Not yet ablanska. Some of this finish work is more time consuming than we thought! Hopefully in the next month...

Are there any new New Shoreham Oak installation pics? I am nervous to purchase so much flooring and would love some visual reassurance! @Kim Garlington any chance you have installed? Thanks!

Please stay away, of this floor and the company. We bought New Shoreham Oak and started installing it. I have been putting the discolored and damaged pieces on the side to use in closets, etc... Soon after I realized that the amount of good pieces is not enough to complete the project (with 20% extra). I returned the unopened boxes but I was left with 11 opened ones that the company refuses to warrant and 7 already installed. The company does not stand behind its product claiming I should have inspected the product (50 boxes) before started installing it. They refuse to warranty the product despite advertising a 100-year warranty. The planks were different widths causing gaps between them, badly stained, damaged, holes going throughout, not 90 angle cuts. It's simply false advertising (compared to the sample I saw at the store). See the attached pictures (I only attached a few):

That's BRUTAL! Sigh...Lumber Liquidators...it's in the name.

I'm sorry this has happened. The 'dish outs' and the BURN marks are 100% refundable (milling issues = warranty issues). The colour streaks (the purple) is not. Sorry but that's wood.

The milling issues *might be refundable *IF you had not installed them. The uninstalled 'milling issues' are 100% refundable...you just have to PUSH for it.

The Industry Standard for 'miss milled' (not burned...not dish outs/voids) is 5%. If you can PROVE the burns and the dish outs are MORE than 5% of the boxes you purchased (5% of 50 boxes = 2.5 boxes).

You are welcome to contact an NWFA Certified Inspector to inspect what you have...it will cost about $500 for the inspection which comes with a DETAILED report (is considered 'court ready'). You can then use that report to bully LL into giving you back the money on the wood.

And just for fun...go ahead and google "Lumber Liquidator lawsuits". You will find DOZENS of them...and at least 5 of them are 'class actions'. See if you can be added to one of them (assuming they are in the category of your flooring purchase).

Good luck.

Stacy Martin I have not yet. I keep saying soon-we are currently finishing painting the trim/cabinet faces but will be right after that. The boxes have been sitting in the house for months now. The previous post makes me really nervous. 😩😩😩 I feel like I looked for ever for flooring I liked. I would hate to have to choose something else last minute but don’t want to put in a shoddy product 😩

Bellawood, Natural Maple, going on 5 years. I love my floors.

@Andy4848 what did you end up using instead? Did you find that there were pieces that had a pinkish hue? If they won’t return opened boxes how is one supposed to see if they are happy with it or not?!? 😩🙈

I bought Bellawood 5” solid white oak and after 10 days for acclamation, I have just started to lay it. As my layout required, I started in the center of the house against a cleat that I screwed through the subfloor and into the joists. I did not even finish my first row and already had to set 4 boards aside due to damage (splitting, scratches, dents and smashed edges). This is to be expected. But what I really had feared, I immediately see now. The milling is off. No amount of cheating will make this acceptable. I have been a carpenter in residential remodeling for over 20 years now and have installed miles of hardwood. I knew better than to buy Bellawood. But the price sucked me in. I plan on returning the 900 square feet immediately and spending the money to buy a product that will not only go in easier, but not look hacked after it’s down.

You need a master installer to install flooring with bad millwork. Takes more time the conventional install. But, it can be done.

