There must be a mistake with that Marvin Ultimates quote if all the quotes are for the same number and sizes of windows. When you say “3 patio doors”, do you mean 3 sliding glass patio doors? If yes, Marvin Ultimates sliding glass patio doors, 3 of them, would take up more than a third of your quote.

Thinking about it lgically now, M Miller is 100% correct.

If thats including install you are getting a good deal (well from a NJ perspective)

I have 3 separate patio doors, two of them 8 feet wide, one unit is six feet wide. Andersen has Low E4 glass with Heat lock, contemporary folding, satin nickel, and Marvin Ultimate, Bronze Exterior, folding handle in Satin Nickel, Low E1 glass. Both of them have pine interior, and it is just the material. All the quotes are for the same size and number of windows. I couldn't believe that price also, and was surprised. Is Marvin Ultimate a better window?

If that price is right get the Ultimates, no comparison. They have much less plastic junk and hardware showing on the interior side. We mixed Ultimates in the front rooms and wood Integrity in more private areas because the Ultimates were easily 2x the price. The good news is that colors and muntin patterns matched almost exactly, and since they are on different sides of the house no one can tell.

Glass spec is a little mixed up: " Andersen has Low E4 glass with Heat lock - Marvin Ultimate, Bronze Exterior, folding handle in Satin Nickel, Low E1 glass" - Two very different versions of Low E.

When you narrow them down to two or three, look closer at all the specs. Probably some other differences that have affect prices.

Isn't LowE4 from Andersen the same as Low E1 from Marvin? Marvin doesn't have E4 and I think it is the same glass, just different names.

Different formulations from different suppliers. You should be able to look at a spec sheet on the window from the two via their websites.

Where is the home (i.e. climate)? That will have everything to do with what the recommended glazing schedule is.

^^^Agree. Also know that Low-E4 glass is just a marketing gimmick for Andersen to make people think their glass is different from other brands' glass. All the major brands get their glass from Cardinal Corp. "Low-E4" is the same as Cardinal's LowE-366 glass, except it has Andersen's name on it. So Marvin, Kolbe, Pella, Jeld-wen, and all the other major brands will offer LowE-366, but it's the same as "Low-E4".

There have been a number of posts on this forum from people unhappy with their LowE-366 glass because it can show a tint. I would only use it if I lived in a super-sunny hot climate like Arizona, and even then, I might mix it with Low-E 272 on the north side of the house.

If you don't live in that sort of climate, just get the Low-E 272 glass that is standard on almost all brands. That provides plenty of solar protection, but without the risk of a tint.

ETA: Your quote for Marvin Ultimates "Low E1 glass" doesn't make sense. Standard coating on Marvin Ultimates is LowE-272. Why would you have a quote for one brand of window with a non-standard LowE-366/LowE-4 (highest solar protection), and another quote for another brand of window with non-standard LowE-180 (lowest solar protection)?

Thanks, that helps a lot! I live in Minnesota and I am looking for maximum solar gains, I have a lot of sun on the south side in winter, but summer time with overhangs and trees provide a lot of shade. After doing some more reading I am thinking about LowE1, which I assume may be the same as Cadinal LowE180. It is nice that Marvin has more info about their glass, and Andersen is not as transparent

If you live in Minnesota, but you get a lot of sun, then get the standard LowE-272 coating. That's what should come on the windows automatically, i.e. standard, and is suitable for your situation.

Thanks Shannon, that helps a lot and it makes sense, I will go with standard LowE-272, do you think that would be LowE2 in Marvin? What Andersen glass would be equivalent to LowE-272?

LowE1 is excellent at maximizing solar grain while at the same time giving the low U value. I agree with the OP in using this but in combination with LowE2. LowE4 is not needed in Minnesota. Keep in mind, that 1 is usually a little more expensive because as Shannon points out, 2 is standard for most manufacturers.

We just installed Andersen 400 windows, love them! Very heavy compared to the old windows (husband is a GC so he did the install), love how smoothly they operate.

Thanks East Bay, I think the sales person is not very knowledgeable, I am glad I did my own due diligence though. Do you know what is standard glass in Andersen or what would be a good glass to use in Minnesota? I am thinking Passive Sun?

Andersen LowE4 is 272, LowE4 Smart Sun is 366, LowE4 Sun is 240 (or maybe 340? I don't remember if they making that change yet or not, but you probably wouldn't want to use 240 or 340 in Minnesota in any case, so that part doesn't matter). Passive Sun is LoE-180, or the same coating as Marvin LowE-1 that you were quoted.

