This photo dropped off of my OP. It kind of shows the slope of our yard. The proposed French drain would run down the center of this photo from top to bottom (ish).

There isn't really enough information about the amount and direction of slope to give advice. Where will the sump pump send the water? Where will it get power from?

It might be useful to work with your neighbors on drainage. If you end up pumping all the water out of the shared pond, they may want to contribute to the cost.

The sump pump already exists, is installed in my basement to keep water out of there and is powered by electricity and backup battery. It lets out in the yard, at which point the water rolls down the hill. There is no other direction it can go without pointing in the direction of a neighbor's yard. But it seems like everyone on that side of the street winds up with water in the yard, due to their position on the hill. I don't think they will help with the cost, as they were rude to us from the day we moved in.

I am not sure what info I can give about the slope. The yard is about 30 ft. from my back door to their fence, and the slope runs downwards in that direction. The "highest" point of the deck is about 2.5 ft. - 3 ft. from the lowest point of the ground, in case that gives any insight to the extent of the slope.

When I lived in town, my sump pump drained into the sewer system. Is there anyway you can do that? Do you have a sump crock in your basement?

It's not really practical to discharge into the sewer due to how everything is laid out, but in any case draining into the sewer system is explicitly not allowed by our village code.

Sump pump aside, we would still have issues with a muddy yard because of the slope and plenty of precipitation in the Chicagoland area. I am wondering if the French drain would be the best way to address that.

Is the french drain draining to a remote location or is it just a means to get water to get into the soil quicker? In winter it may freeze solid and won't do much until it thaws out. Do you have any idea what soils are like 3 or 4 feet down? A drywell or two might be a good solution if your soils are relatively permeable. Do a google image search for drywell. You'll see lots of info.

As far as I know the water isn't really being directed anywhere; this is just an effort to get the water to sink deeper into the ground before carrying on its merry way down the hill. I would guess the soil is awful and clay-like, since that is the complaint of gardeners throughout Chicagoland, but I suppose I don't really know if it's any different 4 feet deep.

You really need to get a specialist in soils and drainage for your area in for an onsite visit and evaluation. I would not rely on just someone who does hardscape installation for advice (although they may be able to help, depending on experience and qualifications) and certainly not on any online forum advice!!

I would also not necessarily dismiss grading. While I doubt it would solve the problem, it could help to mitigate it some.

Keep in mind that the water a French drain carries must empty out somewhere...they are a collection system, not a dispersal system :-) And it might make sense to connect the sump as well....they should both connect with or feed into the storm water runoff system.

The OP stated that connecting to the sewer system is not allowed.

The storm water system and the sewer systems are not the same. Or at least they shouldn't be.

In my part of the world, you *have* to figure out how to get the water off your property, and somewhere reasonable, like the Atlantic Ocean. There simply isn't a collection system that is big enough to hold all the water from a massive system that will fit on a suburban lot. However, we average about twice the annual rainfall of Chicago.

Pretty much anywhere that has paved roads has a storm water run-off drainage system. Might just be ditches alongside the road or actual surface drains that connect to undergound culverts or pipes.....the water has to go somewhere!! That is where both the sump and the French drain should feed to and are completely separate from any sewer system. Allowing the water to just dissapate elsewhere on your property is not going to solve any drainage issues!

Elana: I live north of Chicago and LOTS of yards looked like this yesterday due to snow thaw and the downpour! Is that your backyard? Is there a way to get the water to the street?

Try a local landscaper and ask for references SPECIFICALLY for drainage.

In my little crappy village, the 2 systems are 1 in the same. It’s an old system and is sort of a heated issue. I forget that other municipalities actually have systems that aren’t 50+ years out of date.

At past 2 houses I have used buried piping to take sump discharge out to buried drywells. Previous house was relatively high compared to surrounding area; drywell was actually in planting area. I put in water soil plants like Japanese iris. Current home is on 5 flat acres, so I've let the grass grow longer where I can't mow.

Also pay attention to downspouts. I attach mine to buried pipes that lead to either bubble-up basins or pop-up ends. Water in the yard is always better than water in the basement. If your downspout ends too close to the house, it just makes the sump pump work harder.

look up drywells and install them in the low spots of your yard and/or connect your sump pump and gutters up to a couple drywells.

"... the water isn't really being directed anywhere; this is just an effort to get the water to sink deeper into the ground before carrying on its merry way down the hill."

I think this will be a case of throwing money away and deep disappointment. You're not going to be happy unless you get the water out of there and it is a neighborhood issue since your backyard neighbor is inundated. One must examine the larger area (outside one's own yard) in order to know how to solve this.

Village code is designed to keep my yard (and especially my neighbor's yard) flooded. Anything I do will not be in compliance:

"A clear water sump pump should discharge outside the home at grade. The water must be directed either toward the street abutting the property or parallel to or away from the nearest lot line. The point of discharge for any clear water sump pump shall not exceed a maximum of 5' from a foundation.

