Burpee, David Austin , Edmunds carries some DA's now, Regan, White Flower Farm. If they say bare root 'usually' these places mean grafted.

The David Austin site is the one that offers these roses only as own-root. I ordered some from Burpee, I will look into the others. Thank you!

Thats odd it does say that this year for Golden Celebration on the DA site.

Last year I bought GC frm them and it was a bare root. Last year they were also listing some of their roses as climbers and some as regular versions. For example, GC climber and GC shrub...The climbers, I noticed were all bare root and for the regular some were own root. Weird but I guess, the more vigorous ones grafted on Doc Huey were sure to be climber worthy lol.

All the roses I got from them this year are listed as bare root.

Hortico offers DA's also.I think they are grafted on multiflora. I havent ordered frm them so cant say how they do etc.

Edmunds has GC listed. You can call and see if its grafted. Says 2 yr old but not if it is a grafted or OR.

https://www.edmundsroses.com/P/25720/Golden+Celebration+Rose

I'm wondering if DA site is just sold out of grafted bareroots. When I was doing all my research on which roses to order and from where, DA had all bareroot, i.e. grafted, and the own root were not available on most. But I ordered back in early November so I would hopefully get what I wanted before they ran out.

I'm no expert and maybe I was looking late in the season, but depending on type, it was either potted or bare root. On the bare root, it came as either bare root (grafted) or OWN root . I don't recall seeing ordering options where it was *bare root* and having a offering on own root vs grafted root.

For example

https://www.davidaustinroses.com/us/lady-of-shalott-shrub-rose

A1an, I think I’ve seen that on like one rose before. I just don’t want the own roots for these particular varieties.

Most of my DAs were from Hortico. A good nursery to order from.

10-4 rachel. I'm a noob rose grower so YMMV. Aside from non direct offering own root, fortunia, etc, I wonder what is the rhyme/reason/theory/decision making when DA Direct offers a particular rose on Huey or Own Root. I guess the simple answer may be some roses just don't perform well when grafted ?

A1an, that is definitely a question that can be answered by one of the more experienced members here. I’m still a novice myself. Thanks for the Hortico suggestions, everyone. I agree that is probably best. I know a couple spots in my yard are quite chalky, however I have some roses coming in from Palatine that I plan to try in other areas. I guess I will just have to wait and see how they perform. I know Gracie from Grace Rose Farm has said that she feels multiflora gives the biggest blooms. It would be a shame if I can’t sustain it here. I believe Moses has roses grafted to multiflora though, and I believe our conditions are similar, so I am hopeful. It seems so much of the country is alkaline Clay!

I am firmly in the grafted "camp". I have a disaster of an Abe Darby that is own root. I think Hortico might be a good source for some Austins. I have ordered a number of roses (non Austins) from them, and they have performed well, including Augusta Luise. As far as Eglantyne, I've grown five of them, starting from the year it came on the market, and I think it probably needs to be grafted. I like Dr Huey for my soil, but multiflora is OK, too. Diane

Ah, I was just reading through the thread on the new UK intros, when I think I might have found a clue. It was mentioned that there wasn’t enough material to have 3 intros. I wonder if due to weather insanity of this past year, as well as virus, there just isn’t as much Huey rootstock to be had this year and the year prior? So perhaps DA went own-root with ones they felt more vigorous/could still perform well, which would make sense for GC and DB, potentially? I’ve noted a lot of websites are offering GC own-root currently, as well as some other roses, even say Quicksilver. I can’t seem to find an online source with the Rose grafted. Guess I will need to troll my local Lowe’s! I know that Italian Ranunculus has said that they are not sure that they will have enough product to meet demand this year due to weather.....

Rachel, take a look at Hortico. They graft on multiflora, but I have alkaline desert soil, and it does fine here even so. I just bought a five gallon Quick Silver locally, only to find out it is own root--skeptical of that, but my forum friend Flowers grows a beautiful own root Quick Silver, and thinks this rose will be OK for me. I'm hoping, and I'm hoping this is my last own root. I've grown Golden Celebration for about 13 years, and it is a vigorous, almost continuous blooming rose, grafted on the doctor. I think GC is probably a good candidate for own root, but I still would prefer grafted if I bought one today. Diane

Thank you Diane! My local garden center that specializes in roses just put out their list, and the have a little symbol by the own roosts(quite a lot) it appears they wil have GC, DB, Eglantyne, and Quicksilver grafted! Interestingly, some of the ones that are grafted on the DA site they are listing as having own-root, such as PAoK, The Ancient Mariner, strawberry hill, and Munstead Wood. Odd. But awesome nonetheless!

Sorry to hijack our thread. When rose sellers sell DA and it not from DA stock that is shipped and ~resold~, but they sell their own cuttings/own root, or grafted on multi, etc - does said places need to pay a licensing fee per plant ?

This is not answering your question, but every rose I buy from my favorite local nursery is in the official DA pot, with official tags, and of course, the nursery pays the licensing fee. Others may use other sources for the plants, and if the roses are off patent, that is OK, but they need to use the patent "name", not the commercial name everyone recognizes. I doubt this always happens. Diane

Rachel, PAoK is such a thug in warmer climates, I think she'll do OK own root, but not so sure about Munstead Wood. I'm glad you can get all the others grafted. We should compare Quick Silvers. Diane

My Strawberry Hill is very slow here OR. My 2 Quicksilvers are great OR. They are about the same vigor as my grafted QS now. The first yr they didn't do much but they had a major growth spurt the second yr.

