May he rot in h3ll.

I'd like to see proof that he is dead as well as an explanation of how it was allowed to happened.

He is much more useful alive. Just think of the sickening list of names and crimes he could have shared.

He was still on suicide watch and they are processing the cell as a crime scene. As they should under the circumstances of everything that has transpired. Good riddance.

Many will have conspiracy theories about someone/some group in power who saw to it he didn’t have to testify.

Suicide in jail - the ultimate guilty plea, though that wasn't necessary in this case with overwhelming evidence. He was a sick and disgusting person who ruined too many lives.

I haven't read the morning news yet but I guess conspiracy theories are to be expected. Prison justice for child abusers is common but I'm sure he was isolated from the general prison population - the people that run lockups are more than mindful of what often happens to people like him.

I had what was called "The Death class" in college and as regards suicide, many experts at the time were of the view that oftentimes suicide is a selfish and cowardly act. That description more than applies to the few people I know who have committed suicide. If that's found conclusively to be his cause of death, it could be true here too.

There's no evidence that there's anything like an afterlife or any other "destination" that follows death. That's my view too - dead is dead, the show's over.

From my personal experience as a nurse in a high risk psychiatric jail population years ago: a suicide watch at that time was actually seeing the person being watched every 15 minutes and documenting.

When I had a patient on suicide watch I took the requirement seriously, because even in the suicide cells where it would seem that nothing that could be a means to suicide was apparent, patients still managed to smuggle in items inside themselves. However, some nurses and/or psyche techs would document without actually having seen the patient.

But by the same token I had personally seen a prisoner who was bruised claim he was beaten by a deputy, and I found out the hard way that required nursing reports on such incidents were discouraged.

Between fact hiding and carelessness, we may never know what happened.

For the last several years I have volunteered for a local organization called ICT/SOS which deals with sex trafficking. We all watched this documentary a few years ago and it is very surprising. You might be able to find it somewhere else that you don't have to pay for it. I am Jane Doe

Saved the taxpayers a lot of money.

Apparently, being on "suicide watch" in federal prison means that someone watches you while you commit suicide.

Maybe the watcher can take action to thwart the self-initiated attempt at death.

In addition ... when did you last see a Brinks truck in a funeral procession?

Hope he was one of the more or less half of the population who'd made a will.

By the way - everyone has a will!

About half of the population choose to make one ...

... and the others have one put in place by the state/province.

That seldom divides things as the former owner would have chosen. And always adds to costs ... and always causes delays.

ole joyful

Reporting says he was taken off suicide watch. That should never have happened.

"Just weeks ago, Epstein was temporarily placed on a suicide watch after he was found July 23 in his Manhattan jail cell with marks on his neck, a law enforcement source and a source familiar with the incident told CNN at the time.

It was not clear in July to jail officials if those injuries, which were not serious, were self-inflicted or the result of an assault, the sources said. Epstein told authorities he was beaten up and called a child predator, they said.

Daily psychological assessments were conducted on him, and at the end of the month, psychologists with the Bureau of Prisons took him off suicide watch, according to a source familiar with the matter."

I had to ask my brother who he was. But I think I did hear some people at the table next to ours at breakfast talking about him. I didn't know what they were talking about until I saw this thread and asked my brother if he knew who JE was.

That's odd Lucille, didn't know that. When we had a patient who even mentioned wanting to kill themselves in the hospital I worked at, we had to have a sitter put on them immediately. They were never left alone.

Kathsgarden, the difference may have to do with money. I worked for a while in the high risk area of a private for-profit psychiatric hospital, and it was the same deal, every 15 minute checks and documentation on a suicide watch. For the county jail, they simply did not have the budget or resources for a 1:1, and I'm guessing that the for-profit hospital looked out for it's profits.

I did, in my years as a school nurse, have a few students with suicide ideations. They were put on a 1:1 until their parents picked them up, and were not permitted back until they brought a note from a psychiatrist that they were not a threat to themselves.

Not mourning, but very skeptical about this "suicide". As per Yahoo News, he attempted to take his own life, then was taken off suicide watch a week later. Something smells fishy to me

Jasdip, this isn't over yet, so I hope his clients are revealed. He had help with this part of his life too, so who assisted him?

