I know you are right about the wisdom of this group and they will have good advice. I’m glad L has you advocating for her.

While we wait for the experts to check in, I can't help but think this young woman would be a perfect candidate for a Go Fund Me.

CSU is a public university, is she a resident of CO? If not, that may be the reason for the paltry aid package, public university's have a responsibility to the taxpayers of their state, and the best packages go to residents.

Also, a quick check shows CSU's academic 2019-20, full time, matriculated student (15 credits) tuition is $15k+- per semester for non-residents and $6k+- for CO residents, are they including living costs in the cost estimate of $40k?

She applied as an out of state student

Not a financial aid guru, but like lakeaffect, I wonder if she is subject to out-of-state tuiion which typically is full cost of instruction as opposed to tax-payer subsidized for residents. I come from a state with a strong 2+2 system between community colleges and universities. It might be worth exploring community colleges in Colorado if she wants to move there and establish residency or finish community college and her associate degree in her home state. I'm making assumptions here but she may want to serioulsly consider staying in community college until she can transfer with a degree as it will certainly be more cost effective. She is very fortunate to have your encouragement Bestyears!

ETA: cross-posted with you Bestyears.

It's such an inspiring story. I hope the ending works out better!

Very few people should borrow 40k a year for their education. And certainly not someone who plans to teach about wildlife. Gofundme, or not, it is foolish.

My first thought is to contact that dean. If he was sincere, perhaps he can help.

Failing that, one has to realize that going to the college of one's choice is a luxury good many cannot afford. You mentioned she took a trip "out there," so clearly is not a resident. She needs to consider an in-state U. Maybe she can go to her dream school for a PhD or somesuch, under scholarship after having proven herself as an undergrad?

Frankly I don't disagree with her about debt, in this circumstance.

Honestly, bestyears, I get that she may be all in for CSU, but the financial reality is that she should get her BS from her home state, then look to CSU for grad school, or move to CO and work for a year (or whatever the term is) and establish residency and reapply when she's a resident and can qualify for resident status. TBH, 20 credits isn't a lot, many students carry 18 in a semester, and by moving to CO just to attend college, she will likely not achieve residency status, so will have the larger tuition bill every year of her undergraduate studies, which will likely be 3 years plus.

This situation this young woman is in perfectly illustrates why I support tax payer funded college tuition in full for everyone, even though my taxes may go up. I cannot imagine a better use of tax money than funding than funding learning and education for all.

I've been wondering if her OOS status limited her ability to get grants, but haven't been able to find any definitive info. She was advised by more than one program to not earn more than about 20 credits before applying as a transfer student (because it impairs your chance of being accepted). Since she's been working pretty much fulltime, because she's paid for all of her school herself, it's been slow going. She's worked for example, two fulltime jobs one semester, and not taken classes, and then given up one of the fulltime jobs and taken two courses the following semester, that kind of thing. I don't know enough about the field, but apparently, their is something specific about the way CSU's program addresses sustainabiity that has her so excited about this program. She would be a first-generation college student in her family, and I think the idea of grad school feels a bit like flying to the moon, so she is putting everything into undergrad.

if Her heart is really set on CSU, I would recommend deferring her start date for a year and move to CO now to establish residency. Maybe she could consider applying to need-blind schools that WILL offer scholarships (not loans) for accepted students. Harvard comes to mind.

Her backup plan was to move there, establish residency, and have an overall lower cost of attendance. But..... it appears that she cannot defer her acceptance and simultaneously earn in-state status. So she would have to move there and reapply. That feels very risky to me.

I worked in higher ed for 12 years (albeit not in admissions), and I have never heard any advice about 20 or less credits, many people complete an associates (typically 60 credits) degree at a community college, then apply to a 4 year institution for their bachelor's degree. At the private, research university I worked at, we much preferred transfers to have an associates degree, especially if the student's HS work wasn't enough to merit acceptance right after HS, the A.S. degree "permitted" the institution to consider college only, and dismiss the HS grades.

You know, I may have that number wrong (20 credits -maybe the number is 30?). But UT was quite adament about staying below the number in order to improve her chances of acceptance. It was over a year ago that I had that particular conversation with her, and I recall it because I had never heard that advice before, but it's entirely possible I have the number wrong.

I don't usually comment on things here, but happened to see this one and have recently been through this with my kids. Check out other state schools in Colorado. Some are part of the Western Undergraduate Exchange that offers reduced tuition for residents of some of the other Western states (if she is from one of them - couldn't tell from your post). I know that Boulder, for instance is not part of it, but several other state schools in Colorado are. I wish I had known about the program sooner! Good luck.

Thanks Emily. The resident state is TX, which unfortunately is not part of the Western States thing.

Thank you Rita for sharing all of that. Lots of food for thought there. I’m going to parse through your post tonight when I get home.

Of course I don’t know any specifics about Colorado; however I’ve worked in higher ed in Missouri for 35 years.

Ditto on the advice to finish a 2-year degree at a community college. In Missouri that’s about 62 credit hours, about 40 of which are required for the degree with the rest being electives. Missouri has articulation agreements which guarantee full transfer of the 2-year degree to 4-year public universities in this state. The earning of an associate in arts degree (a 2-year degree) is seen as evidence of an individual’s true commitment to their education.

