Agreed, 3katz. I tried to keep my post factual and as apolitical as possible.

I’ve started taking screen shots of the JohnsHopkins map to compare the growth each day. Scary. I also check our state’s (Florida) health department site. It has a chart listing cases, County, and if the disease was related to travel.

Today - Thursday

Monday

@3katz4me, I agree with you. I found Joe Rohan’s interview of Michael Osterholm to be the most informative and dispassionate information I’ve seen so far. https://youtu.be/E3URhJx0NSw (I also agree with you on trying to keep this non-political.)

This is an interesting infographic, but I have no idea of the reliability of the site.

Maddie, that’s a good idea To screenshot the map. Denmark jumped from 100 cases to 500 in just a few days, and overnight they went to 600. but as the map gets redder, it will be harder to tell the differences. You have to choose your locale to track the numbers.

bbstx I was going to post that link as soon as I finished this thread - glad you posted.

In addition to WSJ, some Atlantic articles, NPR and local news for things close to home, I do watch one network news show that has a lower drama level than others, but I still filter. I've found most of the information to still be accurate once the hype is cleared away. I have only glanced at the JH map a couple of times - that's a wake up call.

This is from our local news anchor in Denver. I love his take on listening to the experts.

Our governor has been great about informing the public and we've had drive-up testing sites for a few days.

I have changed Rohan to roGan 3 times now. It won’t stay changed! 🤦🏻‍♀️

@deegw, that might be The Best analogy of this situation I’ve ever seen!

I like this chart. Not sure if I found it here or someplace else. About 2 hours ago it said the USA had a total number of 1338 cases. Now it says 1364 cases.

I also found the Michael Osterholm very informative. Thank you for sharing!!!

Looking at the chart, DH commented “looks like Olympic medal counts”. Nothing like whistling in the dark to alleviate tension. Besides, laughing boosts the immune system.

I listen to NPR most of the day. I read the paper/ I watch network news. I do not get any news from Facebook or from Fox.

The only people I listen to are healthcare workers or scientists. DT should be far removed from this situation even if he "knows more about the virus than anyone else." I turned the tv off.

Oakley, I’m going to start turning off the TV news at night. I didn’t sleep from watching news before bed as I’m so worried about my son . The Coronavirus is going crazy in Spain.

Edited: just heard from my son that the rest of the months classes will be online after today. He only had a month left.

I listen to my local tv station in the morning for updates locally. Then based on what they say, I poke around the internet for more information. I prefer the NYT. I listen to NPR in the car, but my drive times don't coordinate with when they've been covering this.

The interview with Osterholm is fascinating. I hope he's consulted in the aftermath of all this on a more public-health task-force sort of level. In case anyone wants an abbreviated Q&A with him, there's one at this link.

Just got this from an Admin of a FB group I'm in. Have not done anything to check it out yet but am passing it on here because we're talking about the Johns Hopkins site.

ALERT:

A malicious website pretending to be the live map for Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by Johns Hopkins University is circulating on the internet waiting for unwitting internet users to visit the website (corona-virus-map[dot]com).

Visiting the website infects the user with the AZORult trojan, an information stealing program which can exfiltrate a variety of sensitive data. It is likely being spread via infected email attachments, malicious online advertisements, and social engineering.

Furthermore, anyone searching the internet for a Coronavirus map could unwittingly navigate to this malicious website.

Pay attention to your web security.

WHO has a map. I trust them more than the CDC.

Last night, my son said, "Hey, Mom, Tom Hanks has the coronavirus." I chastised him--"Oh, where'd you hear that? Your snapchat friends?" I think lectured him about the misinformation going around, and that he should just focus on eating healthy and keeping his immune system strong.

Woke up this morning to find that Tom Hanks does, indeed, have the coronavirus. Texted my son an apology.

As a scientist, this question baffles me, and by that I don't mean I'm dissing the question, but there are basic tools that have been available for centuries to verify the validity and reliability of scientific information. (Edited to add: Baffles me that we have been teaching it and yet it is still so widely unknown, not baffles me as a question, the question is extremely valid and important, in fact it is one of the FIRST things I end up going over in science class, how to find and evaluate good information). We teach it at the college level and at least when I was in school, some basics in K-12. Who is the person, what are their qualifications, who do they work for and what are the professional standards there? Where are they getting their information? Learn to read a URL, learn to identify real vs fake Web sites and social media posts. Edited to add, how to make decisions based on imperfect information is also a question that those of us relying on science to inform management strategies also have to grapple with. How to evaluate statistical information . . . I had to take a whole class in that one!

