Wow! It does sound like elder abuse at its worst. And if she has already turned over some financial control to Jim, she needs to be made aware of what he is doing as soon as possible. I agree with what maddielee said. If there is some agency you can report this to, I would do that. Make sure you have any documented proof.

You could inform her yourself if you are in a position to do so and encourage her to obtain legal advice from a trusted attorney. She needs to protect her assets and also to find someone trusted to take on her care. Perhaps you can assist with that as well.

You probably thought of this, but I would not want to give anyone who's acting sketchy to have a heads up on what you are doing, since it might cause them to try to get what they can while the getting's good. If you mention it to your friend, she may say something.

And bless you for being a good friend.

Does Nelly have a lawyer you might talk to? The one who wrote up this agreement?

Thanks, everyone.

Does Nelly have a lawyer you might talk to?

That's the problem. Yes, she does, and I'm actually going to stay there to take care of her for a couple of days next week, but I'm pretty sure Nelly won't remember the current lawyer's name. She was living in another state when the initial paperwork was done and only saw the local lawyer once, several years ago. Jim keeps all the paperwork locked up in his room.

ETA I could and, in this situation, would break into the room, but there's a combination lock on the file box.

What a difficult situation and what a good friend you are to look out for Nelly and her interests. Would Paola have information and be willing to share it to help you help Nelly?

That's the problem. Yes, she does, and I'm actually going to stay there to take care of her for a couple of days next week, but I'm pretty sure Nelly won't remember the current lawyer's name. She was living in another state when the initial paperwork was done and only saw the local lawyer once, several years ago. Jim keeps all the paperwork locked up in his room.

Oh my stars.

Would Paolo know? Could you maybe say something to him along the lines of, "With Jim's changes in plans, and him being so busy right now, I'd just like to make sure Nelly's lawyer -- can you remember her name by the way -- has his updated contacts" ?

Is this NY State?

Good luck, writersblock. You are such a good friend.

Thanks, rubyclaire and becksharp.

Is this NY State?

No, it's Florida.

As suggested, Adult Protective Services in her state. Since it is HER house and you will be there with her, if she agrees to it, break into the locked cabinet. All you have to do is call a locksmith and tell them she misplaced the combination for the lock. That will be a good starting point. She can then rescind the POA that he might be using at her bank to stop any more flow of money. You can also request copies of her bank statements for her. If she is able to call them, she can request them herself. A POA does NOT exclude her from acting on her own behalf unless she's been declared incompetent by a court or her doctors.

Any new POA and probably the rescission would have to be notarized. If she is not able to travel to a notary, there are mobile services. A new person with a POA could then visit an attorney on her behalf.

I'm glad she has you to help her.

I had some good friends who had to step in and take care of an elderly neighbor. It can be done, and can be done out of the goodness of your heart, but it is no easy task. It is possible that Jim may end up paying some other people to take care of Nelly. That may or may not work out. I had a friend who looked after a wealthy elderly woman with Alzheimer's disease. Her stepson was in charge of her care, he made sure she was not being abused, but it was rough at the end as far as her health and behavior. He didn't visit much but she didn't know him anyway. Quite a few people looked in on the woman to make sure her best interests were being followed. So good on you for doing that. The caregivers did the best they could in a difficult situation for everyone, including the patient whom everyone loved but hated to see deteriorate so badly. She ended up with a bunch of strokes . . . This same kind of thing happens in nursing homes too, so difficult to make sure an elderly person gets the best care . . . so many variables . . .

Worst case scenario is that Jim has decided to abscond with a chunk of Nelly's cash before she dies. Still might not be the end of the world, as long as there is enough of her money to go to her charities as her will describes and also pay for her care through to the end. But lots of opportunities for trouble. BTW, if anyone wonders why I still put up with my curmudgeon of a dad, it is to protect him from just this kind of abuse, to see to it that his wishes and best interests are carried out til the bitter end . . . even if mine aren't!!

https://www.myflfamilies.com/service-programs/adult-protective-services/

I am so glad you are helping her. As others point out, it’s her house. I would have someone break into that room in a heartbeat, and that cabinet. Hopefully before he further cleans her out.

Is there an emergency order you can help invoke in this type of circumstance? For instance, something to keep him away/off her premises?

You might find this interesting reading...just an fyi that there's a game out there and to trust with caution.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/court-appointed-guardian-system-failing-elderly_n_59d3f70be4b06226e3f44d4e

Writer, I have nothing to add of help but do want to say that Nelly is one lucky woman to have you as a friend.

Thank you, Olychick, l pinkmountain, beckysharp, OutsidePlaying, pennydesign, and justterrilynn . I see I wasn't clear: I don't think he's using her money yet, but I do think that when he runs out of his own the temptation will be very strong. So it's a bit premature for anything lik Protective Services, since it hasn't quite happened yet. Anyway, I'm fairly sure that having the cops break the front door down would be as bad for her as having her money ooze away.

