You are comparing low end a100 to premium Sunrise with double seals. There's big price difference between the products. Where you will notice the major difference is matching sliding patio doors. A100 doors look cheap but expensive with deep ugly gray channel, collecting dirt.

The strength(or lack thereof) of a raw material material has little translation to the strength of an complete, engineered and assembled product. This "fuzzy math" is exploited more in the window industry than almost any other. That said, both of these windows are fine choices at worst.

The Sunrise casement is very good as vinyl casements go. I'm not a huge fan of fibrex as a material as my opinion is that it is more of a sales gimmick than revolutionary material to use in window construction, and I'd cite the fact that there are no other manufacturers doing so, unlike wood, vinyl, fiberglass, or metal. That said, I don't think the 100 series casement is a terrible window, but I'd choose the Sunrise option if the price is close.

BT, thanks for the comment. I appreciate the feedback on the sliding door as I will have a 12 ft one to include as well and was considering Sunrise 3 panel slider vs Andersen 200 series 4 panel sliders. Glad to hear Sunrise has a good one.

HomeSaled Exteriors, thanks as well for the feedback around Fibrex.

I think the 100 casement is a pretty decent window, though I have zero experience installing or servicing them. There is know advantage going with 100 over the Sunrise if you do not prefer the more organic look and different profiles That the Sunrise offers.

Typically Sunrise is sold to companies that specialize in windows , the 100 is available to any yahoo , so take caution when selecting an installation contractor.

Fibrex may not revolutionized the industry but it did revolutionize the Largest window manufacturer in North America.. Fibrex is used many other Andersen windows and doors and acessories , it. Is not simply a one material for all there products but more a family of products. Vinyl windows are the cheapest to produce and most companies by there extrusions from Large extrusions companies making them mostly assemblers. IMO there are few manufactures that can make there own extrusions let alone develop and develop a new material or Least be willliing to take the chance to..

That's a nice story Todd, I'm sure that Andersen sales people love to share it. How does any of that impact window quality, performance, or benefit the homeowner though? ... and again, I don't think that product is terrible despite the fact that I've personally replaced failed units at 9 years that weren't warrantied due to condensation damage on the interior. Just because Andersen went "all-in" on fibrex doesn't mean that it is better, nor does it mean that their motivation to do so wasn't primarily based on differentiating themselves from other products/manufacturers as opposed to producing something truly better. I think we'd agree that Renewal (RBA) has made a very profitable existence on that aspect, and if I were an Andersen executive I'd probably do the same thing... but also knowing that it would be called out in forums such as this. Fine window, nothing special.

i agree, fibrex was only develope to differantiate from some other products but aside from that., its not revolutionary. Again, the andersen 100 is junk and looks like junk in my view.

its different than renewal. Renewal is a pretty nice looking product whereas the 100 is not. the 100 series is MUCH flimsier. Again, nothing earth shattering about renewal.

I wouldn’t say they went “all in” on Fibrex, since they use wood ,aluminum, fiberglass and vinyl on there products. Building a product out of your waste and selling it the public for profit sounds pretty revolutionary to me. It is not the best product IMO but obviosly it has its place. I do feel they are built as stoutly as the Sunrise products but I am not familiar enough with renewals to compare directly. I would not call them flimsy and the looks are subjective . Trying to differentiate you’re product is Marketing 101 and gimmick or not it is pretty innovative IMO.

Most vinyl windows have included a recycled component for years, nothing new there. I suppose that it wasn't swept up off their own factory floor so there's a difference there. Either way, my other points stand, and I would agree with you that "it has its place", as well as that it is innovative marketing.

