Some very good points are being made here. I live on latitude 55 degrees north same as Manitoba in Canada. USDA ZONE 2 (Leo-prairieview on this forum lives there). The difference in climate is however dramatic! With the in land climate in Canada it gets very cold!!! Most places with coastal climates are much milder, but what really makes northern Europe having such a mild climate is however the Gulf Stream as Patricia pointed out. Even though Norway is much further north, half the west coast is affected by the warm Gulf Stream, given mild and rainy winters. If we have western or southwestern winds during the winter it is mild, gray and rainy here with temps around +5C (+40F). Periods with high pressures building up and blowing cold artic winds down from north gives us temps between -5 and 0C (+23F to 32F). Some high pressures over Scandinavia will give us winds from northeast, east or southeast. Then we have very cold winters with temps about -10C (14F) in the daytime and night time temps to -20C (-4F). Some winters the night time temps can be below -25C (-13F) or even -28C (-18F). As a rule of thumb we have a very cold winter with temps below -13F every 5. year. If these conditions last for weeks the ocean around us begins to freeze and the icebreakers, come out to make it possible for ships to sail. Every 20 year or so we register temps below -30C (-22F). USDA zones is about average temps. But roses do not care about average temps ... maps may tell I live in USDA zone 7. See link below. But I simply do not believe that! In the same website it says that one can find the similar USDA zone in Europe by finding the lowest temp it will Probably be in my area during the winter or: If you live outside North America You can roughly translate the USDA hardiness zones by finding out how low your area's temperatures can reach, and then use the chart below to find your corresponding zone. Zone 1: below -46 C (below -50 F) Zone 2: -46 to -40 C (-50 to -40 F) Zone 3: -40 to -34 C (-40 to -30 F) Zone 4: -34 to -29 C (-30 to -20 F) Zone 5: -29 to -23 C (-20 to -10 F) Zone 6: -23 to -18 C (-10 to 0 F) Zone 7: -18 to -12 C (0 to 10 F) Zone 8: -12 to -7 C (10 to 20 F) Zone 9: -7 to -1 C (20 to 30 F) Zone 10: -1 to 4 C (30 to 40 F) Zone 11: above 4 C (above 40 F) Nothing about average? So CAN REACH reach makes me live in USDA zone 4! since temps can reach more than -30C (-22F). The other site that said to choose a comparable USDA by choosing the lowest temps we will PROBABLY REACH. Well we usually have some nights each winter where temps probably reach -18C (-3F) like we did last winter that was the mildest/warmest winter ever, making me live in USDA zone 6. In the winter 2002-2003 we had a week with night temps below -27C (-17F). So it sure is hard to say if my zone compares to USDA zone 7 as the map suggests. Many plants that is supposed to be hardy to zone 6 simply do not survive the winthers here e.i. Russian Sage, penstemons, and Gladiolus byzantinus and some geraniums like Ann Folkard . So according to these plants I live in zone colder than 6 ... Over the years I wondered why the roses I saw in Salt Lake City (zone 5a) were at least twice as big as the same roses growing here. Sunsprite for instance was 5 feet tall and the canes thick suggesting it has survived several winters. I also noticed plants like Hibiscus Syriacus and Russian Sage did well there and grew 2 to 3 times as big as here? I also noted that the daytime length in Iowa on the shortest day of the year was 2 hours longer than here. Latitude and the amount of sunlight simply means so much for the mature sizes of roses and other plants. Iowa may be cold in the winter time but get the same amount of sunlight as Rome in southern Europe. So latitude and heat zone also affects what plants we can grow. Studies show that the temps in big city urban areas like E.i. Chicago (Zone 5) is 5-7 degrees Celsius higher than outside of the town... so again so much for hardiness, average zones. And don´t even get me started on Elevation and Heatzones and cold sink effects. I grow 3 tea roses in sheltered areas against south facing walls. Cl. Devoniensis and Cl lady Hillingdon and Louis XIV. if not grown in these exact spots they would never survive here. I do winter protect them. Many of us in colder zones probably grow some roses that is not supposed to be hardy , but are if planted in protected sheltered area with a micro climate that enables them to survive. The problem with hardiness zones is this: The average minimum temperature is not the only factor in figuring out whether a plant will survive in your garden. Soil types, rainfall, daytime temperatures, day length, wind, humidity and heat also play their roles. For example, although both Austin, Texas and Portland, Oregon are in the same zone (8), the local climates are dramatically different. Even within a city, a street, or a spot protected by a warm wall in your own garden, there may be microclimates that affect how plants grow. The zones are a good starting point, but you still need to determine for yourself what will and won't work in your garden. There are many hardy to zone 7 roses I can not grow ... so most often I say my USDA zones compares to USDA zones 5-6. And yes Ann sometimes it is possible to go skating on the canals in Holland. In Holland the have the famous Elfstedentocht, the Eleven Cities Tour. A 125 miles skate. The only problem with the Elfstedentocht is that it almost never happens. Because of thin ice or no ice at all its been staged only 15 times in the last 97 years. The most recent race was held on Jan. 4, in 1997, more than a decade ago. But Ice skate racing is on of the Dutch national sports. Read more about it here: http://www.darkacres.com/Elf_jump.html Other pictures showing Ice-skating on dutch canals are: http://www.amsterdamtourist.nl/upload/afbeeldingen/consumentensite/sfeer/schaatsen_op_de_grachtgr.gif http://cache.virtualtourist.com/1/1910474-me_skating-Netherlands.jpg http://images.ggcs.net.au/member/user_image_5607.jpg http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3320212.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=86F19F6C94FCC84FC443762D2927168DA55A1E4F32AD3138