It's so sad, sad, sad and ironic that we have some of the most well trained and brilliant leaders in the health, social services, foreign service, military, etc., that we brag up on over and over again, and then we wonder if they are reliable? They not only know how to fight an infectious disease, that's their JOB! I trust doctors from the CDC, the NIH, the state public health officials, doctors from university research centers on infectious disease, leaders in the military and other state agencies that have trained for years on responding to public health crises.

Just for example, last year I was provided with a two day free training by the Department of Agriculture as part of a network of experts mobilized around the country to identify and manage emerging threats from diseases, pests and viruses in the plant kingdom. These threats cost us millions and even billions depending on severity, in our economy every year. It's well worth the investment to have folks knowledgeable and trained to deal with these emerging threats. The techniques of managing a plant virus are very similar to managing it in humans, since humans spread plant viruses the same way they spread their own viruses, when you look at the big picture. So just imagine how much more training and information there is out there on managing human health concerns!! And the solutions are very similar too. Identify threats before they arrive, develop management strategies and have them in place, and then coordinate efforts to execute. Make information based decisions on what efforts will be most effective.

It's starts with prevention, goes on to containment, which involves identifying where the outbreaks are occurring (that's what I got trained in) which includes being able to properly diagnose if you have a problem or not. This is critical. Labs for testing. Then developing management strategies that will give you the most protection first. Start with the low hanging fruit and work your way up. Know as much as you can about the disease so you don't waste your efforts and money, hit what works the hardest and fastest possible.

All of this is costly. We have a hard time allocating funds to the fight in the plant realm, even when farmer's livelihoods are at stake and species can go extinct due to the threats. Imagine how much more is at stake when we are talking human life. This will be a real test of our moral will, how much will we be willing to take a financial hit to protect our fellow citizens!! How much can we come together, pool resources and make it through this!

It is reassuring to know, that Michael Osterholm, such a knowledgeable man he is, stated in the Joe Rogan video, he has been working with our current Administration on this virus. There are brilliant people working on this behind the scenes.

Unfortunately, every virus that comes around every few years, no one has been prepared in the past either. Osterholm says that needs to change, and I certainly agree!

I‘ve been looking at the map from Johns Hopkins, it seems to update regularly. But do I trust THEIR sources? Not when Russia is reporting 28 cases.

I find it hard to believe that no one has been prepared because I have seen the preparation plans and been to the preparation trainings. The issue is not do we have the plans or the training or the knowledge, the issue is DO WE HAVE THE SKILL SET AND WILL to do what is necessary to implement it. I used to run a children's camp for a living. Parents trusted us to send their kids home in the same condition as they dropped them off, and hopefully even better! We trained our staff on what to do in case of various emergencies. We trained our staff on working together as a team. Prior to the start of the summer camp season, we worked hard to put together the best qualified staff possible, from both a skill and personality perspective. The real test was when an actual emergency occurred. It's just a sad fact that good judgement ends up being kind of a bell shaped curve. Some have excellent, some good, fair, poor, etc. Often it was pretty clear who was going to be good just from watching them work on a regular basis, there were some surprises, usually in the plus category, but rarely did someone I had serious reservations about rise to the occasion although it did happen. We tried to get as many of the good types of folks as possible and as few of the obvious risks. Almost every time I put someone I wasn't sure about in a position of leadership, I regretted it. Most of the time I didn't have an option of a better person being available. In those cases, having good people supporting the marginal ones was critical, good people who could step in and run crisis management. I worked my butt off trying to be one of those folks. It's really, really difficult! God bless the ones in our country who are doing it and doing it well.

Yes I hope Jo realizes that I was not dissing the question or even suggesting it was wrong to ask it. I was just pointing out that it isn't a novel question, nor do we need novel strategies to discern truth. I was pointing out that such strategies exist, and have for a long while. That was just a point of discussion, not a political perspective nor comment on the appropriateness of Jo's post. In fact, I think it was wonderful and most timely and worthy of discussion. I was happy to provide whatever I could add based on my having to teach students how to find and evaluate scientific information since I started working in information dissemination in academia in 1999, and then prior as a student myself.

