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isabellagracepan

Help with window sizes for colonial home

isabellagracepan
5 years ago

Hello,

We are building a 1920s colonial revival style home. We want a new-old house feel, and in our area (Vancouver Island, B.C.), the oldest homes usually date to around the 1920s. There were several historic buildings (mostly hotels) in the colonial revival style, but unfortunately all of them have burnt down or been destroyed.


We are working on the window sizes at present. We currently have the windows at 36" wide and 72" tall on both the upper and lower floors. I know that historically the older colonials (1600-1700s) had much smaller windows, but that the later Federal and Georgian inspired ones had larger windows. We are trying to find a balance between historically accurate proportions and letting in lots of light in our gloomy winter climate!


In Getting Your House Right, classical architect Marianne Custato recommends a ratio of 2:1 (height:width) for most homes as a starting point. I have been measuring one of our only remaining local historic homes, and I like an even steeper ratio of 2.2: 1 just as well if not better.


Our home will be 42' wide and is a "five bay" (i.e. five windows on the second floor and two on each side of the main door on the first floor) with 10' ceilings on the main floor and 8' ceilings on the second floor.


Do you have a colonial? If so, I would love to hear what about your window dimensions! Architects or passionate home aficionados, I would love to hear your opinions too! And yes, I know we should be working with an architect, but all of the local firms specialize in West Coast style, which is very contemporary, and I had a very hard time trying to find a classically trained architect in Canada. In the end, we are hoping for the best with me doing all of the research and working with a home designer that we like.


Link to (now destroyed) local historic buildings to give a sense of place:

https://www.courtenaymuseum.ca/comox-valley-history/our-holdings/photo-gallery/hotels-inns-gallery/


Thanks so much!

Comments (12)

  • PRO
    PPF.
    5 years ago

    What does your house look like?

  • PRO
    PPF.
    5 years ago

    Does your designer have the ability to show you a 3D version of your home? Changing window sizes should be trivial and it's what they look like on your house that matters.

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  • tendrac
    5 years ago

    Like you, we are in the process of building a "new-old" home which was designed by me with the assistance of a local architect (licensed). Before and during the process, I used (studied) many references, including historical sources (i.e., antebellum homes and Asher Benjamin). Of all of these, one of my favorite go-to books was Getting Your House Right. It has been a very interesting process (lots of learning and a bit of head-bumping) but this book got us through when our architect thought that he knew best (I love him though). We are now at the permitting stage of our project.


    Our home is Greek Revival (Doric Order) with Italianate accents. It mass and wing design. The main level will have 12' ceilings and the upper level will have 10' ceilings. The windows at the front of the house will be 36" x 108" (triple hung) and all other windows on the main-level will be 36" x 78" (with 30" sill heights). On the upper level, the windows are 36" x 72" (with 29" sill heights). In the basement, where we will have 9' ceilings, the windows will be 36" x 70" (28" sill heights). With such large windows, the one thing that I was adamant about was having a rhythm set on every elevation of the house.


    Anyway, my advice to you is to study as many historical images (and, preferably, buildings) as possible. For me, photos and touring historic homes was paramount. Also, based on the dimensions that we have for our windows, I would suggest that you consider the sill heights and trim widths. Additionally, you will want to take into account your door heights. Our house has been designed to have windows that are set at a finished height greater than our doors. Like the exterior, the interior doors and windows have "rhythm," or a pattern of sorts, where the trim and door heights vary between formal and informal spaces.


    One other thing: our main mass (not including the wing) is 47'9" wide.


    P.S. we had a 3D rendering done of our home and based on the sources that I used (with the image that I had in my head), it turned out perfect (minus the price tag). I credit this to studying as many sources and references as possible during the design process.

  • tendrac
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Another thing that I want to add: pay very close attention to the inflection and, especially, the differentiation of your openings. This is where you will set the rhythm of your openings. Based on the style of your home and the sizes of the windows that you have mentioned, my advice would be to make sure that your main level windows are sized larger than the upper level windows. They should also read as 2-1-2 instead of 1-1-1-1-1.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    5 years ago

    There is a lot of references out there; or find a local architect well versed in traditional architecture and has a good library.

  • User
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The Colonial Revival style in the US was not an attempt to replicate colonial houses. It was a reaction to the Victorian style and it had its on aesthetic and very few rules. In general the houses were large with a fairly open plan and classical detailing.

    It was the dominant style when my city was settled so there are plemty of examples here and I've renovated many and I live in an 1891 Colonial Revival. I'll try to find you some good reference sources. Get Your House Right is one of my favorite reference books for classical detailing but it won't be very helpful for Colonial Revival window sizes.

    Regarding windows, they were very large large often paired unlike colonial houses. They might have multiple panes in the top sash but usually none in the lower sash (6 or 8 over 1). As in my house they might also have 2 over 1 or 1 over 1 or diamond panes over 1 pane. "Palladian windows" were often above entrances. There is probably no historical style that had so many variations because it drew on so many Colonial ideas and Classical elements with no real limits.