Winners, in order: Pink Peace, Tamora (Austin), Marie Van Houtte (tea), Alnwick Rose (Austin), Gold Medal (HT) and Granada (grandiflora). Passionate Kisses was planted in June and hasn't stopped blooming. Queen of Sweden did very well until early August -- it's doing nothing now. Double Delight has been a double dud - several flowers in early spring, then almost nothing. Darcey Bussell bloomed non-stop in July despite the heat, and is gearing up for another flush. Munstead Wood is beautiful, when it blooms, but the flowers are few and far between; same with Mr. Lincoln. Chihulys (floribunda) have been blooming constantly since June-July. Trumpeter (floribunda) did very well at first, then slowed down, and now is reviving. I love those superbright, very long-lasting vermilion blooms. Don Juan is just growing along, or should I say growing up - fall flush on its way. FWIW, Sylvia

Wow! I never knew it took that long for the columbine seeds to germinate. All the ones I have, have self seeded, so Ive never actually started any in pots. The very first one (the second picture) was a small plant I brought from my last yard when I moved in here 3 years ago. So its 3 years old. Putting yours in the ground this fall, you will definitely get some flowers next year. It blooms pretty much all summer, tho its at its peak right now. This is the first year that Ive actually gotten a whiff of it one time when I was near it. Thats what Im trying to get! I have a couple more seedlings I moved to the side of the deck in the picture, and Im hoping when they grow up, Ill actually be able to smell it when I walk out on the deck. Dont know for sure if itll be enough or not, but itll be pretty even if that never happens. The time I smelled it just walking by at Denver Botanic Gardens, it was a HUGE patch of it. Oh, how I wish I had room for that. The first picture was a single little seedling that got dug up with a division of Turkish veronica I brought along with me, and I hadnt even noticed the columbine was with it, but when I discovered it, I just left it grow to see what kind it was. So that one was tiny, tiny three years ago, and you can see how big it is now. I did try to start another variety of columbine from seed this spring, but gave up when it didnt germinate after 3 or 4 weeks. Its old seed, and I decided Ill try one more time, but stratify it before I plant it next time. If youre gonna stratify the lavender seeds, yes, just take a small piece of paper towel and dampen it (not sopping wet), then put the seeds on it and fold it in half, seal it in a zipper baggie, and stick it in the fridge for about 3 weeksgeneral wisdom seems to say 2 to 4 weeks. Then plant it like anything else. The golden sage is Salvia officinalis Aurea, and it IS the culinary sagejust a different color than the standard gray/green/purplish stuff. I have a Tricolor too. Dont have a picture of mine, but heres what that one looks like. http://www.mountainvalleygrowers.com/salofftricolor.htm Theyre all only marginally hardy. I had always wanted those two, and a couple years ago in spring I found a really good deal on them (with the herbs), so I got one of each to try. I worried about them the first winter, but they made it just fine. Last fall I cut about half the stems down on each one early enough for them to start to grow new foliage at the base, and then I left the other half of the stems on all winter and cut them down all the way when the short stems started growing this spring. They were buried under snow most of this past winter, and, again, no problem at all to overwinter. Theyre evergreen, but the old foliage looks pretty ratty by spring. This is the first year theyve bushed out enough that Im not going to pinch them, and Ill actually get to see what the flowers look liketho Im not expecting anything spectacular. Glad to hear your knapii grew up fast. Years ago when I heard there was a yellow dianthus, I decided I had to have one, and I FINALLY got it. Actually, I have three of them, and theyre looking a little wimpy this yearbut yours look great. I finally got some pictures in my front yard today, so here are a few more pictures. This is the walk from the front of the garage up to the front door. The 3 hibiscus on the left will be starting to bloom by next week. The lavender is all from reseeding. The original one died a couple years ago. The roses are all cut down right now and some are starting to rebud for the second bloom. Heres the jumble of lavender and Siskiyou Pink Gaura lindheimeri (click to enlarge) Heres the hydrangea. This is the first year its looked good. Because of the weight of the flowers, its always been flopped all over the place in the past. This year I got it in a peony cage when it first started growing, and Ive been supporting it with successive loops of twine since it got above the top of the peony cage. Im still debating if I want to keep it or not. It really is a lot of work to make it look good, and even now, with all the support it has, if we get a heavy rain or any hail, itll be destroyed for the rest of the year. And heres one of my whisky barrels thats starting to get going pretty well. Its mostly annuals I started from seed, with some Wave petunias, and some things from the swap that havent started to bloom yet. J, the dark hollyhock is called a "black" hollyhock (Alcea rosea Nigra)its really DARK redand Ill have seed for it at the Fall Swap again. And Ill have mixed seed too, but theres no way to guarantee what youll get from that. I am going to collect seed from the ruffled one, but since they cross pollinate, the seed probably wont come true. Skybird

Jandey, You give me hope! To clarify, are you saying let them go dormant and bring them under lights in early spring to get them started? I was told that if I let them go dormant they will not have enough grow time to bloom before it gets cold again. So growing early under lights will eliminate that problem? If so, then the only one left to solve is where to place them in here while dormant. I really have no cool location at 55 or whatever. My garage is about 45 in January with -20 blasts from the garage doors opening and closing. This place is small so I do not have a sunroom. I can, however, grow them under T5 lights in various rooms like I do with other tropicals and orchids. I do have Celadine and ordered Divine last week so that one is taken care of.