Pennydesign, I hadn't read that particular article, but I had the one in the New Yorker and made her read it, too, because for a while she was amusing herself by pretending to be gaga when visitors came. She snapped right out of it after that. Unfortunately, there's no question that guardians in FL tend to be pretty lackluster at best.

What I would encourage her to do:

1. Check bank, investment, insurance, credit card accounts, etc. to confirm that no fraud has occurred. If it has, things will be more complicated.
2. Find attorney to rescind current POA and draft new one with limited powers to protect her immediate interests. (For example, DH and I have full POA for each other and explicitly waived our state's statutory limits that restrict attorney-in-fact's gifts to self and others. The powers for our secondaries are not as broad.) She will need to do another one after she has had time to consider what to do.
3. Notify bank, etc. that there has been a change. If Jim is a joint owner, signer or beneficiary on any of the accounts, remove him.
4. Determine whether Paolo and the cousin are interested in continuing to provide care and whether she wants them to do so.
5. Longer term, an attorney will need to look at the contract she has with Jim to understand her obligations now that he has decided to leave before her death. Let's hope the original attorney thought of that possibility and addressed it. She may need to revise beneficiaries and change her will.

Bank personnel are trained to spot elder financial abuse and have systems in place for handling this very situation. Can you get her to the bank ASAP to talk to someone and to get Jim off the account? If fraud is suspected, I don’t think you need an attorney as a first step. Also, the bank might steer you to an attorney and advise you/Nellie on next steps. Does Jim have on line banking for her account? If not, perhaps you can set up an on line banking account and check the history. At least that might give you some piece of mind. you are such a good friend.

ETA I could and, in this situation, would break into the room, but there's a combination lock on the file box.

This, along with other things, is concerning. She definitely needs to stay hands on with her accounts as long as she is able. To not know a thing is not good. Like you said, when he runs out of his money, he most likely will start using hers. Like someone above said, it is her house, her room, her money... so cut the lock. It's not hard. If he isn't around/isn't going to be around, he is no longer looking out for her best interest. Better to remove his POA now before he can declare her incompetent.

I second the notion to cut the lock, and will add that you should document by videoing the act with your phone, and include a short cut of Nelly stating her name, address, DOB, etc., your name, the date, location and that she gives her express permission for you to undertake whatever needs to be done to access her personal info. Then make a copy of the file, put it on a flash drive and put it in your safety deposit box or other place that only you have access to, and make a copy for Nelly to keep in the new safe.

You are being a good friend, writersblock, but this is a delicate situation, so make sure you are fully transparent and document your actions fully (CYA is not selfish, in this instance, I see it as necessary).

I would keep an eye out on the situation but it is possible that "Jim" is just going to appoint someone else to be the person on the spot with the care and manage from afar. That's what happened in the case with my friend who was caring for an elderly woman. Now I recall it was her nephew managing her estate and he appointed a head nurse to manage her round the clock care. He did not visit much but she was totally out of it. Depends on how trustworthy Jim is . . .

Edited to add that you might start by asking Jim what's up, if you have that kind of relationship with him. Share your concerns. That will put him on notice that you are watching.

What would happen if Nelly asked Jim for the info in the locked box? You say Nelly is clear minded, why doesn't she also have a key to this box?

I think the concern here is that major changes in Jim's behavior are calling his trustworthiness into question. Nelly is still intellectually intact, so a responsible person would have discussed the upcoming changes with her and worked with her to get a new care plan in place.

Oh, I forgot to mention online accounts that have financial consequences. Even if Nelly didn't set up or use them, Jim might have. Those should be found and fixed so that Jim can't just setup a new password via "forgot password" or password reset functions.

Thanks, Moxie, Honu, allison, lakeaffect, and l pink.

It's rather complicated because Nelly has never been very hands on with her money. She was an artist and a scholar and she used to just let her money guy do what he wanted. As long as she had income, she didn't care.

When Jim took over he looked at the situation and felt that things were not being well managed so she was happy to have him take over all that, and he was able to switch things around so her income increased. Any really major changes, like when to divest her enormous block of stock in the company her first husband worked for, were discussed with her at length, but otherwise she just didn't bother.

I'm pretty sure she never read a bank statement in her life. When I've been there and things like pension or investment statements come in, she wants no part of them. And Jim has been very proactive on her behalf so far. So the bank would be amazed and dubious if anyone tried to suggest things need investigating. Until very recently, I would have been myself.

There's always the possibility that Jim went to Nelly to ask her if he could use some of the money that was going to be his, she would probably have said "Yes" and both of them kept quiet about it.