Other random thoughts: out-of-state tuition rates are vastly higher than in-state resident rates. Private universities sometimes offer many many more scholarships than public universities. And it’s pretty late in the season to be looking for scholarships for the fall 2019 semester.

Thank you for your support for this young lady, bestyears.

Being a furriner, and of advanced years, I don't have many suggestions to offer.

I usually hang out at "The Kitchen Table" on "Home Forum" and when I went there today found a discussion on "Hot Topics" and yours, labelled "Home Decorating Conversations".

Sometimes they suggest that we may want to post a thread on several topics, so I don't know whether that is what is going on here, but usually when they do, the titles of each topic shows.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that I think that our story might get some interesting responses over on "The Kitchen Table".

ole joyful

What about a private college?

If not, she needs to get herself employed by CSU before attempting an education there. I know it's a long shot, however. But my daughter did it for her masters, and then moved and got a job at a small school in California. She's taking another class there, also.

Honestly, higher education is a luxury.

SFA used to have a good wildlife program. Perhaps she could pursue the sustainability as a graduate program at CSU, as others have suggested.

I think a piece of advice offered to undergraduate students generally might be good to consider. For many students, especially those who may go on to do graduate work, the best plan is to plan is to spend 4 years in-state for the undergrad degree -- most amount of time spent where the cost is lowest. The look out of state for grad degree programs. You start off with only 2 years, often more flexibility for working and more options for getting paid to teach undergrads, work o campus i research or get other financial aid. That is the path my younger son took and he expects that he will have fully paid opportunities in grad school. My older son went out of state but with us only going out of pocket for living expenses, so that wasn't an issue. He got his masters at another school that offered zero aid for undergrads but he had most of his grad tuition paid.

I don't remember what part of TX you are in bestyears, but I have some ties to Lone Star College which covers most of the area north of Houston. Each campus has different areas of study, so they cover a huge range. So many of these students transfer to 4 year universities (SHSU, UH, UT, A&M and others) -- they even have 4 year programs that can be completed locally or mostly locally in some areas of study. They also have a good financial aid and student support system because students like your friend are not at all unusual there. The tuition is higher for students who are out of district, but she could work at it slowly or establish residency. Let me know if that might be an option she'd want to look into further.

Please click over to collegeconfidential.com I would start with the parents forum. Those people have lots of knowledge and are very helpful. Out of state colleges charge about 20K more vs in state (tax dollars at work). Good luck to her. You are a nice friend.

I admire the young woman for getting this far especially considering what she has had to deal with. She needs to be realistic- this isn't the time to get into debt.

Stay in state and make the best of the situation. Are there any colleges near her where she can commute? I honestly do not have much sympathy for students who go off to college and then complain about being $100,000 + in debt. I lived at home and commuted to the U. of Pittsburgh and worked 25 hours a week in a supermarket for 5 years - right up until I finished my graduate degree. DH lived on his college campus but had a part time job and tutored other students in bio and chem.

You've received some valuable advice here from those much more knowledgeable than I am. I do hope things work out for her, she certainly sounds like a dedicated woman.

Thank you all so much. I'm in the midst of a week-long writing seminar here at a local university, and it's kicking my butt, so I'm a little brain dead tonight, but I did want to give a quick update, even before I've had the chance to digest all the great input here.

L. called me this afternoon sounding surprisingly strong. She told me she'd woken up this morning and had a little chat with herself about not falling apart. One thing about people who've had a rotten start in life is that they've picked up a lot of resilience along the way. She called Financial Aid and spoke to a senior counselor who told her that the "____ Transfer Student Scholarship" had not yet been awarded, and so that remains a possibility, though probably a long shot in L's opinion. He also told her that she could most likely establish herself as an in-state student after her first year, which is contrary to everything we've read, so needs to be verified, but may provide some hope. I talked to her about reaching out to the Dean she connected with. I had thought of that earlier, but was reluctant because I'm already feeling remorseful that I may have made her feel too hopeful about this entire thing, and she's now paying a terrible price for that. But when Mtn echoed that idea, I went ahead and passed it on, and I think L. is going to follow up on it.

I've spent the past five years teaching GED courses at a local community college, though L was not ever my student, and I don't know her through that work. It is difficult to express how little these students believe they deserve. Often, they have parents who have made them feel this way, and it's been reinforced in the K-12 classrooms. As lascatx said, students like this are not that uncommon here, or maybe anywhere. I don't think most of us understand how desperately difficult every single step is for these students. Not only do they not have financial resources. Just as significantly, they don't know how the system works and they make a lot of mistakes along the way because of that. There is a bit of a myth I think, especially among middle-class families like mine, that truly needy students can easily get what they need, and it just isn't so. Just very frustrating....

Another thing to think about: going to work for a company that will pay for school.

Are there any companies in your area that will do this? My company did tuition reimbursement toward degrees in English, math, economics, and accounting for any employee. It also paid for courses toward more specialized degrees directly related to the employee's area of employment.

If L has basic office skills it will be worth it to her to look into companies that offer tuition reimbursement as a benefit, both in your state and Colorado.