Vinyl is vinyl and is fine (irrespective of quality aspect) if you are ok with vinyl’s basic colour white on both sides. We wanted all white inside and black outside. We used 100 series and a very large number of them and each is flawless in quality, all windows are double casements, plus picture windows, a large number of transom and a a few others For sliders we used A series for our almost 60+‘ long wall of glass. Ordered through a very large local Anderson dealer, the large custom order was flawlessly built to perfection; perhaps we were the lucky ones. Two years parts and labor plus the usual parts extended warranty. We are satisfied. A few weeks ago i destroyed a double casement window, both panes with stones from my riding mower; Anderson sent me both for the replacement price of one, a significant saving and happy that Anderson have my back. I‘m not sure if HD sell the same quality 100 series as from an authorised Anderson dealer.

The marketing is far from innovative, the vinyl companies were doing it for decades before Fibrex. They are only making non structural parts from recycled plastic for vinyl windows which is very small percentage of the whole window. I would concer that some methods of recycling plastic are highly innovative and complex just as Fibrex is and is why you typically only see very large companies that develop these products. Come on over to MN and I’ll give you a tour ofbthe Bayport plant and take you to one of the top dive bars. We can tour, drink, argue and wrestle if needed.

@Pinebaron, are you under the impression that vinyl windows only come in white? To the contrary, they come in a variety of colors with coatings and laminates on both the interior and exterior. Many of them have more options in that regard than the Andersen product, and superior independently tested thermal and structural ratings to boot. The white/black combo is not uncommon. That said, glad to hear that you are pleased with your purchase and that Andersen is taking good care of you.

@Todd, some extruders/manufacturers mix a component of recycled pvc in with the virgin vinyl. That would include structural areas such as the mainframe of the window. As far as the marketing being "innovative" or not, I would suggest that the entire premise of fibrex as a material is based on marketing at its core, and you've suggested that this material is innovative = innovative marketing. Similar materials are used widely and have been for many years for other products such as decking, exterior trim boards, etc. That fact along with the fact that fiberglass presents greater challenges to manufacturing than something like a vinyl/sawdust combination (fibrex) suggests to me once again that the fact that it is virtually ignored by other manufacturers as a good material to build windows from is indicative of just that: it is not a uniquely good material to build windows from.

This is a copy cat world Todd, and anytime that someone makes a product that is truly innovative and BETTER, others will follow suit. Period. That is virtually inarguable, I can't imagine that you wouldn't agree with that. Certainly Andersen would love everyone to believe that they have somehow mastered this material in some sort of proprietary fashion, and that it has taken an enormous investment of resources that no other manufacturer could possibly match and that is the reason that nobody else is doing it. If one were to fall for that corporate propaganda, you may also be interested in purchasing some swamp land in Jersey. I'd suggest that the cost vs benefit in that type of material doesn't exist, except possibly for Andersen in the exclusivity of it for sales/marketing purposes. Other than that, as you stated, it costs far more than vinyl to produce, but offers little or no benefit to improving a finished window product.

Where are you in relation to the twin cities? I do get over there every so often with kids sports, we should catch up one of these days...

Pinebaron

i dont know what your idea of quality is but the andersen 100 is not only cheap looking but flimsy. Contrary to your statement, there most certainly is various qualities of vinyl.

Andersen 100 casement and fixed are semi decent. Andersen 100 single hung looks bad and cheap. When installed casements / fixed secured nicely to the structure. Unfortunately I could Not compare 100 casements to 800, but fixed windows appears that 800 has thicker frames that I Not like. I prefer the look of 100 .

All casements appear to have the same sill

Painting on vinyl is available but can add signicantbcost to the window.

The performance number between these 2 Windows is pretty close.

I was wrong in the recycled content in mainframes on some vinyl windows, though the content is pretty low or none.

I would disagree on the premise of the material being developed for pure marketing by looking at the timelines of start of product development til an actual product being sold. Innovative dorm not have to equal innovative marketing, but like I said the vinyl companies were Way ahead on this.

