I empathize, shebabee, without being able to help, sadly. My GMH although young looks great here, but I have other roses looking pathetic. My Climbing Pinky is chlorotic, my Reve d'Or looks cooked, my Buff Beauty just sits there and won't grow. My own root Evelyn is pale and wan. I've had some huge rose canes get flat head apple borer damage and have to be cut off. My La France is yellow green in foliage rather than dark green. My White Cap looks cooked and I am almost tempted to cut it to the ground next Spring. In theory I could give chlorotic plants sulfur or iron or nitrogen, but these plants seemed to be happier in the Spring. Am I overwatering or do these roses not like it here? Who knows? Other plants look really happy with the same treatment. The patterns are not totally clear to me yet. August is probably not going to resolve any of these problems. Good luck there, shebabee.

Jeri, black spot is a constant here. Yes, GMH has some, and I think this year it was more of the "damask crud" nature. We've actually finally had some sunny weather in this part of the city, interspersed with the endless gray with highs of 63F. Most of the year, I'm in the gray and the fog. A week or two of hot sun in October and sometimes February. So I'm used to lots of BS and defoliation -- I know I tolerate foliage that would send most folks to shovel-prune. But I don't even see signs of active growth nodes except for that last 12 or 16 inches of her (few) limbs. She's looking pretty anemic, too -- what leaves there are, are much paler than yours or Annie's. And even when she leafs out, she won't be nearly as leafy as yours or Annie's.

Do you think it would help to cut her back? Would that encourage more branching or growth activity along the current branches? Other roses -- Buff Beauty in the ground, numerous others in pots -- send out new basals and I have tons of new growth on many roses. But GMH just seems to be suffering. : (

I'll give her a dose of some of my special ($$) fish stuff (Vital Fish hydrolysate) -- this stuff seems to be magic for my roses. But just want to be sure I'm doing all I should for GMH. I really love this rose and I think it's looking worse over time now rather than better, unlike my other roses.

Sheila, thanks for the comiseration. How old is your Buff Beauty? BB is my oldest most established rose. I think I put her in 5 or 6 years ago. I was told she would be very slow to get going --that was true. For three years next to nothing happened. I think in year 3 I had one truss of 3 flowers. Around year 4, I started watering her more and feeding her more. I have crappy soil (it's sand). But once I started giving her some more attention and food, whoa. Big fat red basals appeared, and over the past 3 years, I've had tons of blooms and lots of growth.

Buff Beauty is one of the best for my climate/situation, doesn't BS except some leaves that are about to drop, very healthy. She really, really responded to the Vital Fish hydrolysate, as have all my roses. You can basically see them growing within a few days. The stuff is spendy. I'm sure you have much better soil than I do, so maybe just more compost or other supplement might help? She is a gorgeous rose. I hope yours picks up.

Part of it is the sand issue, Shebabee; part of it is light intensity and part is "heat". Sandy soil presents its own set of issues...water stress; lack of water holding capacity; lack of nutrient reserve, etc, meaning it requires the addition of a great deal of organic material or heavy, continuous applications of water and fertilizer so you're basically gardening "hydroponically". Grandmother's Hat is actually quite shade tolerant, meaning she doesn't demand as much direct sunlight as many others to survive and even flower, but the greater the amount of light, the more she responds with growth and flowers...up to the point where the amount and intensity of sunlight overwhelm the water she has available. Sequoia Nursery had an ENORMOUS one about in the middle of the nursery where it received filtered light through very large trees. They kept the plant hacked at about 8' and it spread out in every direction, flowering like the weed it is. But, being in Visalia, it also had HEAT much of the growing season, so that filtered sun was accompanied by WARM to HOT air/wind and a good level of ground water, which I am positive it had found and made very efficient use of.

Yes. I think cutting her back might jolt her into picking up again. One of our (many) GramHats did something like that. I finally took off all of the old non-productive wood, and she popped back into growth.