I suggest that your friend research loan forgiveness programs. My friend took out $75,000 in student loans to attend an expensive graduate school to become a therapist. After working five years at a non-profit agency, he was only responsible for $6000.

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service

There have been news stories about the loan forgiveness going away and lots of people having trouble with it inn the meantime. I wouldn't bet my future on that one.

And there would be tax implications.

Message me and I will see if there is anything I can do. I am doubtful but I can try.

UT Austin's program is of similar caliber and will be considerably cheaper. Additionally, UT Austin is typically considered one of the top 50 schools, so will probably open more doors than Colorado State. However, there is no admission guarantee, but I would bet there is some pathway to admission.

Finally, I am a bit reluctant to give this advice as I don't want it misused, but... if CSU is the only goal, she needs to establish residency sooner rather than later. Consider subletting a room, with a full written and signed lease, in Colorado and ask that some small bill be put in her name. Don't try to fake residency, but a month or two head start might be valuable later on.

Bry, what do you mean by "...anything I can do" in this instance? Do you have information that's not available to all who need it? Just curious.

I rarely post on this particular forum, someone alerted me to this thread.

Several years ago I started a scholarship for Appalachian kids, and it has grown so that we help a significant number of young people in Appalachia. As many people now contribute to the scholarship I am pretty constrained by the stated mission. However, some of the people who have given money have a genuine desire to help make college accessible to young people, so I can try to pass the information along.

One comment on student loans...

You should always look at the annual cash flows rather than the principal amount. Currently with the 25 year option and the 5.05% on undergraduate subsidized and unsubsidized loans the payment will be $5.8751 per $1,000 borrowed, so $100,000 in loans will about $587.51 per month in payments. If your income will improve more than that, then student loans may be worth it, and while those payments are going to be a chore up front, the inflation adjustment will probably make it more palatable as you continue.

Certainly making college more affordable is a good thing and any effort to reduce costs is a worthy effort, having said that, be cautious about reducing quality more than costs. In my opinion, having a great education that you aren't paying on the rest of your life, is better than a great education that you are paying on the rest of your life, but even that is better than a poor education even if it is free.

bry911 I pm'd you -thank you.

Interesting that I just had a recent undergraduate grad come by today to talk about grad school at CSU. In the graduate assistant package, it says that they provide tuition coverage for out of state for one year only and that graduate students MUST establish residency ASAP.

But, I agree, if she can stay in-state at UT Austin, it will be much easier because there is probably some sort of state aid she can qualify for in addition to Pell. For undergraduate, there is less emphasis on where your degree is from vs. graduate in a field like that.

Yes, there are sustainability majors/minors. Some are interdisciplinary and others are housed within geography programs or environmental science programs in Biology, or they could even be under urban planning. There are many different options for someone interested in a career in this type of area, including public health, health promotion, social work even.

When I was in graduate school back in the 90s, I paid out-of-state tuition (for a U. of California campus) my first year, but jumped through a series of hoops (CA drivers license, residence, paying utility bills--there was a list of must-dos) to establish residency. Starting in year 2 I paid in-state tuition. I had worked for a year and lived independently from my parents for a year before entering grad school.

I don't know if there's any difference between undergraduate and graduate school. I think there may be a presumption that undergraduates are still living at home when not at college. If they still "go home" for the summer, they aren't residents. Obviously, that's not the situation for L, and her age and situation (and work/tax history) is such that it should be easy to convince the university that she is independent.

This is an excerpt from a Nerdwallet article on the subject, which seems to match my experience. Of course verify with the school whether she can establish residency and qualify for in-state tuition, how long it will take, and exactly what hoops she needs to jump through.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/student-loans/in-state-tuition-establish-residency/

Residency requirements

Requirements to become a resident vary widely by state and university, which can make the process confusing. Generally, you need to establish a physical presence in the state, an intent to stay there and financial independence. Then you need to prove those things to your college or university.

• Physical presence: Most states require you to live in the state for at least a full year before establishing residency. In most cases, this means students can’t go home during summer vacation. Ways to prove this include a lease with your name on it and regular bank statements showing that you are spending money in the state.
• Intent: Students must show that they want to live in a state for reasons beyond just attending college there. Prove this with a new driver’s license, voter registration card, pay stubs, and a letter explaining your intentions to stay in that state.
• Financial independence: Students must prove some sort of financial independence. Again, this definition varies widely, but it almost always involves students filing their own taxes. Some schools won’t let students receive any support from their parents, while others allow parents to pay part of the tuition. Some universities will not grant in-state tuition to students who receive financial aid.

Some off beat ideas:

Go to Canada. Tuition for international students is about 10K.

Go to Europe: https://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/how-much-does-it-cost-study-germany about 3.5K/year. Not all states charge, though, and there are also so-called University Colleges, made up half of German and half of international students, language of instruction is English.

Or The Netherlands, University of Wageningen is ranked no 2 worldwide in environmental science --- instruction is in English mostly, tuition a bit higher than in Germany.

Look into private college: The more prestigious, the better the financial aid. Stanford/Harvard

In-state, then grad school, either in the US or abroad.