I remembered David Austin offered Munstead Wood and PAoK as own roots as of late 2018. I just checked their website again which showed they now offered these 2 as bareroots. Interestingly Regan Nursery, which get their supply directly from David Austin, are showing they still sell both of them as "own root". I wondered if Regan and other nurseries got their supplies late last year from David Austin, so they are own roots, but now David Austin is coming out with these new grafted versions??

I got 2 Munstead Wood as own root from Regan last year. It grew slowly and were no taller than 2 feet by the end of season. However, they bloomed well and were almost continuously blooming for me. I also have PAoK as own root, and I can attest that it is rigorous. It grew to about 4 feet in its first year and bloomed a lot also.

I like this thread...

As a new rose grower myself, I'm very keen on understanding the pro/cons of own vs grafted. Ultimately 85% of my order was grafted but I figuered as I actually grew them, I would do my own cuttings and then observe

I started a thread awhile back

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/own-root-vs-graft-dsvw-vd~5599565

Off topic or on. Granted the root system is just it's foundation and the core is the graft. Well, you know how soil, temps, water, MANY variables affect the color of the bloom. Kinda like how ya'll are saying grafted often ~takes off~ for you on the the rose plating. Doe root system potentially, remotely change the color.

a1an, I believe it does to an extent.

When I was reading about Veilchenblau, I came across a number of posters who mentioned that because it is a Multiflora, it’s color would trend more ”blue” in acidic soil.

Similar to a hydrangea.

These were old posts though, not sure if that has become standard knowledge or if it has been debunked

I like blue, but I strive for the *purple* in my hydra's. Heh, like the perfect purple from the cuttings of nurserys when they sell them for mothers day. Gosh, I can go on-on about those perfectly curated incubated nursery grown purples ;-)

Me wonders how many who prefer own root, etc are doing so due to potential *bloom color* preference depending on said species relative to their plant sitings

I believe own root is preferred for colder climates in the event that the rose dies to the ground over winter.

If a graft dies, there is potential for the rootstock to grow back instead of the rose you see above the graft.

The types of grafted rootstock preferences could be a thread of its own.

A1an, I haven’t heard anything yet regarding bloom color, but that’s a really interesting idea!! you should start a comparison thread!

My knowledge is pretty rudimentary, but what I have learned so far to echo the others: that own-root can be helpful for the northern climates, due to less chance of losing the graft during harsh winter. However, multiflora rootstock is also supposed to add a degree of improved winter hardiness to the scion. Additionally, the bud unions on grafted roses have a high fail rate after a few years in general, so you could potentially shorten the lifespan of the Rose. (You will sometimes read experienced forum members say things about their older roses like “it must have gone own-root by now.”) Dr. Huey was a climber, so those that are grafted to him, particularly Austins, will get taller than own-root counterparts, wanting to climb. I have read from some rose growers I follow on Instagram, that multiflora grafted roses produce bigger and more abundant blooms than those grafted to Huey. I don’t know if that is really something that is commonly agreed upon, though. The big concern with Multiflora is that it doesn’t do well in alkaline soil, basically dampening off. I don’t know what the pH cutoff for this is. Unfortunately, a whole heck of the US is alkaline clay. Multiflora can tolerate wet soil better than Huey(it still doesn’t LIKE it). Consensus seems to be that own-root will catch up to grafted in 2-3 years’ time. In general, however, a lot of DA roses that are own-root just don’t do as well as those grafted, even in the context of time. Presumably due to their extensive breeding programs placing higher priority on other factors. (Which is why, I’m almost every interview he does, Michael Marriott explains why DA wedding roses aren’t available to the general public). If you get the bug badly like I did, and are interested in the more rare roses, or love the French style Delbards/Massads/Tantaus like Diane and I do, you will almost always have to go own-root with those. (I’m so excited for my Versigny I can’t stand it!) Palatine does have some on multiflora, though(I have La Rose de Molinard coming and am very excited). One poster suggested above K&M and Cool roses, however those are grafted to fortuniana, which will not survive in my Zone, 6A. If any of this is incorrect though, the experienced ladies and gentlemen here will set it straight. The knowledge of this forum a truly amazing, and everyone is so kind here!!

Diane, we should absolutely compare! I purchased an own-root Quicksilver from Reagan last year, and it went to work just steadily putting down roots(or so I think, because it didn’t grow much). Your roses are always so perfect, I’m sure they will be stunning regardless!

Ugh, those hydrangeas, haha. I have given up on my Mac quest and just ordered two zinfin dolls. I think you will find this forum much more helpful ;)

Sorry for excessive comments, but Alan, I think you would really enjoy looking back through some of StrawChicago’s posts and comments. She loves the intricate details of growing, and regularly did experiments with her roses, posting the results. I think it might really be up your alley.

Experience is the best teacher. Mad gallica or other Northeasterer's tips could not be beat as far as a newer rose grower getting started. Straw has a lot of fun with what she does, but it really is not that complicated.

Good point, Sheila, a lot of it would go over my head, haha!

I have started a couple threads , and many have replied to go grafted in my LI 7A.

Re: your comment on the graft being the weak point. I see and get that. I'm going with 2 DA treeforms as well. They way I am approaching this terrible idea of a 36" exposed graft, is that even if DA will not cover me under their 5 year warranty (if I get 4 years of blooms for the money I paid), the expense was well worth it. Hell, I spend hundreds on annual each year, so for a perennial, the pricepoint ain't too shabby.