Thank you. We have been debating it but since we spend a lot of time cooking we want to have the chance to cook while also speaking to our friends. You are right, I am a bit concerned about the mess.

How will you reach cabinets at that height?

Why would you buy something like this only to remove it’s character?

We are keeping the character and most of the details - in fact we are restoring what we can but wanted a kitchen with a space to socialize.

Might be wise to follow your architects advice here. Seems a bit overpowering to have them that high.

Maybe it would go, if you kept it white and plain. But there aren't many people into that style.

What other options are available to you to have enough storage space? Do you have some cellar space to go with your apartment (doubt it...)? Or does your sister own a huge house with a half empty attic? Is it time to start organizing, which involves a lot of selling/donating? Or even time to start minimalizing, which involves a whole lot more selling/donating?

Thank you. We actually have a country house but you are right, it is time to keep things to a minimum - which we currently already trying to do.

The advantage to going to the ceiling is no dust on top. The disadvantages are cost and it can be a heavy look. Because of cost we did not go to out 9’ ceilings but did 42” uppers

i am thinking the heaviness issue may not be as big a deal for you. I imagine your apartment already has a bit of ”heaviness” given its era (heaviness isn’t necessarily bad). So if you can afford it and can match your cabinetry to the historic style of the building, allthe way to the ceiling could work in my opinion. You may want a more traditional style. Just my opinion. Photos could help also.

Thanks! I will post some photos as soon as I can.

Take ‘em to the rafters. You can combat a heavy look with stacked uppers and some glass fronts. The kitchen below (in the east village) resembles nothing so much as a fallen kneesock. They should have gone all the way up. They did stack their uppers nicely but their crown is a little underwhelming. To reach the contents of your vaulted cabinets, consider a toe kick step stool like the one below from Haefle.

There is character then there is practicality we no longer live in prewar lifestyle and IMO you do a home for how you live . I would need to see the space before commenting on height of cabinets but IMO small spaces need all the storage you can get . Often if cabinets go to the ceiling they can sometime make a space feel top heavy . You can change that feeling sometimes with glass cabinets on top with lighting inside. I would use them for under used items and there are lots of ways to access like the ideas above. I actually even install cabinets a bit higher from the counter I like 22 “ much better than the standard 18” . I have a Bosch DW with a quick wash cycle and I use that almost all the time when entertaining it only takes 23 mins. to do a load so easy to keep the mess to a min.even in between courses. We had a 1905 house in Calgary and we put back some character with crown molding and wider baseboards that had all been removed in the 70s but my kitchen pure contemporary I never regretted redoing an absolutely useless kichen design to suit my life . BTW your architect in most cases is not a kitchen designer so get a KD

It's admirable that your architect is considering the proportion of the space. So many insist on taking cabinets to the ceiling with little regard for it, but proportion is one of the five important principles of interior design. If you are most concerned with function and maximizing storage, however inaccessible it may be, then you might consider taking the cabinets to the ceiling. But if you are equally as concerned with the form of the space, listen to your architect.

Many thanks Kristin, Patricia and eam44! Very good points. And yes, we are hiring a kitchen designer but when we redid our kitchen in the country house, I got such invaluable advice on Houzz. So I am doing my own research here. I will post some photos this evening.

This is from a longer article on kitchens. You might find it helpful.

Not a pro. Why do your architects not want to take the cabinets to the ceiling?

I had a craftsman bungalow with ten foot ceilings- we ran the cabinets to the ceiling. Provided a tremendous amount of storage. Plenty of period kitchens had a double stack of cabinets...

I wouldn't want to remove the original crown molding and replace that with cabinets. I can hire it to be dusted. The original details are too cool in old buildings to just rip them out of there!

I haven’t been on this site for a while but my finished kitchen pics are here somewhere. I did what you are talking about. Took down a wall and went to ceiling, with crown, with nine plus foot ceilings. Google my name and nyc kitchen walnut calacatta I think, and you should find my pictures.

Nyc I remember your space! Unfortunately images that were on photobucket are just too hard to access...

Eam, I just googled my name and the pictures came right up.