Even though there are “similar“ materials they came after Fibrex and are not as advanced. There is a reason the largest synthetic deck company any uses Fibrex in there handrails, if you ever seen there handrails the material is very obviously different and pretty strong to boot. The decking obviously took off faster than the windows and a much easier product to develop. I don’t think the sales numbers from the Renewals warranted a others to copycat , but I do think the 100 series could change that, Even though peaple do copy cat , economics tend to rule.

Mill have to take your expert word on the difficulty of manufacturing fiberglass, but just like vinyl all you have do is buy the extrusions and already developed machinery and you’re in. There is a reason there are so many vinyl companies out there today. there are probably 6 that are within a few hours of me. I think you are confusing my opinion about Fibrex with Andersen’s marketing. The truth is IMO is they have mastered fibrex, it is proprietary, most companies would not have the funds and the one that do are not going to take the chance. I do not know what it cost to produce but I think I could say the upfront cost were huge. I don’t think they intended this to compete with vinyl, but I think it competes well with other products it does compete with. Keep in mind they use Fibrex in the A-series, Woodwright, 400 and some there doors, accessories.

I would not say the 100 is flimsy the looks are subjective. I would define the Sunrise as a reference point for being flimsy.

I‘m in Dayton just outside of Mpls.

" I don’t think they intended this to compete with vinyl, but I think it competes well with other products it does compete with. "

At the end of the day, all products are competing aren't they? Homeowners need new windows, and wood, vinyl, and other niche options like fibrex or fiberglass are going after those same customers. It just so happens that there is not one material that can check ALL of the boxes for the "perfect" window, they all have their own pros and cons, and and consumers need to set their priorities and choose a window accordingly. In my strong opinion, vinyl and wood check the most boxes on one side or the other for most homeowners, but there are those searching for the elusive holy grail of windows that has the best of all worlds, and the fibrex and fiberglass offerings are there to scoop those folks up.

You seem like an independent thinker, hopefully more so than simply a contrarian, so let me ask you this Todd: What does an Andersen 100 do better than a high quality vinyl window? I'd throw fiberglass in there as well, although I'm sure all of the Marvin guys will come running now spewing their corporate propaganda about tensile strength, etc. Let me answer for you, but you tell me if you disagree: In comparison to that high end vinyl window, if a product of another material does not look better, perform better (thermally and structurally), offer less maintenance, a better warranty, or cost less, then what exactly is the reason for its existence? Differentiation. Why is being different important? It de-commoditizes (if that is a word) the product, therefore making it easier to market and sell, and/or to do so at a higher price.

I'd take that a step further, and say that with all of Andersen's vast wealth of resources, they could have probably engineered an absolutely KILLER vinyl window if they had wanted to, and certainly with all of the resources invested into fibrex they could have... So why didn't they? ... Sales and marketing. At the end of the day, that is what it all comes down to. When one chooses "different" over actually "better", the only explanation is because of the impact on sales and marketing. Its easier to convince somebody that something that looks and feels different is actually better even when its not, and harder to explain to them that something that looks and feels the same or similar (ie: premium vinyl windows vs junk vinyl windows) is actually better.

Of course I know it competes with vinyl and wood as Well. It is typically more than vinyl, at least in the cost of product itself. I think they could have produced a “killer“ window as well but I think they had a price point in mind and a place in there line up for it to fit. I think it fits well and is priced reasonably and competes well with what I would call it more direct competitors , such as the Marvin All Ultrex/Essentials, Pella Impervia and Kolbe Forgent. IMO It was not meant to compete with the small regional companies that sell “high end” plastic windows that often come with high pressure sales or 3 hour presentations and can only be thought through exclusive dealers. It is a nice option for people who do not want shiny plastic. Windows with beveled and contoured profiles. I have never sold a 100 series or even installed one, I prefer my shiny plastic, Most of my comments are based on opinion only, I have pretty much zero idea why Andersen does what do or there marketing strategies but whatever they all were it seems to working nice for them.