Pinkmountain, I understand your premise, but there are what I perceive as a few false analogies in using your examples for comparison to this. First, this pandemic is not by definition an emergency in and of itself. Our lack of planning and preparedness have created states of emergency.

Second, in organized emergency training, it is assumed that those impacted will comply with instructions. I suspect if a tornado threatened your summer camp, for example, the kids would listen to your staff's instructions on how to remain safe.

In this virus outbreak, even the best preparations meet up against public health. The Osterholm interview references chronic illness in this country, some of which is due to lifestyle choices. I'm the first to claim that our American society practically sets us up for obesity and chronic disease. However, yesterday I was in a store behind a middle-aged couple who were not just obese, but also reeked of cigarette smoke. As you know, coronavirus is a respiratory virus. We could have appropriate measures in place, but all the compliance in the world cannot, in many cases, compete against our current challenges in public health.

Having worked in flood disaster preparedness, it is not lack of planning, it is lack of implementing known ideas and plans that results in the greatest problems. As you said, the information on how to "shelter in place"during a disaster, for example, is out there, Red Cross officials train people and know how to do it, although sheltering in place is usually for short term disasters. And yet few citizens follow the best practice advice even for those acute situations. And they can't be forced to either. With a flood though, your lack of planning may only affect you. But also like in the case of a flood, even the best laid plans can be inadequate. But they are better than nothing. That also begs another question, who to trust in advising you on how to plan for an emergency? In addition to the sources I listed previously, I would add the Red Cross. They have decades of experience. It's not panicking to have an emergency kit at home, it is just good practice. We have one already, from years of knowing about this. It's not perfect for a virus outbreak, but it is a start.https://www.redcross.org/get-help/how-to-prepare-for-emergencies/survival-kit-supplies.html

There is no unbiased news to "listen" to on TV. You'll get less bias in the nightly ABC, CBS, NBC newscast but you'll only get a 3 minute segment, hardly enough to foster understanding. So you need to read, read, read, and not just U.S. news, if you want a true education. Besides watching TV news, what do you read, olliesmom?

I've tried to search out data from medical journals, respected research institutions, western European governments/EU and my company's own crisis and risk management information sources. If you noticed, large private companies have been taking action well before the public, based on the information and analysis they've been seeing.

bbstx, thank you so much for sharing the link to the Osterholm interview. I have shared that with several people. Knowledge is power.

I listened last night and then saw the official clarifications after the speech. No news was biased.

For many older people, their local tv news station is their chief source of information. Last night the information given by the administration on tv was, at times, incorrect. Yes, information is power but mis-information like telling a vulnerable group that insurance companies will waive all corona virus co-pays, is just plain dangerous.

This question came out of my frustration with faulty information at the highest level.

So let me rephrase the question: Where would you tell someone elderly to go for accurate information about Covid-19?

The root question is, what information is truly accurate at this point?

At first the experts thought the incubation period was max 14 days. Now it appears it could be longer.

At first they thought people were only contagious once ill. Now it is becoming clear that people are contagious prior to having symptoms, and some contagious folks may never become ill - as has been possible with other contagious diseases.

Also it was assumed that once one recovered, one would no longer be contagious. Now there seems to be some evidence that that might not be true either.

"Masks don't work" which of course is why hospital personnel wear them in the presence of flu, TB, meningitis, chicken pox.....

And every MD knows about false negatives in tests, yet...

And so on. The reality is, because this is a new virus, that behaves differently than other corona viruses in important ways, the experts don't yet have all the facts pinned down.

Just like when other new pathogens emerged in the past decades.

And just as is usually true in the "practice" of medicine - much to the dismay of laypeople - there is always a degree of educated guessing going on, because humans are each uniquely made.

I am mostly distressed by statements from some medical professionals (including infectious disease specialists who are not epidemiologists) that are circulating in the social media stating their opinion that COVID-19 risk is not that great and authorities are overreacting. People will latch onto that and think that they don't really have to observe quarantine. Others will decide that quarantines won't/don't work (have already heard that theme in the news also, including today on NPR).

In conclusion, jojoco, I would say they should listen to the people with the strongest words of caution. Better that they turn out to be wrong, than the minimizers.