A clear water sump discharging directly to a sanitary sewer is not in compliance with Village Code and is considered an improper connection and must be brought in compliance.

Downspouts should discharge outside the home to ground at grade. The water must be directed either toward the street abutting the property or parallel to or away from the nearest lot line. The point of discharge for any clear water sump pump shall not exceed a maximum of 5' from a foundation.

A downspout discharging underground with no visible discharge point is not in compliance with Village Code and is considered an improper connection and must be brought in compliance."

In my efforts to get suggestions from everywhere, I have also asked my "regular" plumber for his insight. He also does not think the French drain will work. He is of the opinion that my sump pump is just constantly recycling the same groundwater from my backyard because of where the sump pipe currently lets out. His suggestion was to install a new sump pipe that will protrude at the side of the house, at which point an underground "pop up" pipe can be connected and let water out at the front of my house (only 5 ft. away, if we follow village code). At that point the water would flow into the front yard/side walk/street, where there is no storm drain. Seems like there are pretty much only storm drains on each end of the block at the front of the corner houses... My plumber says he can install a diverter so I can decide which of my yards (front or back) will get flooding, according to the season. :-/ He is of the mind that it's better to preserve the backyard and hopefully give my sump pump less work.

Those of you who know, does that sound like it's any better of a suggestion, or is it just creating a new/worse problem?

Here is my rendition of where the pop-up would emerge, 5 ft. from my house/garage door:

Here is the street it is supposed to somehow flow into from that high point:

It's hard to make a choice when the experts don't agree! And if it's a neighborhood-wide issue, I can't really do anything about that, however I am trying to make it a little less bad for myself and my immediate neighbors...

I think your plumber is correct that if the water is not running away from your house, that the sump pump is recycling it - not a good thing. His suggestion is very much like the way that my son's house drains, except that my son's exit point is closer to the street. It works. His front yard slopes quite steadily to the street - does yours? Do I understand correctly that your exit point can't be closer to the street?

Is there someone where you live that offers a service like this? https://www.advanceddrainagesolutions.com/dry-creek-beds

I would be concerned that the patio might make the situation worse. My deck has a swale under it, that we placed to keep water away from the house. A patio would not have worked for us. Also, I wonder where your downspouts drain to?

The downspout drains very similarly to the sump pump (currently), just at the opposite corner. It only extends the 5 ft., though. The moisture issues don't begin until past the deck and eventual patio, which will be even smaller than the deck.

My plumber did say that it would be better if the pop up could be installed closer to the sidewalk, but that wouldn't be allowed by village code. And it would be noticeable, since it is in the front yard.

My subdivision is graded so that my property at the back is higher than the front, and (facing my house) the left is higher than the right. In other words, my back yard neighbor and my left side neighbor are higher than me.

My back yard drains towards the right, and then water then runs down to the street. At the left, there is a shallow drainage ditch that, again, drains to the street. Against the back of my house, the soil has been graded higher so that water does not flow towards the house. So there is a wide, shallow ditch area under my large deck, channeling backyard water to the right. Your property needs to be regraded so that water flows towards the front. Also, the water from the sump pump and your downspouts also need be deposited at the front of your house, to find its way to the street.

I am the low house on the block and have two sump pumps, both with battery back-up. The sumps are at the front of the house and empty into dry creeks. At the other end of each dry creek there is a drain to a pipe that goes down under the ground and under sidewalk and empties into the storm sewer.

My backyard looks pretty bad right now too:) For a few days I had a pond - often happens in the spring, which my dogs think is great fun to run through and then back into the house. (Sigh!) I plan another dry creak to divert the water from where it forms a pond to the side of the yard where it can drain without harm away from my foundation and my neighbor's home. I will be doing a lot of digging once the weather permits.

Do I understand that if water falls in your front yard it will flow to someone off of your property? In the back yard it will not ...? If that's the case, the plumber's solution sounds more sensible to me because the sump would be permanently disposing of whatever water it pumped, whereas pumping it to the back yard is a recycling act. It sounds much better than a "french drain" in the backyard.

You can see the photos of the front yard/driveway a couple of posts above. The theory is that the water will flow down our front lawn, over our sidewalk, and towards the street (no storm drain there), but the outlet can only be 5 ft. from my foundation line, so I am not convinced the water will actually make it to the street, since the slope in front is more gentle than the slope in back, and the outlet in back is much further away from the house than the allowed 5 ft. as it is, so if THAT'S not far away enough...? I am not sure why the dramatic slope and further removed outlet in the back is so close that the sump pump is recycling water, while expecting the gentler slope in front would reduce that problem.

Even a gentle slope will drain water away if there is somewhere for it to go. The pond in your back yard just ensures that the ground is saturated.

But why is the pond in the backyard there at all? Because of the sump pump discharge pipe? Will the pond simply move to the front yard if the discharge point is moved? I'm not sure 5 ft. distance will be enough to get the water to the street. It's still something like 25 ft. from that point to the street.