Yes, on google images, but try clicking on one. Or better yet, post some here. That’d be great.

This is our current kitchen - the apartment we are renovating has the same configuration. As mentioned, we are planning to take down the doors and a part of that wall and the wall to the long hallway.

I would go to the ceiling. These cabinets look short and sad☹

That’s really going to be nice! All of this tish tosh about pre war molding. You can choose whatever molding pattern you want. Nothing worth keeping here. I still say go all the way up!

I would absolutely take the cabinets to the ceiling. Does your kitchen designer work exclusively in Manhattan? I'm surprised they don't want to take the cabinets all the way to the ceiling, it is just so common there and I think there are a lot of ways it can be done well. Think of all the built-ins throughout most NYC new and old and how they go to the ceiling.

We will be moving to NYC within a few years so I've been looking at Zillow. I was just thinking today about a particular kitchen and wondering why they didn't take the cabinets all the way to the ceiling. I would never forsake that storage space. I hate to be this blunt, but if you are hacking apart the proportions of a pre-war apartment by opening doorways and removing a hallway wall, I think the height of your cabinets and demolition of a bit of molding are really quite minor.

I personally would stretch my imagination to figure out how to make a kitchen that is inclusive of space for friends without knocking down the walls. Your kitchen in the photo is actually quite large for a NYC kitchen and I think the space could be better used.

Questions - does your new place have wood paneling in the adjacent room and hallways too?

How long have you had your country house and do you go up every weekend? Do you not do a lot of cooking with your friends on the weekends in the country? Do you need your city place to have this ability too?

In your current location, where are friends standing, sitting, drinking when you are cooking?

Thank you all. Actually, here are the photos of the old/prewar kitchen and the cabinets go all the way to the ceiling.

A few examples of to the ceiling cabinets in NY apartments.

Bergen Street town house · More Info

UWS Prewar Kitchen · More Info

Upper West Side Pre-War · More Info

Fifth Avenue Residence · More Info

And god forbid you decide to tear down those walls and open up the space, here is an example of a kitchen done rather well with cabinets to the ceiling and retaining some of the prewar character:

Upper East Side Apartment · More Info

Upper East Side Apartment · More Info

Thank you Kendrah. To answer your question: yes, the dining room has wood paneling (the hallway not - it is a long and narrow hallway). It is stripped in the current apartment - a beautiful golden oak - and painted white in the one we are going to renovate -we hope to strip it, too, and hope it will come out as nicely as well.

As to where our friends are while we are cooking - mostly in the dining and living room (the living room is adjacent to the dining room).

And yes, we entertain in the country house but also in the city. We were torn about taking down the wall to the dining room. It will take away the look and feel if the dining room but will give us more social space. The architects bare keeping some panels to frame it. See photo of proposed plan.

A few examples of to the ceiling cabinets in NY apartments.

UWS Prewar Kitchen · More Info

UWS Prewar Kitchen · More Info

Fifth Avenue Residence · More Info

And god forbid you decide to tear down those historic walls and open up the space, here is an example of a kitchen done rather well with cabinets to the ceiling and retaining some of the prewar character:

Upper East Side Apartment · More Info

Upper East Side Apartment · More Info

The architect’s drawings do not look more proportional to the space than full height cabinets. Your instinct was right on.

A few suggestions:

1. Have your contractor replicate the current molding in the kitchen and have it installed as trim at the very top of your nearly to the ceiling cabinets to fill in the gap between your cabinets and the ceiling. We live in an 1861 row house and have to the ceiling cabinets (and utilize every inch of them) and our contractor did this so the new kitchen reflects the trim found throughout the rest of the house.

2. I would keep all the walls intact and have a counter depth fridge on the long wall. On the short wall adjacent to the dining room, I would have part of that wall be very shallow lower cabinets with a counter that extends overtop and barstools that tuck underneath for friends to sit on and hang out while you cook. This pic reflects a similar concept though different layout:

New York Apartment · More Info

3. Will you be retaining the original window that goes all the way to floor with great wood work? If not you could create a seated area like this with storage underneath.