Windowmaster: We must live on different planets or we are not looking at the same quality casement windows, perhaps their single hung may be bad; we definitely would not have installed dozens of Anderson 100 windows if the quality was flawed. Our double casements are 6'x5' and they look great and perform great. We don't have to agree since we have our own opinions however mine are as an owner. Talk to me in twenty years!

Sure there are colored vinyl windows out there but these are coated with paint and I doubt any are with solid colors; good luck to you!

Composite windows are superior in every way to vinyl windows. They are low maintenance, energy efficient, attractive, and add value to a house. Homeowners can change up their look whenever they feel the need. They will also enjoy the benefits of composite windows for more years than they will own the house.

Vinyl is made to keep its color for years. If you want to change your look every now and then, then vinyl isn’t for you.

Vinyl has fewer color choices

Vinyl windows don’t add as much to the resale value of a house as other types of window

Customization of windows is difficult because vinyl is difficult to mold

Pinebaron, perhaps you are overcompensating a little bit for some of the comments by others? I think that the windows that you chose are just fine, but you have made several inaccurate and baseless statements:

-Yes, most of the vinyl exterior colors are a coating, although there are a small handful of extrusion colors as well. Are you aware that your windows are coated in a similar fashion?

-Composite windows are unfortunately not superior in every way. I can give you multiple vinyl windows that are actually superior in every way, and even more so if we talk about double hungs as opposed to casements. Again, not saying that your windows are bad, but your statement is inaccurate and cannot be supported with relevant data such as thermal and structural performance ratings, etc. Apparently Andersen agrees as they only warranty the product for 10 years.

- Some vinyl products have unlimited color choices, not fewer.

-On resale, I don't believe that your statement can be supported. Quality and performance will dictate resale value to a savvy buyer, although I will say that names like Andersen, Pella, and Marvin will indeed strike a chord with the average person. That said, if you are planning on selling anytime soon you are problem going with the El Cheapo window choice anyway. At least that is what I see most often. I'll give you a few points on this one, at least in the fact that name recognition can be a factor, and "composite" sounds cool and interesting even if there are no actual benefits.

- "Customization of windows is difficult because vinyl is difficult to mold". HUH? Lol. Not sure what that means. As discussed above, vinyl is very common due to its low cost and ease of manufacturer, nothing "difficult to mold" about it. I'm also curious to know what customization that that Andersen line does that isn't possible in vinyl, and also has anything to do with "molding" it... and particularly since fibrex is vinyl based, just add sawdust.

Andersen fibrex is indeed made up of about 80% vinyl and the remaining sawdust. Thats not revolutionary to me. The 100 series is much less stout than the fibrex design seen in Renewal by the way. The 100 series is flimsy, anyone can go to home depot and see this first hand.

fiurther, a high end vinyl offering will be much more air tight and efficient than the andersen. Thats a fact based on independent testing.

The 100 series colors are all the way through, even the ones with 2 colors. . The performance numbers are decent , compete well with there more direct competition ( same with warranty), and compete well with the high end vinyl named in this thread. I think you will see different opinions on the resale value each window material brings to a home since there are many people that think vinyl looks cheap weather it’s high end or not. My wife really does not care for vinyl windows in are house or any house ( A brand that I mostly sell).

The one thing that Fibrex does offer is the look and feel of the material, all subjective I say IMO.

The ratio is about 60/40. Taking sawdust and vinyl and spinning it into gold sounds pretty revolutionary to me. If you look at the air infiltration numbers and U-values. Of the Sunrise and 100 they are very similar.

We don't care for 100% Vinyl either however everyone to their own; less vinyl is better than all vinyl (to us anyway). No we did not purchase 100s from HD which may be a different quality product.

What Is Fibrex® Material?

