be nailed or perforated at any point less than 1 inch (25 mm) above the finished threshold. Liners shall be pitched one-fourth unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) and shall be sloped toward the fixture drains and be securely fastened to the waste outlet at the seepage entrance, making a water-tight joint between the liner and the outlet. 417.5.2.1 PVC sheets. Plasticized polyvinyl chloride (PVC) sheets shall be a minimum of 0.040 inch (1.02 mm) thick, and shall meet the requirements of ASTM D 4551. Sheets shall be joined by solvent welding in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions. 417.5.2.2 Chlorinated polyethylene (CPE) sheets. Nonplasticized chlorinated polyethylene sheet shall be a minimum 0.040 inch (1.02 mm) thick, and shall meet the requirements of ASTM D 4068. The liner shall be joined in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions. 417.5.2.3 Sheet lead. Sheet lead shall not weigh less than 4 pounds per square foot (19.5 kg/m2) coated with an asphalt paint or other approved coating. The lead sheet shall be insulated from conducting substances other than the connecting drain by 15-pound (6.80 kg) asphalt felt or its equivalent. Sheet lead shall be joined by burning. 417.5.2.4 Sheet copper. Sheet copper shall conform to ASTM B 152 and shall not weigh less than 12 ounces per square foot (3.7 kg/m2). The copper sheet shall be insulated from conducting substances other than the connecting drain by 15-pound (6.80 kg) asphalt felt or its equivalent. Sheet copper shall be joined by brazing or soldering. SECTION P2709 SHOWER RECEPTORS P2709.1 Construction. Where a shower receptor has a finished curb threshold, it shall be not less than 1 inch (25 mm) below the sides and back of the receptor. The curb shall be not less than 2 inches (51 mm) and not more than 9 inches (229 mm) deep when measured from the top of the curb to the top of the drain. The finished floor shall slope uniformly toward the drain not less than 1/4 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) nor more than 1/2 unit vertical per 12 units horizontal (4-percent slope) and floor drains shall be flanged to provide a water-tight joint in the floor. P2709.2 Lining required. The adjoining walls and floor framing enclosing on-site built-up shower receptors shall be lined with one of the following materials: Sheet lead; Sheet copper; Plastic liner material that complies with ASTM D 4068 or ASTM D 4551; Hot mopping in accordance with Section P2709.2.3; or Sheet-applied load-bearing, bonded waterproof membranes that comply with ANSI A118.10. The lining material shall extend not less than 2 inches (51 mm) beyond or around the rough jambs and not less than 2 inches (51 mm) above finished thresholds. Sheet-applied load bearing, bonded waterproof membranes shall be applied in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions. P2709.2.1 PVC sheets. Plasticized polyvinyl chloride (PVC) sheet shall meet the requirements of ASTM D 4551. Sheets shall be joined by solvent welding in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions. P2709.2.2 Chlorinated polyethylene (CPE) sheets. Nonplasticized chlorinated polyethylene sheet shall meet the requirements of ASTM D 4068. The liner shall be joined in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions. P2709.2.3 Hot-mopping. Shower receptors lined by hot mopping shall be built-up with not less than three layers of standard grade Type 15 asphalt-impregnated roofing felt. The bottom layer shall be fitted to the formed subbase and each succeeding layer thoroughly hot-mopped to that below. All corners shall be carefully fitted and shall be made strong and water tight by folding or lapping, and each corner shall be reinforced with suitable webbing hot-mopped in place. All folds, laps and reinforcing webbing shall extend not less than 4 inches (102 mm) in all directions from the corner and all webbing shall be of approved type and mesh, producing a tensile strength of not less than 50 pounds per inch (893 kg/m) in either direction. P2709.2.4 Liquid-type, trowel-applied, load-bearing, bonded waterproof materials. Liquid-type, trowel-applied, load-bearing, bonded waterproof materials shall meet the requirements of ANSI A118.10 and shall be applied in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions. P2709.3 Installation. Lining materials shall be sloped one-fourth unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) to weep holes in the subdrain by means of a smooth, solidly formed subbase, shall be properly recessed and fastened to approved backing so as not to occupy the space required for the wall covering, and shall not be nailed or perforated at any point less than 1 inch (25.4 mm) above the finished threshold. P2709.3.1 Materials. Lead and copper linings shall be insulated from conducting substances other than the connecting drain by 15-pound (6.80 kg) asphalt felt or its equivalent. Sheet lead liners shall weigh not less than 4 pounds per square foot (19.5 kg/m2). Sheet copper liners shall weigh not less than 12 ounces per square foot (3.7 kg/m2). Joints in lead and copper pans or liners shall be burned or silver brazed, respectively. Joints in plastic liner materials shall be jointed per the manufacturer’s instructions. P2709.4 Receptor drains. An approved flanged drain shall be installed with shower subpans or linings. The flange shall be placed flush with the subbase and be equipped with a clamping ring or other device to make a water-tight connection between the lining and the drain. The flange shall have weep holes into the drain....See MoreGrout issues with shower floor tile and wall tile installs