I may have made incorrect assumptions. I should have started with questions. Is Nelly concerned about the changes in Jim's behavior? Have she and Jim discussed how his relocation will affect her financial and physical care? Is there reason to think that Jim is using drugs? That can get expensive fast and override one's normally ethical behavior.

As long as Nelly is mentally competent - and one has to be in really bad shape to be declared otherwise - she has the right to make her own choices through action or inaction. If she is not concerned, there's not much to be done other than pointing out the risks to her well-being if she doesn't become more engaged. She might not care initially if Jim starts spending her money, but she would not be happy if he spent enough to change her from an old lady with a very comfortable income to one who has to watch every penny.

It seems you have a strong “feeling” something is beginning to not seem right and I personally trust your judgement . It’s good you are carefully bouncing those feelings around here for advice because you are in a tough spot. There is nothing more horrendous than those who take advantage of the elderly or children. However, we don’t know if Jim is there. We don’t know if he’s one of them.

I’m wondering (maybe a bad idea) but could you somehow carefully convey your concerns to Jim directly ? Could that nip anything in the bud ? Or, could it possibly backfire on YOU. Maybe a meeting with you , Jim and Nelly?

Worrisome dilemma.

What a good friend!

What a complicated and perilous situation, for your friend and you, to an extent.

You've received some good advice here.

My thought is that the original agreement signed, prepared by the attorney, will answer many questions. Again, if it was not done correctly to protect his client ("Nelly") it may present more questions.

The agreement should have many safeguards; one being a bank under the auspices of the FDIC and banking regulations (vs. credit unions, etc. which are regulated but a bit differently) should have a trust officer assigned to review expenses, etc. and look out for the client's assets, I would think. I worked with trust officers in the past and they were very protective of their clients-- particularly older customers with and without family, but with significant assets. They even did "wellness checks" on clients; I accompanied them.

I'd see about procuring a copy of the agreement, perhaps with Nelly's approval take it to another elder care attorney, also perhaps in conjunction with Florida elder care department if need be, and make sure that her agreement still insures her care even if it involves changes or someone else brought in to oversee that her "caretaker" acts within the bounds of the agreement as proscribed, and financially responsible with accurate accounting to a trust officer. An estate attorney can serve the same function. The key element is getting a third or even fourth party into the equation and hopefully someone who will see about her--apparently no longer Jim.

Getting old is difficult enough without someone abandoning you and taking advantage of you.

This wasn't a good idea to begin with, in my opinion--a tale of caution.

People change.

Good luck.

I actually know some people who take care of elderly people at home and they are well paid and they do it ethically. However, conditions can change, no matter what, whether it is Nelly's health, mind, or Jim's. Even under the best of circumstances. A team approach, if the team can agree, is often good practice to spread the risk. Sadly, I mostly see folks bicker about how best to care for the aged. Some friends of mine stepped in to care for an elderly neighbor who could no longer live alone. They sold her house and used the money to pay for nursing home care for her. The neighbors accused them of terrible things. However, none of those neighbors visited the woman once she was gone, and my friends looked in after her every week until she died and celebrated holidays with her, etc. But she hated it there, at least at first, but as things got worse I think she was glad she was not alone. However, due to her finances and not being eligible for round the clock care at home, a nursing home was the only option. My friends were in the nursing care business so they checked out all the particulars to see that the place was run well. My other nurse friend who cared for the woman with Alzheimers was part of a team that was paid to manage her care at home with one coordinator. Some of the staff was better than others. At some point she needed three people there for her safety as she often would engage in actions harmful to her person. So there you go, it's a sticky wicket no matter how you slice it.

Thanks again, everyone! For the moment the crisis is postponed because Paolo and the cousin are still going to be part of her care.

I pink, that is so true. One of my neighbors has a mother in memory care and as the management and staff change, the quality of the care varies radically in the same facility. My neighbor spends a couple of hours with her mom every day, but I don't like to think about what it must be like for those with nobody who cares to keep an eye on them.

And people manage to get themselves into trouble in all sorts of ways. A friend of my mom's fell into a common trap. She wrote a. letter to the editor of the local paper and then received a letter from a man praising her judgement on the subject in question. The pen pal thing went on for a while and then she found out he was in prison for manslaughter.

Writing letters to old ladies is a common "touch" tried by criminals with no other outlet for chicanery at the moment, but she fell for it hook, line, and sinker. At the time her husband was still alive and just shrugged and said, "If it makes her happy…" After his death she became more and more involved with this creep and spent a lot of money get him parolled. He was 30 and she was 80-something, but she planned to marry him, until the day when she managed to get him released and was there at the prison gate waiting for him, but so were police from many other jurisdictions and he went away in cuffs instead of with her. It finished her and she died not long after that.