Hi Donald, welcome to the Winter Sowing Forum. *It's recommended to basically make flats of somekind out of materials at hand, put soil in them -> sow your seeds --> set flats outside in a "safe" area --> wait till spring to see what comes up.* Yep, that's basically what it is, and the nicest aspect, I think, of the method is that you get to do it your way with what you have and within the size of your own wallet. *Wouldnt it be easier to just direct sow in the soil where you want the future plants to be?* All seeds that can be WinterSown can also be Direct Sown, but they should be sown heavily because Mother Nature takes the vast majority of direct sown seeds to feed her critters and biota. Direct Sowing, also called Direct Seeding, is a traditional method for sowing seeds outdoors. It involves preparing the soil bed, sowing the seeds, and keeping them moist throughout germination. The Winter Sowing Method is better because the seeds are protected in their mini-greenhouses. When you direct sow in the ground the seeds are at the mercy of Mother Nature....they can get washed out in downpours, be eaten by critters and bug and birds, desiccate in the wind, or can rot in the soil. In a WS mini-greenhouse the seeds are in a protected environment. They get the same weather as the seeds in the ground...same temperatures, and the little slits in the lids allow both rain and melting snows to keep the soil moist and the flats watered. But they areprotected so more of the seeds will survive to germinate in Spring. The germination counts are generally astonishingly high. *My reasoning is that, if the seeds had dropped from a parent plant already in the garden, that successful germination is just as likely from "semi-natural" re-seeding as it would be if I used the recommended winter sowing method suggested in the FAQ's.* Plants which reseed in temperate climates are those recommended for Winter Sowing. *I guess to me it just seems like the recommended method over complicates the process and just adds more work, after I've spent the growing season pruning, deadheading, weeding, mulching, topdressing etc.* Just sow the flat and stash it outside on the picnic table or wherever your dog won't grab it or your snowblower won't hit it. *Again those are just my thoughts on the winter sowing process and in now way am I trying to gainsay the method recommended by others.* Don't worry about it, WS is very incredulous when you hear about it--you like to direct seed in your garden. I do both. I have a veggie garden and direct sow many of my leafy greens. Many posters do any or all of WS, DS or GUL. *I just have a terrible time trying to start seed indoors, and so I've amassed, what I consider a ALOT of seed packets, that are waiting to be planted but due to my iffy results starting seeds indoors "6 weeks before the last frost", which here in central OH could be as late as the end of April.* You've come to the right forum. Winter Sowing removes a lot of the frustration that comes with indoor germination, it's a big relief and gives you a gazillion seedlings. Nice plant list, it can all be WSed. Your yard will be a butterfly party. T PS, Did anyone tell you that Winter Sowing can be addicting?

This explains pruning groups. It was in the FAQ's : How do I prune my Clematis? Group 1, 2, 3s or A, B, Cs Pruning suggestions: Clematis fall into three basic 'pruning groups'. The 'prune groups' are a separate classification of clematis in the 'family' groups (such as 'the Montana group') which take into account the parentage of the specific cultivar or the 'type' groups (such as 'the Evergreens') which take into account some specific attribute of the plants. There is, however, a connection between 'family' or 'type' groups and pruning groups, as almost all members of a specific family group or type group would fall into the same prune group. For more information on Clematis types and groups, please see the FAQ titled 'Clematis types'. These pruning suggestions are for established vines that have been in the ground for at least three years. Young vines should all be pruned to 12 inches the second spring and to 18 inches the third spring. It helps to develop more shoots, a fuller vine, and a better root system. Group 1 - Certain species clematis and their cultivars which bloom early in the year. Some of the more commonly found representatives of this group include the Montanas, which are extremely vigourous in USDA zones 5 and warmer. Other clematis in Group 1, which are becoming more commonly available, are varieties of C. alpina and C. macropetala. These clematis will also develop into very large specimen plants over time. Another example in Group 1 is C. armandii and its cultivars. All of the Group 1 clematis bloom on growth made the previous year. They can be pruned to keep them within their alotted space, or to remove dead and unsightly foliage. Note however, if they are pruned late in the season, or before they flower in the year, you will be cutting off potential flower buds. They should be pruned right after flowering, if at all. Group 2 - These are the large flowered hybrids. They are often divided again into two subgroups - 2a and 2b. The main