I don't know if PA has something like this, but this was the document I used to have a little chat with my Dad tonight. He of course knows better than all the experts at the MI Dept. of Health, which btw is excellent since our state has three top notch medical schools/research facilities all in close proximity to the major urban areas . . . The CDC's web site is excellent, very well sourced, as I imagine most of the state sites would be. Our cooperative extension is working closely with the local health departments and our county just put out some excellent resources, there's a lot of collaboration in our state with information sharing.

Community Mitigation Strategies
https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98178_98155-521467--,00.html?fbclid=IwAR2jwWGXpH4Acng8HWI1loRKGlyqPKu7ED_9zJRp4_cMLOKh0AdP_IAZzl0

Here's a CDC Web site we are using at home to guide our cleaning and stocking of supplies
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/home/cleaning-disinfection.html?fbclid=IwAR3uKx-GGqzFeezgK-aQfUkWcfajeJ09zFWWqHqgzZiuhs1SCBdEMDecaJ4

Here's a cute poster format, from our local people
http://www.bhsj.org/uploads/resource/attachment/749/Coronavirus_Preparedness.pdf

I sure do trust these folks. They have devoted their entire lives to protecting people's health, including education, training and hands-on experience.

That great interview with Osterholm that is referenced here is good, but long and for serious disease weenies. Our research universities are putting out good stuff. But as for TV, I have been impressed with experts interviewed on CNN and MSNBC. The reporters on those channels vary, some are excellent, some are awful, but the experts being interviewed have been stellar so far. But I don't know if I would subject a senior to the 24 hour news programs. I know when to tune out the bs but someone else might get very agitated watching the 24 hour crisis tone. This is true for every news story, it is the new style of reporting these days, a few stories beat to death. But like I said, when the experts are being interviewed, I have so far been very impressed with their information.

PBS is good if you want news in smaller doses. But the best information for the average senior, IMHO, is coming out of the local health departments. Sadly not on the major TV stations in a very user friendly format, and most seniors I know don't find the Internet all that user friendly either. So it's tough. My dad listens to PBS every night though.

Those numbers (of cases) are most likely way off since we just are not testing people. The true number is probably much higher.

ETA: I personally know someone whose doctor said he could not test him. He was in contact with some CPAC people who came into his business. He is self-quarantining himself. He has a daughter in middle school, so I don't know if she is home as well or not.

Just to clarify my previous post, my issue is not with the scientists, doctors and specialists who work in these areas. It is when other interests intervene where we develop problems. That is true of any situation. That is why I was somewhat astonished when I heard the official declarations from the German former physicist and current leader, who laid things out perhaps a little too clearly for the general public.

“So let me rephrase the question: Where would you tell someone elderly to go for accurate information about Covid-19”

Dr. Anthony Fauci

That is why I was somewhat astonished when I heard the official declarations from the German former physicist and current leader, who laid things out perhaps a little too clearly for the general public.

???

The Johns Hopkins map is no longer showing any cases in Florida. (I’ve checked numerous times). It has lost my trust.

I am thankful we have a very informed family physician. He has been sending out letters through our concierge medicine link about once a week, sometimes more often, that explain things. Just got and read one today about what to do (and what not to do) if you get sick with certain symptoms. The letter also covered some additional topics related to Covid-19 I found enlightening such as how testing is determined and performed, wait times, etc.

I think the JH website is having technical difficulties - probably overloaded. I noticed the data isn’t currently accurate.

The JH website is updated now. The US total is now accurate, MN has been updated and the FL cases are back. I don't think it's being updated with recovered cases in the US. Maybe that has something to do with our testing limitations or ??? Do people have to be tested to confirm they have recovered? Or maybe we just aren't reporting it because we're still scrambling? How long does recovery usually take if you're not critically ill and hospitalized?

Here’s a link to one of the shorter interviews with Mike
Osterholm.

https://youtu.be/V1xBiBVH7U4

I also trust a family friend who is an MD and specialize in infectious diseases.

I read different news sources with different political leaning including some from francophone countries. That's not about "trust" but rather awareness of what people are being told.

My basic orientation is toward math and science, but I'm cautious. Some goverments censor data. In places with limited medical resources and/or populations that are already challenged, cause of death may not be identified accurately or at all. Case maps are probably not entirely accurate, but they're good enough for trend analysis.

What information do you need non stop? Read your precautions. Read the health advise if you feel you have it. Move on. Obsessing over every latest case is not how you should live your life!!!