    The windows in my house are too varied to list but individual double-hung windows in the Living Room are 47" x 72". There are two sets of those 47" windows flanked on each side by 23" windows. The kitchen windows are 47" x 52". The upstairs windows are mostly 47" x 63". There are 3 smaller ones in a row on the large stairway with diamond panes in the upper sash.

    Ground floor ceilings are 10-0 and the second floor ceilings are 9-0. The third floor is under the roof with 10-0 ceilings and large dormers.













  • isabellagracepan
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thank you so much to everyone who replied! I really appreciate all of your feedback and ideas. I will definitely look up all of those books to see what is available at our local library/ amazon. I have a half-dozen or so of the Dover Architectural series from the 1920s, and I really love learning from historical sources.


    Thanks also RES for the actual dimensions of your windows. I do not want to do paired windows, even though I know it was very common in the revival style. I haven't found any local buildings that had them (unlike our previous home out East, where they were much more common), so I think individual windows will fit better in the landscape. I am very glad to know that you have individual windows that are wider than 36", as I was a bit worried that a window of that width would look too new for the style.


    Thank you tendrac for your dimensions and sill height considerations. We have some height restrictions to deal with, so we cannot do the 10' main and 9' second that we were hoping for. We have to reduce one of the floors by 1', and I think we are leaning towards 10'/ 8' rather than 9'/9'. What do you think about this? It will affect: lighting (no gorgeous hanging lights over the beds), the space around the dentil detailing on the exterior, and the upper floor window size.


    Marc and tira-misu- I will check out those books!


    Any more feedback or ideas are well appreciated!

  • tendrac
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Your situation sounds like ours in regards to building-height limitations, though I'm guessing that our codes are a little more lenient. Unfortunately, we had to minimize the cornice / entablature on the main structure of our home due to exceeding our city's maximum building-height.


    Personally, if I was in your situation, I would consider the 10' / 8' ceilings, also. Based on historical norms, it was not unheard of to diminish details (i.e., ceiling heights, trim, door size, etc.) as one progressed from formal areas to informal areas such as to bathrooms, bedrooms, and upper levels. So, going from a 10' main level to 8' upper level should not feel drastic, especially if some type of continuity or rhythm is maintained between the two floors.


    When I was doing my research for our home, I looked at what seemed like a trillion pictures and historical floor plans for additional inspiration to supplement my reference books. Though we are located in an area where many historical homes are still standing, looking at real estate listings online (which there are websites dedicated to aggregating listings for historical homes) actually proved quite beneficial for both me and our architect. And, I learned quite a few new architectural terms that appear to no longer be in usage any more.


    In regards to the exterior cornice details, much of what you will be able to achieve is going to be determined by what you are wanting to do on the interior of your home as well as the window placements. Also, your overall building height will, in turn, affect your cornice dimensions. So, you will need to pay close attention to those details. Again, this is a great place where Get Your House Right was invaluable.


    Some other books that I would like to suggest to you are:


    - A Field Guide to American Houses by Virginia Savage McAlester-- with your situation, this book would be a great asset. In it, you will find details regarding the defining aspects of historical architecture in America. The author includes lots of photos, and there is a section on Colonial Revival homes.


    - anything by Gil Schafer. I loved looking at his interpretations of "new-old" homes and historical renovations.


    - American House Styles by John Milnes Baker -- this is a great complement to the Virginia McAlester book. He takes a simple house plan and moves it through the stages of historical architecture. He, also, gives what I would consider a succinct explanation of each period.


    Lastly, in regards to the lighting: I understand about the opportunity being lost for those wonderful hanging lights. But, do consider that what you will save cost-wise in that area, can be applied to another space such as a foyer, living or dining room. Also, do check out stores that sell historic lighting (i.e, Rejuvenation). When I was creating the lighting list for our cost structures, I came across some GORGEOUS, multi-light flush-mount fixtures that would not work in our home due to the height of the ceilings and size of rooms.

  • isabellagracepan
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Ha! I already own two of those books! We must have similar reading styles!


    Thanks for all of the great suggestions. We are off to discuss and plan...


  • PRO
    Anglophilia
    5 years ago

    Lucky you to live on Vancouver Island! My DH and I spent several days in Victoria the year before he died and lived it and all the beautiful houses and the incredible gardens.

    as you will see from pictures of my own house, it, unfortunately, is not a 2-story colonial, but it does have some traditional elements. Several years ago, I replaced all the windows in the house and enlarged the three front windows. It transformed my house, both inside and out. We have very bleak winters in KY so light is very welcome, and in the spring and summer, bringing the outside in with the big windows, is wonderful. I will disturb two dogs if I go get a tape to measure the windows, but I think they are about 44-46” wide, including molding. I love the look of 8 over 12 windows.

    Here’s how the windows look.

  • User
    5 years ago

    It appears you want to recreate a Colonial style. The Colonial Revival style is something quite different.