To be clear, I am not trying to poke holes in this suggestion. I'm mostly just trying to apply the "Socratic method" so I can be more confident in going that route! :)

The rain landing in the front yard HAS to be running somewhere as it cannot all absorb into the ground. Water that hits the drive is either going to the street or into the garage, so that would be a main clue about how the adjacent yard is sloped. It can be checked with a carpenter's level. If the slope is shallow the water may not run quickly, but it will nevertheless run. It is not likely that water reaching the street can return, whereas at the back yard, it cannot leave as it has no escape route (except to sink into the ground -- the giant sponge -- and migrate back to your basement.

You can test it. Run the garden hose with the nozzle where the outlet would be on the front yard. Do you get a pond or does it run off onto the street?

Not sure if I am understanding what you are saying correctly, but our driveway definitely slopes toward the street, not towards the garage. However, that is partly why my plumber suggested the diverter for different seasons - so buildup of ice could be avoided on the sidewalk (and I guess driveway, if there is the risk of water flowing in that direction).

So in some seasons the water would flow different directions?

I would look for a company in your area that provides a comprehensive assessment and service like this one does.

I was only referencing the driveway as an indicator of the direction of front yard slope. The photographs do not help us in determining what it is and you didn't seem confident that it had much, if any, slope. But it seems to match the drive, indicating that the front yard does have positive slope toward the street ... which means it capable of getting rid of water placed in the front yard by a sump pump.

Right now, the plumber has an enormous advantage over the rest of us in that he has made a site visit, and seen the slopes in person. Getting the water off the property is the first step in managing this, and he has told you how to get that done.

One of the winter issues with water is that plow dams and other, rather solid snow features can temporarily change slopes and how water flows. Normally, rain flows down my driveway to the street, then veers left to end up in a drainage ditch across the street. However, during the winter we can get plow dams that block meltwater from leaving the driveway, and can get an icy pool at the foot of the drive. Since it usually only takes up the left side, we tend to ignore it.

It's not that I'm not confident that the slope in front veers towards the street, it's just that slope is decidedly less dramatic than the one in back. Both slopes essentially go away from the house, as we are on top of the "hill."

You questioned if the water would get to the street. If there's a slope (it does not need to be "dramatic") it will. Then, as MG points out, if the slope is dammed up at the street with snow, that would present another, different problem.

Yes, there will be a wall of plowed snow in the winter time...

Any short term problem that you have with ice dams will be much less of an issue than the one you had now. As with MG, we too sometimes have a shallow puddle at the foot of our driveway, not only from our own property's water but from further up the street. But it's well away from our house and ends up draining away on the street. As I suggested earlier, run some water from your hose in the spot where the water will discharge, and you will be able to see where it goes.

We've nixed the French drain installation for now. We will likely go with my plumber's proposal; it is by far the simpler and cheaper option, and if it doesn't work to our satisfaction we can always pursue a French drain in the yard, or some other more costly remedy, later. I appreciate all of you helping me work through this tough call! It was very helpful in making peace with our decision.

For the future, consider that a "french drain" in this situation is going to amount to a hole in the ground. Its success is likely to rely almost exclusively on the size of cavity it creates. In essence, it would be an underground detention pond, whereas the rain runoff is quickly conveyed into it, but then that water slowly absorbs into the surrounding ground. Consider that it's not going to absorb just your yard's water, but since your present "pond" connects directly with the back yard neighbor, his water is going to go into your drain, too, necessitating a french drain cavity that is much larger than what you would need for your yard alone. Once the underground cavity is filled with water, the french drain is null and void in its ability to accept more and any extra just becomes an above ground pond, the same as you have now. Creating a very large cavity could work for most storms, but probably not be 100% successful for very large or extended storms. If the cavity size is mediocre, it will likely be disappointing in most storms. I guess, in other words, I would not bother with it unless you were going to do something significant ... say, for example, installing an underground storage tank or series of connected, buried culverts. Otherwise, just live with it and rejoice when you move to your next house.

We are hoping for there not to be a "next" house (except maybe a retirement home!), so will definitely want to get everything in as tolerable of a condition as we can. In time.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the "water level table" of the property.

My home is on the top of the property and the back slopes down. You would think I wouldn't have a water problem, but because the water table is high, water from rain/snow doesn't have anywhere to go into the ground so builds up and needs a sump pump to move it out.

What i'm thinking still might happen with you and your neighbors is that you will still have water issues, as the water cannot be absorbed into the ground. Just a thought.

It's hard to know until we try. I look at my immediate neighbors, and none of them have the same "pond." We are all at about the same level, grade-wise.

One of the causes of the pond is that your sump pump water is running over to your back yard neighbor's pond. Your neighbor will have less of a pond when your sump pump discharges to the front.

That is precisely what we are hoping for! :)

Thanks for the update and so glad that you found a good solution. Amazing that the "psychic" drainage company could discover a spring without ever looking at your property!

Yes, I was definitely miffed! The worst thing about it is I specifically asked them to come out anyway, and they "set up an appointment" and then just blew me off! Couldn't believe it.