Like Shannon mentioned already, I was also surprised that you were quoted LowE-1 by Marvin unless you specifically asked for a high solar gain coating on your original request. As also pointed out earlier, you aren't looking at a precise apples to apples comparison between 180 and 272, and with 180 generally being more expensive option since it isn't considered a standard by most window companies.

For comparison, Marvin LowE-2 is 272, LowE-3 is 366, and Low ERS is I89 (eye 89, not one 89), which is the same as Andersen HeatLok.

If I still lived in Minnesota (I am originally from St Paul, but currently live in wisco, about an hour from the cities), I would opt for 180 on southern exposure IF my house was set up to allow shading on those windows in the summer. LoE-180 may also be appropriate for windows facing east, but NEVER use it on west facing windows and it's also not the best choice for any windows facing north. If there is no shading over southern facing windows in summer I would personally go with 272 all around.

thanks oberon476, that really helps. One thought I had, While Andersen offers heat lock, Marvin claims that condensation can be a concern in the coldest climates and it is not available in some northern zones. Same glass, but two companies have a different approach to it. Can you tell me why LoE-180 on the west and northern side is not a good idea? Thanks,

I think you are making the glass coating options too complicated. Just get the standard LoE272 everywhere and you will be fine. The more complicated your windows order, the more opportunity there is for error. Given the odd variations of your quotes - and I believe you said they were all from one contractor - that is a likely risk for you.

Regarding condensation. Be wary of marketing hooey. Well-made windows like Marvin Ultimates and Andersen E‘s, If installed correctly, will have condensation only through the fault of the homeowner. The homeowner sets the humidifier too high in 95% of the cases. In MN winter when temps are frequently single digits or below, the humidifier should be no higher than 30-35%. People put them up at 40%+, and the inevitable result is windows condensation. I don’t care about “heat lock“ or whatever - those are the laws of physics. At least Marvin is upfront about it.

There‘s been no mention of whether you are getting casements, double hungs or what. Nor if they’ll be triple pane or double pane. I hope the quotes are consistent across the board on those choices.

orveusz,

You are welcome.

I89 is an exposed surface 4 coating. What it does is reflect heat back into the room rather than having the glass absorb that heat. Reflecting back into the room does two things:

1) it makes sitting next to the window more comfortable because the air in front of the window is slightly warmer. This also results in improved U value performance (less heat loss through the glass)

2) because the glass isn't absorbing room heat, the glass is colder than it would be otherwise and this can potentially lead to increased condensation on the window glass if its really cold outside...you know like mid january in Minnesota.

Some windows companies are more concerned about this potential than others, and some add disclaimers about this possibility.

As I recall, testing by Cardinal has shown that I89 is going to lower edge glass temps about 4° or so, and center of glass about 9° or so versus not using the I89 coating.

Is that a problem? The simple answer is...it depends.

Primarily it depends on how cold it is outside and how much moisture there is inside.

If someone is in a moderate climate then it simply won't be an issue. If you live in Minnesota in January then you might notice an increase in window condensation on the coldest days.

Keep in mind that using a warm-edge spacer helps a lot at the edge. In fact, using a warm edge spacer with I89 results in edge temperature that is still higher than using an aluminium spacer without the I89 coating. As to center-of-glass, 9° does sound like a lot, but even with that much potential glass cooling, with a LowE coating and argon fill the center of glass temp is still higher than it would be if all you had is a plain uncoated dual pane glass package.

And even in the coldest days (bathroom windows excepted), how often does anyone see condensation over an entire window - assuming that the inside of the home isn't really humid.

So will I89 cause your windows to be wetter than they might be otherwise? They might where you (and I) live. But even if it does, it might not be an issue more than a few days during an entire winter.

Make sense?

Anderson E-series are horrible having quality control issues and production delays!

Production delays...? In the middle of global pandemic and contraction of the world economy and materials supply chain....?

Imagine my shock.

It was before pandemic and held up construction 9 months

9 months? If it was before the pandemic, you could have ordered new materials from Marvin...6X over in that 9 months. As soon as they missed their delivery date, assuming you had a ratified order and delivery schedule, you can void the contract if they are in default when it come delivery after a promised delivery date is missed by some significance. Sorry, but it sounds like your builder maybe dropped the ball.

I am not sure you are lending a ton of credibility to your position and story by posting on every Andersen thread and trying to trash the brand. I am neither a fan, nor have any hatred for the brand, but the other situations in which folks have come in and conducted themselves in a similar manner, usually proved to be that they were full of "you know what".

Have no reason to trash the brand except that E series have been horrible and I don’t want anyone else going threw the same issues.

What about the 9 months question from above? How were they delayed by 8 months and that was allowed to stand.