Master or not, the fact is is, the flooring that I paid thousands of dollars for, is a bad product. A “master“ floor installer is going to take the time to weed through the 900 square feet of this garbage and separate the pieces into coherent piles. Then he’ll try and lay them in similar rows. Thats great. That in it self is a great reason not to buy this. The “Master” floor installer would no doubt hear Bellawood and know they have to charge much more for the install to compensate the much needed extra time. So any money saved by purchasing this cheaper product through Lumber Liquidators, is now lost. Or, like me, a more than competent carpenter installs it himself and has to heartbreakingly struggle to lay this nonsense and watch his thousands of dollars have to be cheated in. Which by the way, this “Master” installer will have to cheat boards. Like I said earlier, that “master“ will separate the flooring to similarly milled width boards to be able to lay rows that are straight. But there are so many pieces that are different measurements at each end of the same piece. Which then has to be cheated to split the difference in a row. But when there is almost an 1/8“ difference, there is a big enough gap to visibly see. Which someone who is trying to protect the ”good name” of this product, will say it is within tolerance and simply needs to be puttied. If that was the only issue with cheating, it would be bad enough. But when you start to cheat boards to compensate, your rows can begin jackknife slightly. Which can compound. And when you have to floor around a stair well and meet back up again in 12’, this method can prove to be a disaster. I have installed good quality hard wood. yes, there is always some finagling to be done. But the end product looks amazing, even to the carpenter. But when you have to grind yourself through the whole process, and still end up with a finish product that looks like garbage, it’s heartbreaking. I’m a carpenter with three kids on one income. I bust my butt for my money, and it really hurts to see it get burnt on something like this.

Btw, I have heard of G and S. I hear you guys do great work. Keep it up.

It is simple, instead of racking out the entire floor. You just don’t, other than your starting row. After that, installing one row at a time and keeping a close eye out for the millwork before nailing. If, there is variance in the width put it aside for later use. You are gauging every piece to your starting piece regardless of size. You are not spending hours sorting and measuring every piece with a caliper. That’s the long route.

that’s why you need a master installer.

as I stated previously, a lot of this Bellawood flooring purchased at Lumber Liquidators is milled incorrectly. For instance, this piece is 5 1/16” on one end, and 4 31/32” on the other. Using pieces like this will throw your run off and this will compound. Odd width boards that are consistent the whole way through are still mismilled, but like you stated, can be layed with like boards in the same row( which I stated earlier). My point is, this product is garbage. Anyone who is honest and has dealt with this will say the same. 1- The money saved on the purchase of the product will be eaten up by the heightened install price that compensates the struggle of installing low quality product. 2-the hassle of returning unusable product and having the job on hold until the new product arrives. Which will have similar issues. Not to mention, as I stated earlier, the scratched , dented, split ends and incorrect T and G milling. I say all this to plead with folks not to be seduced by the cheaper price of this Bellawood product. Save money longer and purchase a higher quality product. The finish product will reflect your choice.

Can a better product be suggested? this flooring I purchased from Lumber Liquidators is Bellawood 5” prefinished natural white oak. Willing to pay more for a better product.

I don’t disagree that the product is subpar. For other readers, if, you can avoid it, stay away from LL. Purchase the best quality product that fits your budget. But if, you must, you Will want to gauge each piece prior to nailing For a successful install.

@Tom, keep the advice I gave in your tool box and make some money.

@Kim Garlington Some of them had a pinkish hue. For me, the worst part was the bad milling - just what @tom5872 described - one end of the plank was a different width than the other one. I ended up ordering an engineered floor. There is less chance it will come like that and it is more stable (temperature and humidity wise), which is also important in NYC. Summers can be extremely humid and winter super dry. We also wanted to go with 5" planks. The floor we went with is Mirage Isla. It will be delivered sometime next week. Once I have it installed I will share pictures. Fingers crossed it will be better than Bellawood.

G&S Floor Service can you recommend a good brand in the $7 or $8 price range???

@ Kelly - the price you show is very easy to get into sand-in-place (raw) hardwood in a narrow plank (3") in a low(er) grade wood such as #2 Grade or Character grade. You can find this type of wood anywhere you find a "Ma and Pa" hardwood store. You can find beautiful products in this price range when looking at solid hardwood that requires sand/refinish after install.

Remember: Sand and refinish is the GOLD standard of hardwood floors. It will be the same cost (after install) as a low grade factory finished hardwood with all the waste product.

You can find $5/sf red oak in 3" wide in a mid-grade. The cost of install + sand/refinish will add another $5-$7/sf. That adds up to be $10-$12/sf.