EAST SIDE RESIDENCE · More Info

I had a great prewar apartment in Chicago with a galley kitchen. All appliances and cabinets were on one wall. On the opposite wall I had a narrow drop-leaf table with a chair on either end. My husband and I would cook in here while friends sat at the table drinking wine. It was fun and never felt claustrophobic. I think there are too many great room ideas from suburban houses that people try to translate into old city apartments when instead we should be thinking about how the experience of living in a city looks and feels different yet can still be just as fun and friend oriented.

I don't understand the desire to entertain around dirty dishes. When we entertain, if guests are in the dining room, I leave the kitchen door open and join in on the conversation. I feel very lucky in our one bedroom NYC apartment to even have a separate dining room.

following

Thank you Kendrah for these great suggestions! The window will stay - we thought of a window seat but it will get tight.

I like the idea of replicating the molding as well the idea of using the shorter wall (where the current fridge is, correct?) for a narrow counter and stools. It is 35” deep and 77” long. That way we would not need to take down that wall. And yes, we will get a counter deep fridge and I would like it covered with a cabinet front. I am not a fan of big stainless steel surfaces to look at (we would see it from the dining and living room.

We still think that we could take down the other short wall to the hallway (or half way?) This would open up the hallway and shorten it - it is a long and narrow hallway - and it would keep the dining room intakt. We may be able to use that space for a narrow counter and stools as well. Thanks again!

I agree that the architect's rendering of the cabinet height does not look proportional and that it makes much more sense to have them go the full height to the ceiling.

Have you ever had an open kitchen before? Our contractor tried to twist our arm hard on tearing down the wall between our kitchen and dining room as most of the other home owners on our street have done. I'm so glad we resisted. On Saturday we sat down with friends in the dining room to feast on coq au vin and I was thrilled to not have to look at the mess in the kitchen as I ate, nor at the dirty dinner dishes as we sat around the table drinking wine and eating bread pudding. To each their own, but I do love the separation.

One of my favorite prewar apartments is one that has a window from the kitchen to the dining room/living room. Yes it is a bit of an 80's look, but it is so practical with tall period appropriate shutters that can be opened or closed for a more social experience or a more dirty dishes in the sink experience.

As we anticipate our move and look at prewar spaces, I nix the ones with torn down walls and new configurations. I might be in the minority though. I'm just not sure why people buy old units if they are looking for a more contemporary layout.

Thank you, Kendrah, we are torn.

Helene Hoedl, tear down that wall! (in the voice of RR of course!)

The way we use houses now is completely different than 100 years ago. It sounds like you will enjoy the space more if you take down the wall. The current kitchen has a few original cabinets but they aren't amazing. Build a new 'period style' kitchen, I would extend trim details from the dining room into the kitchen to tie the spaces together.

I recognize those original cabinets. In the apartment I grew up many of those door panels were painted glass. Since you’re keeping the window, are you keeping the potato/onion storage under the window?

You are right - the doors were painted glass. Yes, we are keeping the cool storage under the window. We will strip the metal door.

I agree that taking the cabinets to the ceiling will work best, and I think it will work well to take down the wall but leave some of the panels and the feel of a large cased opening. It's a nice compromise between a totally open and a totally closed space.

Thanks Kristin. We also thought perhaps do use some of the stripped wood panels from the dining room on the island to tie it in more.

I like a separate kitchen so that the dining room table feels special. It is my habit to have as much of the dinner prepared and ready before guests arrive. I select the menu so that this is possible.

Hello everyone, we had to postpone the renovation due to COVID but are about to relaunch it. We still have the dilemma of the height of the cabinets. I prefer the full height/up to ceiling cabinets.

However, if we do that we have to remove the wall and ceiling moldings and will lose the coves (the nice round coves) - at least along the long wall.

So perhaps we have to sacrifice the molding for this.

I have not seen any shorter upper cabinet version that would look great and intentional.

We opted not to open the wall to the dining room - just remove the doors. This still gives us quite an open look without being completely open plan. We will be taken down parts is the wall to the hallway.