• A blend of 40 percent wood fiber by weight, mostly reclaimed from Andersen manufacturing processes, with 60 percent thermoplastic polymer by weight, some of which is also reclaimed.
• Blocks thermal transfer nearly 700 times better than aluminum to help reduce heating and cooling bills. I can attest to that my heating bills are surprisingly low for the amount of glass we have in this large home; admittedly the home is very tight and insulated extremely well.
• Reduces VOC emissions because no wood preservative treatments or painting is required.
• Twice as strong as vinyl, so weathertight seals stay weathertight.
• Retains its stability and rigidity in all climates.
• A unique fabrication process blends the color with the Fibrex® material during production for long-lasting beauty.
• Resists rot, decay and fungal growth, and won’t flake, blister, peel, pit or corrode*
• Fibrex won't warp due to sun exposure like vinyl windows will

High end Vinyl or low end vinyl; vinyl is vinyl. Composite definitely sounds better regardless it has vinyl mixed in. It's like decking, wood or composite; what do folks like more.

That was a nice infomercial. Al the 100 series are the same no matter the retailer. Most people use U values for window performance expectation not seat of the pants. Companies like to test the strength of there products in a way the strength is irrelevant to the way the product is used. You can check out Marvin’s and Kolbe and Kolbes claims That make Fibrex look weak.

I think that if you took the time to look at some quality vinyl windows you would change you’re mind , sure they make all look like plastic but there is a very obvious difference to those with even little knowledge. Composite may sound trendy but All windows are made from or with composites.

We looked at Kolbe Forgent All Glastra. Very Very wide frame, definitely sturdier .... but do you really want or need this? Andersen 100s look more modern, thinner.

My wife likes dark bronze finishes [56 windows] ... there is an additional substantial premium for that with Kolbe. The price difference was so egregious A100s (list -x0% vol) vs Kolbe list + 30% just silly. What do I really get for that?

We looked at Marvin Moderns ... nice but very expensive

Simonton pro builds ... -40% less than andersen 100s at volume disc but all white.

I am confused, what’s your point.? Look at Marvin All Ultrex for a more direct comparison. The Firgent series does for me .

oooh... getting sneaky on me Todd... "they compete well with their direct competition" in reference to warranty-- but we are comparing them to vinyl at this point. 10 years < Lifetime, or 30 years (lifetime defined in my state of WI). I agree though, the 10 year warranty (i don't think you can find a window warrantied for a shorter term) is comparable to wood and some other "composites" and fiberglass. Others yet ("composites") though do have a lifetime warranty. I'd also suggest that the performance numbers don't compete with some of the best vinyl performers, although in yet another nuanced response you specified "vinyl mentioned in this thread" which again would be accurate speaking about that specific product. Does the 100 come in triple pane? With all of that "strength" it must. How do their best U values compare to the best U values attainable in the Sunrise casement? I'm not being coy, I honestly don't know...

You mentioned colors as well, and if I'm not mistaken, they have a few "all the way through" colors similar to vinyl. If one wants a green exterior, or an off white interior, it would be painted, similar to a vinyl window. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, perhaps they don't even offer those colors at all which make the comments of pinebaron that much farther from accurate.

@Pinebaron, did you just copy and paste that from the Andersen website? As todd already called out, it offers little substance. Its great that you "feel a difference in your home", however the actual ratings tell the story. I may feel just fine in my home with r13 wall insulation, but only a moron would suggest that it is somehow superior to r19 or even higher. Similarly, one would have to be either misinformed or completely disingenuous to talk about how strong a product is based only on a test of raw material, as opposed to a test of the completely assembled product. There are vinyl double hungs and casements that test out at DP70 and 80. What is the Andersen 100?

Yes I did cut and paste from somewhere; my bad. All in all, we wanted to get away from the 'plastic' vinyl look and we did and happy with the decision; the rest has been beaten to death in this thread.

> How do their best U values compare to the best U values attainable in the Sunrise casement?