Compare that to a 3" wide factory finished hardwood for $7/sf (good quality) with an installation cost of $3-$4/sf installation costs. That's $10-$11/sf after install. It all works out in the wash.

What type of product were you HOPING to find for $5-$7/sf? How many square feet to do you have? What is your FINAL budget once all the bills are paid???

@Kelly Feldman, I cannot recommend a specific pre-finish brand. I install unfinished flooring and finish on-site 95% of the time. For pre-finished projects, my clients will have the flooring already purchased and ready. I just deal with the quality level, whether it is good or not.

Based on my experience, I can say stay away from Armstrong, LL, Mirage, Br-111, and Tarkett flooring. Flooring brand that I consider acceptable, Appalachain, Preverco, Lauzon and Mercier. Once again, I do not install enough pre-finished flooring to recommend a good solid quality brand. Even the engineered flooring that I install are unfinished.

My husband and I are about halfway through installing the LL Bellawood New Shoreham Oak. I wanted to give an update. But please be kind. #1 We have done nearly all the work in our home ourselves. #2 we are not professional flooring installers. This is our first time installing hardwood, so we probably don’t know any different. I know this will make some of you cringe. But, for those of you who wanted to see what a decent area of floor looked like. We did find a decent amount damaged, but I honestly think I way overbought so we have been able to be pretty picky. We have measured and carefully inspected each board. We realize it’s “distressed” wood flooring, and I am ok with some character, just not straight up damage. Like the previous poster who tried to install we found burn marks, rough edges, and uneven measurements on several boards. But overall I do think it’s beautiful and it was exactly what I was looking for, and am happy with the way it’s gone down. Just wanted to share our experience!

Looks great! I’m glad you love it. Nice work

@kim garlington it looks so good so far. I am installing my floor in about 2 weeks. I bought about 300 extra sqft just Incase. I have a question what is the height of your windows above the sink?

I have often found that homeowners make some of the best installers because they KNOW they don't know. So they READ.

Congratulations on all your hard work. You are doing a great job. For the issues you have found with the flooring you have purchased, your patience with the product would NOT have been matched by a professional. Not unless they were paid VERY HANDSOMELY.

I'm so glad you took an abundance of caution and over purchased. Keep the culled stuff. If it turns out to be MORE than what LL says you need (some say 10% waste...others require 15% waste...check your product's recommended waste allotment) then you can get a refund on the damaged planks ABOVE the required amount amount.

Example: You purchased 1000sf (just to keep numbers nice and round). The documents say 15% waste. Of that 1000sf, you can be ASSURED there will be 150sf of 'nasty'. Now you go ahead and cull what is nasty and install the rest (so far so goo). You look at your culled pile to find it contains 250sf of 'bad' boards. That means you have 25% milling issues. That's 10% more than advertised. Go ahead and take all 250sf back to LL and ask for a refund. They will play hardball. You know you want the 10% refunded. That's the bare minimum you will accept.

And the 'extra' you are keeping to make repairs in the future are NOT the 'culled' items. The extras will be the 'good stuff'. So don't let them con you into keeping all that waste to be used 'just in case'. Tell them you already have your extras set aside.

Thank you for the tips SJ! And your kind words. Was hesitant to post but glad I did 😀 Happy Thanksgiving!!

Sorry @jcasseus! It’s about 6 in from top of countertop to bottom of windowsill. (I also can’t figure out for the life of me to tag or reply directly to someone so I hope you see this!)

Hello, we have our Hannah Point installed. I am a bit disappointed though - there are a lot of black spots and not sure how much of these are “special effect” or damaged wood. Sadly, our project superintendent didn’t notify us of any problems when the floor was installed and i wish I was there to tell the floor guy to be attentive to the darker planks. Attaching some pics. I wonder what LL has to say about it.

OK...lets look at the description from LL website:

3/4 in. x 5.25 in. Hannah Point Distressed Solid Hardwood Flooring (llflooring.com)

Direct from the Horses Mouth: "Artisan Hannah Point Distressed Hardwood is a stunning floor only matched by the rustic natural beauty of Hannah Point on Livingston Island in Antarctica. Wide planks, rustic natural character, and subtly chased textures highlight the magnificent beauty of the wood, creating an amazing organic canvas for your personal style."