But of all of my GH's, the one that is closest to what you're describing is the "NOrthside Pink" clone from Mare Island. And I KNOW what her problem is. Jammed between Secret Garden Musk Climber on the right, and Fourth of July on the left, she struggles for light and air.

This is just my opinion, not based on anything other than gut feeling, but I would try cutting the canes down considerably, in a staggered fashion, so that some are longer than others, just in case the rose doesn't like being trimmed too severely. You seem to be doing everything right otherwise.

I really might try that, sheshabee, on my Buff Beauty. She has probably been sitting there 4 years or so. Thank you for the helpful suggestion. She looks really healthy, just doesn't grow.

Remember "apical dominance"? Sap pressure is highest at the apex (highest point). It's the same with our bodies. Blood pressure is highest at the ends of our fingers, toes and top of our head, therefore bleeding is worst at those points. That sap (blood) pressure is what pushes growth and flowering. Remember in training climbers so you obtain flowers all along the cane, instead of only at the tops, you draw the canes downward, off the vertical, to even out the sap pressure? This is very related to Ingrid's suggestion of cutting the canes lower to encourage branching and foliage formation lower down the plant. Light plays into this, also. You can cut like a fiend, but if those cuts are in too low light, you're not going to get leaves. The plant "knows better" than to waste resources making solar panels where there is insufficient light to use them. Leaves ARE solar panels, they utilize sunlight to achieve photosynthesis. If there isn't enough light to accomplish photosynthesis, the leaves turn yellow and fall off, because the plant has withdrawn the sap (resources) from those shaded leaves to use elsewhere.

If you have bare cane, it's either because there is insufficient light to support leaves or there is enough cane length above that point to provide the sap somewhere to go, bypassing those buds where there are no leaves growing. The sap is following its pressure to the end of that cane (apical dominance), to push new growth and potentially flowering. If you want leaves where there are none, IF there is enough light to support them, you have to either bend the cane to interrupt the sap flow, spreading it out ALONG that cane (training climbers) to push new growth from the lateral buds. OR, you have to cut that length off to produce a new "apex", end point, to stop the sap at that point, to push new foliage and growth there. If the plant is in full growth mode, that wound is going to "bleed" a lot, which is why we have pruning sealers. Yes, they can function to help prevent borers, but they also stop the bleeding so that sap isn't lost and new growth is pushed from the increased sap flow at that new "apex".

Kim, thank you. Yes, that makes sense. Personally, I sure wish we had a bit more heat here! We had to have the heat on several evenings this month, on the 4th of July, in fact, as it was so cold. Just a couple of miles across town -- most of my roses would be much happier!

I've had fewer blooms this year from her, but she has bloomed well for me in the past. I will have to step up the feeding and amending soil. I've at least been seeing some earthworms in the soil lately, which I almost never saw before. I'm grateful that this rose and my others tolerate my conditions enough to bloom at all, let alone any that bloom quite a lot -- but seeing Annie's plants in person, and Jeri's and others in photos, the difference is enormous.

Jeri and Ingrid, thank you. I will take to the pruners--I've had that instinct, as well. Is now a good time to do it? I mean, my climate is basically the same all year round. I'd just not touch any that are budding or leafing out now. Jeri, do you think it's likely that she will resent pruning? As the 3 canes are maybe 6 feet tall -- would you cut back as much as 3 feet? Ingrid, yes, I will stagger the cuts.

Thanks again, all. I'm going to go out and feed everybody this afternoon.

You're welcome! I understand your lack of heat. Though it's felt "warm" a few times here so far this summer, it hasn't been. My plums and peaches are coloring beautifully, softening and falling from the trees but they aren't characteristically sweet because they haven't received the amount of heat required to make the sugars to produce the expected flavors. We grow strawberries around here like mad and they aren't very good, compared to prior years, either. The roses which flower before the "heat" arrives have been flowering well. Those requiring heat to flower...nope. So, I have a ton of pollen with very little to actually use it on. But, there have also been VERY few hours where the temperatures have been uncomfortably warm. That's a good thing!