difference between the two subgroups is: those in 2a normally bloom in the spring and possibly again in the fall; those in 2b bloom mainly in the spring then intermittently all through the summer. Subgroup 2b types usually continue to grow as well as bloom as the season progresses so in the spring you might have a mass of blooms at waist height and by autumn they may be blooming overhead. The flowers of both subgroups tend to be smaller later in the season and might be more intensely or differently colored as well. All of the clematis in Group 2 bloom on 'old wood' (actually on short shoots from old wood) and should not be pruned except for deadwood pruning in early spring after the leaf buds open slightly. Note that those in subgroup 2b also bloom on new wood (see information below about alternate pruning for special puposes). The number of later flowers can be increased if the seed heads from the first flowering are removed right after the blooms drop their tepals. Group 3 - These are the summer blooming varieties such as the viticellas, Jackmanii types, texensis, the herbaceous species such as integrifolia and recta that bloom on new wood and the late bloomers such as Sweet Autumn Clematis (C. terniflora) and orientalis types. Clematis in Group 3 mainly flower on new wood produced in the current year and should be pruned back severely every year in late winter, when they are completely dormant, to about 12 - 14 inches. Leave at least two pairs of buds (4) on each stem of the plant. Most Group 3s are very fast growing and will reach their full height before blooming every summer. If you fail to prune these, they will develop long 'legs' that get woody and will be devoid of foliage and blooms. It should be noted that with Group 2s and Group 3s you can vary both flowering height and flowering time by adjusting your pruning strategy. Since the above guidelines are based on gereral principles, once the principles are understood, you can alter your pruning to suit your needs. Say, for example you have a Jackmanii type which you want to flower around a second story window. Pruning it down to 12-14 inches each year will mean that it can never reach the heights you intend. Instead, knowing that it will grow approximately 10-12 feet each year, you can prune it back to a point which will allow it to flower at the height you need. Also, if you are growing Group 3 types into a shrub or a tree, it is best to only prune them down to a branch that gives them an early start next spring. You would not want to prune them to 12 inches and put them into a very shady situation next spring. It will stunt them. See 'Decorative Pruning' FAQ for more information. You can also control flowering time by either pruning later so that flowers are produced later, or not pruning some of the vines so that you may get flowers earlier. By pruning those in Group 2b as if they were Group 3 type plants, you can get a bigger display of flowers later in the year. Clematis are quite resilient plants, and you are unlikely to kill your plant by pruning it wrong. The worst damage that is likely to happen by incorrect or untimely pruning would be the loss of flowers for one year. Clematis have not been told these pruning "rules" and have done very well without pruning shears for thousands of years. It is a good idea to make a note and keep track of the name of any clematis you have or may buy so you can find out which pruning group it belongs to. The tag will usually tell you to either 'prune hard' or 'prune lightly'. This refers to the pruning group without confusing folks by indicating a group number. You may also see clematis listed as Group or Type A, B, or C. These letters correspond to Group 1, 2, and 3, respectively, as given above. There are many hints and tips for keeping track of the pruning requirements of the clematis in your garden. One idea would be to mark each clematis with one of three different colored stakes or twine to indicate which prune group it is in. Entered by shannan FAQ Page GardenWeb Home Page : Forums : Forum Copyright The Virtual Mirror

there is a plant propogation book i have wherein the author describes his own mist system. that author has a large black coil of hose in the roof of his greenhouse so that water can be heated before reaching the mist nozzles. that's at least one vote for using warm water and keeping the cuttings reasonably warm as they root. just thought i would toss that in! lol. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mosaic z8 LA (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 11:59 With such a setup you could probably root roses under mist all winter here in Louisiana. And then as an added bonus, you could save on your power bills all summer by using it to steam your veggies :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: tammyinwv z6/WV (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:05 i have been unable to find the mist heads even within an hr from my home.Someone mentioned here they found them for .50 each.would anyone be willing to get me a couple and mail them? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: wild_garden virginia z6b (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:32 at my lowes store the mist heads where in the indoor gardening area next to the register, i doubt the people at lowes would have even know what to look for. it was with the drip irrigation supplies, as i said in the indoor gardening area next to the big outdoor area where they sell trees and things. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mist heads supply source Posted by: RoseHawke 7b AL (My Page) on Mon, May 12, 03 at 10:37 For you folks that haven't been able to find the heads locally, try going to this site: Dripworks or here's a direct link to one of the pages with some heads:Misters . I just a couple of weeks ago ordered some irrigation supplies from them and received them quite quickly. About 4 days if I remember correctly. Haven't had a chance to put it together yet, which is probably just as well as the flood we had last week would've probably washed everything down the creek ;-). I also have the Melnor timer, and it does seem a bit confusing about its ability to do a mist cycle, but what you're doing is programing it to do one cycle (on in the am; off in the pm) and punching in a choice of watering pattern, in this case the off for 10" on for 2" pattern. I believe the idea behind the pattern was/is actually to help prevent water run-off when doing overhead watering by allowing the water to soak in between the on phases. I bought this particular timer though because when I looked at it my mind said "Ah! Mist!" (heh), even though the reason I bought it at the time was to keep a new patch of zoysia sod watered until it rooted in. My batteries did last all season last year, but it was only opening that valve 4x a day for 3 weeks, and then 1x every 4 days for a couple of months. I can see where a misting pattern of opening and closing that valve many times during the day may eat batteries, but as ShamanSherpa pointed out, it's still cheaper than a $100+ misting timer! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: patclem z7 (or 6) TN (My Page) on Fri, May 23, 03 at 8:32 Regardless of how much water it wastes, etc, I decided to experiment with misting. I am TERRIBLE at rooting cuttings. I've tried baggies. I've tried jars. I've tried special cutting trays with plastic domes. I've had one rooted cutting out of probably 50. I had the same problem finding true super-fine mist systems in the south. None at Lowe's, none at HD. They're not popular here because they don't have the same evaporating effect they have in less humid areas of the country - they make you wet here. Here's where I found mist heads. They didn't charge me anything for shipping. They were super-good to deal with online. Web Page - Phone/Fax 888-693-0578 Local/Fax (719) 495-2266 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W401; Product: Monarch Misting Nozzles M-1; Amount: $7.40 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W519; Product: Reducing Tee for Monarch Misting Nozzles; Amount: $4.40 You have to go to Lowe's or local hardware store and get a hose adapter, timers, 1/2" PVC, PVC caps, etc. I have mine set up with 2 mist heads, and about a 6' diameter section of my grass is soaked! I don't have mine on a timer yet. Results? I don't have any yet, except none of my cuttings have turned black yet. PS - I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH THIS BUSINESS IN ANY WAY! Here is a link that might be useful: Mist Heads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: fuselighter 7/WA (My Page) on Thu, May 29, 03 at 21:41 I am so excited about the misting bed. I went out and bought all the supplies today. Total cost was about $15 (my husband had PVC and elbows left over from installing the sprinkler system). I would like to go to an intermittent system eventually, but for now I am going with continuous. The water bill is not an issue because we have an irrigation system (there is an annual fee but it is not based on usage). I set the whole thing up in about an hour. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: debbinard Z4CO (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 10:54 Shamansherpa -- I could not open your picture! I live in Colorado, it gets very warm middle of June (up to upper 90's) and stays low humidity. We are on outsidewater restrictions 2xweek, so I'm not sure this method would fly. Am wondering how visible this is, or if inside is an option under lights. At any rate, I would like to propigate some rose cuttings now (is this a good time?) My daughter in law is moving and would love some plants from a rose with sentimental value. Is the rooting hormone used just the usual or special for roses? Thanks Deb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 13:48 Deb, Maybe you could call your water extention office and see if you can get special permission, exsplain to them how little water it uses. Yes you use rooting hormone, there are many available. Dip and grow I here is supposed to be really good. I got some of the more exspensive stuff from a friend whom bought it threw rose imporium on line. But you can always use something like dip and grow. Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: rose_enthusiast z7 TX. (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 15:47 Hi there Deanna! It seems to me you've managed to help a lot of people with your invaluable info. And I would like to thank you for inspiring me to start a misting bed to root my cuttings. I have one question to add to the many others you've been getting though... What rose company is it that you get your rooting hormone from? Is it Rose Emporium or the Antique Rose Emporium? I would like to purchase this product as well, since you and this company are using this to successfully root your cuttings. Thanks Again, Carlos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 1:31 Carlos, Thank you but we should all thank AngieAnders, she is the one who did all the research and work to discover this method and then post it here for us last year! She truly diserves all the credit. I just wanted to keep any new people aware that have just started rooting this year. Best of luck all and don't forget to post your sucess! Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: epiphany z5b PA (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 9:28 I found the Arizona Mist system which is by Orbit as mentioned at Wal-Mart. It has 12' of tubing, end cap, six misting heads and hose adapter for $14.95. Of course, it is once again cold and wet here,......all of a balmy 56°. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: auntnana 6 TN (My Page) on Thu, Jun 5, 03 at 13:06 I ordered the misting heads mentioned above from Dripworks last year and they don't put out a fine mist as much as they do a fine spray/droplets. And even though I had a pressure regulator on there, I kept having a problem with the heads blowing off! (Their drippers work perfectly by the way so it's nothing against the company) I ordered foggers from Misty Mate this year and they put out a super fine fog. Perfect for propagation. They are a litte more expensive than the ones from Dripworks but worth it. And if you ask they will ship the misting heads for $1.50. I went to HD and bought a 10-24 tap and drill set (3.00) and drilled holes in my 1/2" cvpvc and the heads just screwed right in! I bought a Melnor timer at HD for $39 and it has 1 minute spray options so I've got it set for 1 minute every 10 minutes. Can't remember the model number but it's not the one on the HD website. I hope to finish my new propagation box soon. I built one on a stand this year so I can move it around easily. Wouldn't you know, HD has plastic sheeting made just for greenhouses that I used! It's not the real thick heavy stuff either. It's only 4mil and is crystal clear see-thru! Hopefully I'll be finished this week!

Thanks for that, Digit! I will now be posting pics again—even if they only look like ugly links! I have SO many things blooming in my yard already I’ve been WANTING to post some pics! But have more I need to download/upload (never have figured out which is which!) into the computer first—that I hadn’t bothered since I “couldn’t” post them anyway! Will do it in the next couple days! I don’t have a google+ page! And I don’t intend to ever have one! If I sign up for google+ my WebAlbums will be TOTALLY messed up—as I discovered when I tried to help somebody, last fall, try to figure out how to use Picasa and WebAlbums! It’s a total mess in WebAlbums in “+”, and as near as I can tell, once you sign up for it it’s TOO LATE, and the “new and improved” version (NOT!) is all you have access to anymore. As a matter of fact, if some of your pics really did “disappear,” I wonder if that had something to do with it! I haven’t “updated” Picasa for a couple years either (I just keep telling it NO when it pleads with me to update it!) ‘cause I’m afraid that’ll somehow get me into the google+ version—and I won’t be able to opt out of it again! I REALLY don’t understand why these companies keep trying to “improve” something that’s already working really, really well! (google maps REALLY screwed up their “maps” too, IMO! But I still have a link to Olde Google Maps—that still works! If they ever discontinue the olde maps, I don’t have a CLUE what I’ll use for maps! Bing, IMO, is at least as bad as the “new” google maps! HELLO out there! STOP “fixing” things that don’t need fixing!!!) (And my avatar on FB, which I haven’t signed into for a year!, is an airplane! And that’s the only place I have an avatar at all!!!) I don’t know why you didn’t “need to” change your setting to “enable” PMing, but maybe that’s something else they’ve changed recently—like putting in the ability to enter your zone (tho I’m gonna leave mine in as my “last name!”) When I went to that page I had to change the settings to get them right to enable PMing. Maybe now it’s the default when GW folks get into the houzz site. But there is SOMETHING that needs to be “fixed” for David, because there’s no “message box” visible on His Page, and until that’s there, nobody can PM him. I’m sure it’ll all get straightened out! We are, gradually, getting back to “our old GW!” Never would have believed that when I showed up here the first day and went—SAY WHAT????? I’m really impressed with the admins and all they’ve done! As for me! Maybe I’ll take some more pics tomorrow! Skybird