There it is...in black and white. The 'Antarctica' is the BIG clue. Drift wood in the ant/arctic has a STRONG gray hue to it. The gray in natural drift wood (like your first picture) occurs naturally. It happens when dissolved minerals (like iron) leach into the wood with water intrusion (ie. floating in the ocean then ending up on a muddy beach).

Your yellow birch (which is the species) has been SPECIFICALLY stressed/distressed to MIMIC this property. These are not defects. They are part and parcel to the 'rustic drift wood' look you have chosen.

You have paid $6-$7 USD/sf = high-end for LL. You've saved (roughly) 1/2 the price of a solid hardwood from a reputable company. I doubt LL is going to do anything other than 'Sorry. That's the look of our product. It was up to you (the homeowner) to go through every plank so that you could control what you have on your floor."

Personally I think your installed did a very nice job with a character grade yellow birch from a low quality company like LL. I wouldn't mess with this install. The cure will be worse than the disease.

Thank you so much for your detailed response! The rustic look did appeal to us but we missed the meaning of the Antarctica look. I certainly did not expect the big black spots - they were not on any of the boards on the display panel for sure. Also looking at it (the black spot issue) now as part of the wood vs a defect does make me feel better in a way...if it makes sense. I appreciate your time. Learning from this experience and appreciating the silver lining of it all too- my kids scratches and messes will be easy to hide.;)

And much of the floor will be hidden with furniture. I would be surprised if you even notice the black aging 6 months from now! Good luck.It looks like you have chosen a nice looking product.

I wish I saw andy4848's post before purchasing New Shoreham Oak from LL Flooring and installing it. Installing those floor boards took my patience to limits. I was expecting some to be bad, but not so many. The most frustrating part was the ridiculously high percentage of planks with different widths, especially at the ends. I had to spend way too much time measuring, replacing and adjusting, and I still ended with some gaps. I am not a professional installer, just another DIY guy, but I hope there are better hardwood floors out there. I understand that hardwood is a natural product and can have imperfections, but I feel like the quality control for this product is minimal.

"I understand that hardwood is a natural product and can have imperfections, but I feel like the quality control for this product is minimal.

It is right there in the name of the seller "Liquidators", 98% of what they sell is crap. Period.

I'm sorry this has happened Emil. The 'warning' about LL is in the name, 'lumber LIQUIDATORS'. Yes. Liquidator indicates 'seconds', like 'mill seconds' are WORSE than 'retail seconds' (which would be mismatched dye lots, etc).

There are SOOOO many people who fall for the 'great price' only to find out the amount of WASTE (yes...LL recommends 10% - 15% waste whereas the National Standard = 5%) you need increases your costs by, well 10%-15%.

Please let everyone you know about your LL experience. Maybe if we reach 'critical mass' LL will implode...So far this has been going on for a couple of decades and STILL this issue continues.

So true. The price is seducing. But in the end you’re left with an inferior product and a lot of headache. Some people may not notice and be very happy with the finish product, but to those who know what to look for and any customer with an average or above eye for detail, the product sold at LL is a let down. Tell your friends and family what they are getting into before they purchase. Some cannot afford a higher price, but if time affords, a bit of patience to save up for a higher quality product will serve the consumer well.