Comments (8)Ok so, so sorry but here: Master- 1) Lay-out is awful. You shouldn't have that small tile at the inside (a pro balances the lay-out prior to install). Yes your concerns regarding uneven and improper slope are valid. Pretty basic standard for tile installation, especially on a shower floor where proper pitch to drain is imperative. Being concerned about the damage occurring from tearing it out is a mute point as you will have major issues as it is. 2) As others have stated, that should be caulk and always caulk at change of planes, not grout. And no, it isn't common for professionals to install on a surface that isn't plumb and flat. If either the general or the tile contractor do not shim and level to prepare for tile, then standards are being ignored and you have a problem. It's poorly done. 3) That is the very cheapest drain assembly available (if it was speced and this was a very low end build, then maybe that was to be expected but as a customer you should be aware of the quality of the product being used). Very unprofessional job around the drain. It should be cut so nicely around the drain that you don't even notice the grout. It is definitely not an "average job". In the tile world, we would call it a "hack job". Guest - 1) Multiple possibilities for the grout pinholes, all related to skill and craftsmanship. Could you dab grout in those places and hope it looks a little better? If you bought a new car would you ask them to fix the paint or dents before you drove it off the lot? You shouldn't need to do patch work on something new. 2) Caulk but remove grout first. 3) Caulk and color match, not clear. Clear is a bad idea there. Now, I'm sorry if we sound harsh. It's an exciting time to move into a new home. If consumers do not hold the builders to basic standards, there will continue to be builders that take short cuts and perform sub-standard work. ALL builds should adhere to basic standards and there is no excuse for what you are seeing. (I hate to say it but I'd be concerned about the methods used to build and waterproof the wet areas, what you can't see, based on what you can see). One place to start is to ask your contractor to document how all aspects of the tile work conform to TCNA industry standards....See MoreFinished pony wall is 7 1/4 inches thick - isn't too large!?
Comments (27)"So you think it would look and feel less cramped with curb on the right side too? (been wondering if its just me and if it would really look better." Personally, I'm not certain how it would look. If it was open to the right of the shower, I could see curb to ceiling glass working. But with a vanity on that right side, some folks object visually to a wall of glass next to the solid side of the vanity. The visual from inside the shower can look awkward as well unless you're a nifty cleaner. "I dont like how they tiled the curb and top of pony walls either. Seems to me they could have use a long side of tile and have no grout lines ... If your tiles are long enough to completely cover the top of the pony walls with no grout lines, that would have been a nice move. I can't tell from the photo, but I'm not certain that they are. Because of that, if they did run them the long way, you'd have an orphaned grout line somewhere on the top of the pony, not lining up with anything else. I think what they did was proper, carrying the grout line from the two sidewalls across the top of the pony. What Nancy wrote in her previous comment is most common, carrying a material from another horizontal surface in the bathroom over to the pony walls and curb. It depends on where the glass will be set, but the tops of the ponies may see water. It's common in that case to pitch them (as well as the curb) slightly into the shower for drainage. The curb, they could have run the tiles the long way...but they lined up the tile layout and the grout lines on the curb with the tile and grout lines on the back wall. I have to say, I think they did a nice job marrying up the layout so it all looks ordered and cohesive. "We want them thiner too. " Was there ever an intent to use the top of the pony as a storage shelf? Shampoo, soap, razor, etc? You can have the ponies made thinner, but that's a whole new can of wax, a serious discussion to be had with your GC. Good luck with it, I hope you find satisfaction in the end....See Morel1989
4 years agoMint tile Minneapolis
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agol1989
4 years agoDragonfly Tile & Stone Works, Inc.
4 years agol1989
4 years ago
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