Last time I checked they were identical: 0.27 to 027; 0.24 to 0.24 (based on cardinal glass)

@Pinebaron: THAT... is a pretty fair statement. There are vinyl windows that do not have a "plastic" interior look given various laminates and cap stocks, but no need to continue on. After all, my questions were getting tough ;). Once again, glad that you are happy with your choice, and I'll reiterate my opinion that its not a bad window.

@BT, you should probably check again. NFRC.org is a great reference. I'll save you the trouble if you'd like and tell you that they have a casement that gets as low as .15 U value with triple pane glass. Frankly I'm not even the biggest fan of Sunrise, but the question was as you quoted me, " > How do their best U values compare to the best U values attainable in the Sunrise casement? "

I did not search through all 104 pages of Andersen 100 NFRC listings, but after a couple dozen random pages, .23 was the best that I saw.

Both of those could be misapplied in the wrong climate, but again, BEST vs BEST doesn't seem to be very close here.

Thanks to everyone for the comments and sharing opinions on Fibrex vs Vinyl.

I am leaning towards the Sunrise windows and this being a new construction will be adding the nail fin and j channel but it sounds like Sunrise does not offer extension jambs. As a result, my builder is recommending I find a different window manufacturer that offers new construction windows with jamb extensions.

What would you all recommend in this situation, if I would really like to go with Sunrise? Thanks in advance for the help.

Build your own extension jambs. How are trimming the openings?

Haven't thought about that yet to be honest. Open to suggestions on the best approach for a clean, simple look.

Drywall returns are about as clean and simple as it gets, No extensions needed.

you use extensions and picture frame the opening. I tend to like stools. I made samples and actually nailed them up and then modified them a few times.

Sunrise most certainly does offer extension jambs for new construction. I dont like the look of stools since its very dated. I think a picture frame look is much cleaner looking.

@Mike O, I agree with Todd that this isn't much of an issue. I would not choose a window based on the availability of jamb extensions from the factory. I don't know if Sunrise offers them or not, but they do offer a full interior trim kit if I'm not mistaken that comes prefinished. Can't get much more comprehensive than that.

The other options as Todd mentioned are drywall returns (no JE needed), or the finish carpenter that would be adding the casing and all other finish trim work in the home. No reason that this individual couldn't add the JE's as well.

ok thank you all. this makes sense....thanks for these options. seems like having our finish carpenter add during trim process. it is reassuring to hear this should not sway my decision to go with sunrise.

Pick the window that you like based on performance, quality, etc. Little stuff like this should factor much if at all.

I used Andersen 100 on a new home 2018 casement, Sliders and fixed Windows all perform beautiful black exterior white interior great windows will not hesitate to build with them again.

Mike, we did drywall returns because I wanted a simple and clean look (Andersen 400). It's fantastic and the black frame of the window remains small. Sure, more $$ for the drywaller but worth it.

I just received 8 large 100series Andersen windows to be installed in my sunroom. My builder found one cracked and said the others were cheaply made and he didn’t feel right putting them in as cheaply made as they are. So....... we are sending them back and now I have to wait another 12 weeks or more for another set of windows to be made somewhere else. They DEFINITELY won’t be Andersen windows. Very disappointing!

100 series is their very basic entry line window. If they are a large window (don't know your definition of large) they could seem somewhat flimsy.

My 400 ones are not disappointing at all! It took 4 men to install the 6x6 picture window, they kept asking why it was so heavy.

Cannot compare 400 series with the 100 series really two different animals entirely.

My point was to maybe give Anderson another try since he is reordering anyways, and will be dealing with Anderson.

Very true and good thought. And to add to HU-708819512 anything in the price range of the 100's in a "large" window may very well give you the same if not more issues.

The Andersen 100 places the glass flush with the siding for an ultra-modern bug-eyed look. Its not remotely suitable for a traditional house design. I might use it for a fixed shower window on the back of a house but would prefer a Marvin Essential.

just to follow up on my original post. I ended up going with Sunrise and couldn't be happier with the decision.