J. Clark
I live in the Houston area and wondered how your new floor was installed. I would love to have hardwood, but am hesitant about installation and endurance. Please post an update. TIA

Went down super slow. Like G and S said, you’ll need to work one row at a time while checking milling congruency. Hard wood is wood, it’s going to scratch and it’s going to get dented. The longevity of the floor will largely depend on your lifestyle and habits. The average person that walks into my home loves the floor. To a carpenter, it’s subpar. There is only so much one can do with sub par products. Buying flooring from LL needs to be carefully considered. Don’t let the cheap price seduce you into a hastened purchase. Take your time. Look at forums like these. Look for the good and the bad reviews. I’m my instance, as aggregating as the install process was and the defects here and there, I got what I paid for and I’m ok with that in the end. Most importantly my wife is happy. FYI, I bought the stair treads from LL so they’d match the floor. The floors are Bellawood character white oak. Beware, the treads in this product only come in semi gloss. Which is crazy slippery. Just make sure to ask if ordering treads what the sheen is. I have three kids and I had to reteach them how to walk on stairs because the are super slippery.

ablanska, I noticed in your three photos that the "average" color of the boards looks a lot different in each photo. The first photo looks like what we had seen at LL. The second pic looks like it has a lot more variability between light and dark with a more reddish hue. The last pic looks more whitewashed. Do you think that the general color is similar to what you saw at the store before purchase (notwithstanding the blackened areas) and similar to the first pic? We might just buy one box before taking the plunge.

You really might have the right idea with buying one box. Especially with the character grade, there is a drastic swing between the colors. While there is a difference, there is probably 3 colors that stay consistent, if that makes sense. With the white oak, it’ll definitely have more of an amber-ish color in general. Different times of day highlight the different hues. If you are looking for a more monotone look, I suggest looking at a “select” line. We wanted the more intense grain and color so we went with the character. If you’d like I can post some other pics. Also, check with LL on their return policy for the one box. Get it in writing.

I was able to get 7.5” wide 3/4 engineered white oak for an amazing price last year. Prices may be slightly more now - as everything, but this company has superior products for great value. https://www.heidelbergflooring.com.

G & S Floor Service

Could you then recommend a quality unfinished engineered floor that is diy install like click?

I only use Schafer’s V3 ply unfinished engineered flooring, nothing else. it can be nailed, glued or floated.

Thank you. Does floating mean I can install w/o glue and then have it finished in my home?

Float by edge gluing not click lock.

@Kim Garlington How do you like your New Shoreham 1 year later? We are deciding between this and Cumaru. Do you have any gapping issues or denting/scratching? We noticed our New Shoreham sample has splinters and rough edges, is that just because it's a sample or is it the wood itself? Thanks!

@Kim Garlington I've love to get an update on how you like your New Shoreham floors one year later!

Same. Post picture and comments about it after using it. I’m shopping for flooring now.

If I can convince anyone to stay away from LL Flooring then I will have saved you a lot of time, money and headache. this is the New Shoreham Oak Bellawood Artisinal line. I read this thread and did a lot of research. We ordered 30-40% waste to make up for it, however we are about 5 boxes in and our installer (who does hardwoods and has for 20+ years) called us to say he couldn't keep installing. the worst quality of wood hes ever seen. so many boards are damaged out of the box. The finish is inconsistent. A board would look okay, he would go and install and then find splits later. He soon realized many of these boards are split but it is hidden by the finish on top until he installs it. We are taking all 4000 sq ft back and returning it. What we will go with instead yet we do not know. We knew we were going with a lower wuality product but this is next level. STAYYYY AWAY. I will update after we talk to the regional manager.

It's called Liquidators for a reason. Pure pot luck. Caveat Emptor.

During the pandemic my husband and his sister & brother in law installed LL red cumaru flooring in our downstairs kitchen, living room, dining room, one bedroom, 2 closets, entryway and hallway. The in laws had previously professionally installed the same flooring in their home, and had purchased installing equipment and helped other family install the same flooring. We really had very little waste, far less than the 10% recommended. We took the time to take wood from at least three boxes and lay them out for the best color arrangement. We love the flooring (we did a nail in install). I am very sensitive to chemicals, so the glue down install was not an option for us. We don't have the skill to do the stairs, so have put off that install until we find someone who can install it for us. Our top step up is almost two inches taller then the rest of the other twelve stairs so not sure how to adjust for this. If anyone has any ideas/suggestions for the stairs please comment/reply. We have flooring left over to do the other downstairs bedroom which I am currently using as a closet/sauna.