Kim, re your second comment -- thank you, this is very educational. Apical dominance and I have not previously met. ;p So now I have to consider that if I cut too low, there may not be adequate light. GMH has reached upward for more sun, though she is in the best spot I have in my tiny plot. Perhaps I cut some and bend others?

By contrast, Buff Beauty, just a few feet away in the same lousy soil, shoots out new basals and new growth, with masses of blooms. And Mlle. Cecile Brunner (cl), in a large pot, over in the darker area, is covered in new red growth all over. She did send out long canes toward the light, but still is not naked above say 2 feet.

More to think about. Keep the recommendations coming, all!

Sheila -- yes, if Buff Beauty is @ 4 years now, I bet you will be seeing a lot of progress soon, and I would try giving her some lovely meals and plenty of water. Mine really took off at that point -- and it's amazing to see how fast those big red new basals grow. Keep us posted.

You're welcome! Each one is going to have different thresholds of light, heat, water, nutrients necessary to trigger it into growth and flowering. Notice which roses are better adapted to lower light. They tend to have smaller flowers, fewer petals and of lighter colors. Smaller flowers require fewer resources to produce than larger ones do. Fewer petals require less to generate than greater numbers of them do and less double flowers require less heat and direct light to push them open than very double blooms. Flowering is ovulation. Fruit set is pregnancy. Everything in Nature is programmed to reproduce, perpetuate its species, before it dies. Lighter colors reflect more light in lower light conditions than darker colors.

Buff Beauty and Cecile Brunner have smaller, lighter colored flowers with smaller petals than Grandmother's Hat. I would expect them to be more adaptable to lower light and cooler temps than Grandmother's Hat, though GH IS more shade tolerant than MANY larger flowered roses of all types. Definitely experiment with pegging (bending) as well as pruning. Good luck!

This being too hot for some roses to be comfortable is a new one for me. One thing I am delighted with is that Tea roses seem happy here. It might be too hot for a few individual plants, but at least the Teas are happy.

Sheila -- I have seen some roses that simply do not "enjoy" hot, dry weather. (And others which don't like cool, humid weather.) To some extent, you have to experiment.

Sheba -- I think you're going to have to experiment, too, with cutting back. Since she is, clearly, not happy as she is, perhaps surgery will help. But of course, there are no guarantees! But if those canes are just not producing new growth at this point, SOMETHING has to change.

The knowledge received here is phenomenal, and there are no tuition fees. Thank you, Kim, and also Jeri.

Ingrid, I do agree! I have learned so much here. I don't think I'd even have roses if not for you-all, and I know I wouldn't have rose babies that I've propagated myself!

Grandma Update: You know how you can have a chronic malady and you keep delaying a trip to the doctor, and then the day of your appointment, the malady mysteriously -- resolves? You don't? Well, you know how for weeks and weeks your hair will look like the dog's breakfast, and then you finally get an appointment at the hair salon and are all excited, and you wake up the morning of your appointment and your hair is PERFECT??

That's -- sort of what happened this evening. I went out to water the roses and my gosh, what a surprise, I found that Grandma is suddenly pushing out lots more leaflets and some farther down the stems, and canes that (I thought) two days ago were showing NO life actually are showing many tiny little pink and green tips. AND there was a big fat gorgeous open bloom, and another small one. Gram's foliage still looks pallid, and yes, her legs are bare a good ways up, but things look far less bleak. I did bend and tie out some canes and branches so they're not all just shooting up vertically.

I will keep a closer eye on Grandma and remember to keep up with the nutrition and extra water. Hopefully, she'll green up and maybe there will be a new basal one of these days. But at least I can see that she's not in a complete free-fall now.

Thanks much to everyone for the very helpful information and advice today.

Sheba

shebabee, that is a wonderful recovery. Well, seems all is resolved .But next behaviour will be a few snips to make it more beautiful. Grandma knows the remedy for quick recovery.
Congrats !!
jin