Of course he’d take the cowards way out, if it was in fact suicide. Either way the world is unquestionably a better place without him. I won’t mention names, but I have to admit (without an oz of remorse) there are a few others that I sure wish would follow in his footsteps

Either way the world is unquestionably a better place without him.

Actually, I thought Rhizo made a good point when she pointed out that alive, he could have shared the names of the many others who I'm sure also took part in his ventures.

Apparently, many names were included in the thousand(s) of paperwork released yesterday. It is opined that may have set off another suicide mission.

" he could have shared the names of the many others who I'm sure also took part in his ventures. "

What does that accomplish besides fueling the curiosity of the voyeurs among us in the general public?

Elmer, perhaps I did not make myself clear enough. I was speaking of his business venture partners. There is no way that he could have done all the trafficking he was accused of doing by himself. I am sure there must be a network of people who helped. It would accomplish a great deal to identify and deal with that network.

He said nothing about others previously when he went to jail with the sweetheart plea bargain he got 10+ years ago, there's no reason to believe there would have been anything different now.

Isn't it amazing how unconcerned and accepting the religious right is about all the immorality and sickening conduct displayed by those with significant Republican connections.

Actually, I thought Rhizo made a good point when she pointed out that alive, he could have shared the names of the many others who I'm sure also took part in his ventures

Usually, I’d agree with you, but he didn’t name names the last time he was put in prison so I seriously doubt he would have done so this time. Men like him feel entitled to do what they do and feel no remorse for doing so. On the other hand, his female companion that was finding girls for him might be easily compelled to share.

"Men like him feel entitled to do what they do and feel no remorse for doing so. "

He flouted and violated both the law and societal mores and did what he wanted, apparently without any regret or fear of being caught. The scale was grand because he for whatever reason had access to a lot of money.

I think the apparent attitudes and lack of remorse he's displayed are common among law breakers of either gender. It happens what he did is more commonly a male undertaking.

But not exclusively. There are monthly news items about female child abusers, often school teachers, who have had sexual activity with underage male students. Not infrequently, it's with multiple partners. Do you want to generalize something about the attitude of women based on these out of control individuals?

> " he could have shared the names of the many others who I'm sure also took part in his ventures. "

> What does that accomplish besides fueling the curiosity of the voyeurs among us in the general public?

What it could have accomplished is bring to light instances of others who participated in his "ventures" meaning his sexual assaults on underage females or statutory rape, which are crimes. Therefore by "sharing those names" AKA testifying against other criminals, those other criminals could also have been charged, tried and possibly even convicted. Or even in cases where the statute of limitations had run out those fellow criminals could at least face exposure, and opprobrium and public scorn for their depraved actions.

> He said nothing about others previously when he went to jail with the
sweetheart plea bargain he got 10+ years ago, there's no reason to
believe there would have been anything different now.

Its entirely possible that the illegal "sweetheart plea bargain" deal he received previously, was in exchange for his silence about the others involved. If so, it is worth asking what strings were pulled to secure the "sweetheart plea bargain", and who pulled those strings, and why.

The difference is that this time there would have been enough scrutiny that he wouldn't have been able to be offered such a sweetheart plea bargain. Instead he was likely facing years or decades behind bars, so he perhaps would have offered to give evidence against those others in exchange for a reduced term or a less harsh location.

Given that several well known political figures as well as wealthy "captains of industry" reportedly "hobnobbed" with Epstein, on multiple occasions. While some of them may have been merely attending parties or events hosted by Epstein, others may have participated in acts that they'd prefer were not common knowledge, and might have taken actions to ensure his silence.

I know this all sounds like a "conspiracy theory", and it is. But its highly unlikely that the prosecutor in the original case decided all by himself to shutdown the ongoing investigation and seal all of the gathered evidence and offer Epstein a ludicrously lenient plea deal. So with more than one person communicating and cooperating and an outcome that is illegal that is the very definition of a criminal conspiracy.

He had been taken off suicide watch. I hope they don't spend all the money they saved not having a trial, investigating why he was removed from suicide watch. Good riddance of a dreadful man.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories.

Elmer- I don't think anyone attacked men in general but it is a well known fact that these types of predatory sexual crimes disproportionately affect women, and are highly likely to be perpetrated by men.

Is it an absolute? No. Is it always men? No.

Are we painting men as the absolute evil of the universe, again No.

But to ignore reality is illogical at best.

He said nothing about others previously when he went to jail with the sweetheart plea bargain he got 10+ years ago, there's no reason to believe there would have been anything different now.

There is no question that some people are unfairly protected by the justice system and that sometimes a sweetheart deal is exchanged for silence so that others in power will not be implicated. To then say that true justice is not possible and corruption will always win denies our world and our children a future where corruption is unacceptable. Might he have again been protected had he lived? Maybe. Should we give up any effort trying to overcome corruption? No. When we stop trying to overcome corruption and injustice, not only does it win, but the very acceptance changes who we are.

TG, the comment seemed vacuous to me and that was why I responded as I did.

You could use the same words and apply it to female teachers who molest male students, to continue the same example. Take any of those incidents and say

"Women like her feel entitled to do what they do and feel no remorse for doing so."

Saying such words in isolation suggests something unique about the gender in general and about any particular law breaking perversions. My comment was, such a description is true about any law breaker and any activity. So what?

Taken off suicide watch and a surveillance camera malfunction??? What are the odds?

I'm sure he was as surprised as anyone that he committed suicide, LOL

"”Washington Post reporter Carol Leonnig reports that Jeffrey Epstein told authorities someone tried to kill him in a previous incident weeks ago, and that people close to him now fear that he was murdered."

For no reason he was taken off suicide watch and they're now reporting there was a surveillance camera malfunction.”

Plus the guards on duty were apparently not checking on him every 30 minutes, and his cell mate had been transferred leaving him alone, both violations of prison policy according to the NYT.

Wow! Look at who is calling the kettle black! I don’t think your wording is perfect all the time either and often times it’s just as insulting, but I don’t post to specifically criticize it or anyone else’s for that matter. It’s an unhelpful and even offensive habit. Why can’t you just focus on the OP and not critique every comment that isn’t worded (or spelled) to your satisfaction?

This thread is about a man of means and privilege. I don’t see your example of teachers as being even remotely in the same category.

Even when you look at the list of accused high profile abusers in the metoo movement the number of women in the list pales compared to men.

You have a weird habit of participating in threads where the majority of contributors are women. Since that’s obviously your thing, than you need to realize (or learn) that women naturally think differently and express themselves differently then men. If you can’t accept that and get along with the way women express their thoughts, maybe you should look at participating in a forum where it’s predominately men instead.

My words were about your words, not about you. Your insults are tiresome, I'll start reporting them if you can't control yourself.

Edit to add - see my added comment below

I'm sure he was as surprised as anyone that he committed suicide, LOL

I know this is a serious subject, but this made me laugh. Thanks jasdip!

My words were about your words as well, and reporting can work two ways.

"You really need to get over yourself!" is an insulting personal comment.

Edit to add - this insult I've quoted (I copied and pasted) was removed either by the person who made it or by a moderator. Good either way but it orphans the comment. The wording on a comment above also seems to have been edited so the context has changed, for the good, but that's why some of the comments appear unrelated to what is now available to read.

I'm proud to say I am a conspiracy theorist! You all remember my post about Megan Markle not really being pregnant? Well, I changed my mind on that one since she did look like a postpartum woman with lovely curves and chubby cheeks. But I do not for one second think JE committed suicide. He knew too much, and I bet he was willing to finally talk. Hopefully they can put the squeeze to Ghislaine Maxwell and get her to sing. I hear she's currently unavailable and in hiding I'm assuming. But from whom??? Dun dun dun....(law & order)

Lessee...

"A man" was found unresponsive in a jail cell supposedly occupied by Epstein and pronounced dead at hospital. (It's not Epstein/Epstein was never incarcerated/Epstein was 'vanished' at some point while in custody and is safe in South America/Other permutations.)

Epstein committed suicide in his jail cell, unaided.

Epstein was proved the means to suicide.

Epstein was killed by fellow prisoners/authorities and the crime made to look like suicide.

...Can we rehash "The Princes in the Tower" now?

Once you have 'the dirt' on powerful people they will serve you or kill you.