trying to grow pure Changsha in zone 7a would be a stretch, most likely it's not going to work out, but you may have a chance in zone 7b (especially the warmer half of zone 7b) if you live in the South. I have tasted the fruit of what I believe was a Morton citrange. The fruit entirely looked like a delicious orange, very inviting, but biting into it it had an awful flavor that I can only describe as putrid, and it made me want to immediately spit it out. I was told there was one other person who tasted it that found it to taste acceptably edible and could eat it. From what I have researched, I think many other Poncirus hybrids don't taste as bad as this Morton citrange, though they usually do tend to have a similar flavor. As for the US 852 hybrid, I have seen a video where a guy said he was even able to manage to enjoy eating them. Though I suspect he probably had more "adventurous" tastes that many people.

Yes. PT = Poncirus Trifoliata. I mixed some in with other dishes and some I ate by itself. It does have seeds, and it's a powerful taste. If you like bland fruit, I wouldn't recommend it. Part of it is that some friends have recommended PT as a rootstock, so PT is a "beach head" in the citrus area that may or may not develop by grafting on, say, yuzu, or Thomasville Citrangequat. We have had new record heat here each year for the last 3 years. I'm 52 and I've never seen something like this here, so it could develop that way too. John S PDX OR

I called and talked to Darin yesterday. I will Report to this thread as promises are full filled.. He was very nice and apologetic. maybe I'm too passive.. I don't mind waiting.. I mean.. I called after I sent my payment. but that was to check that the postal money order I sent was received. The Lady that answered the phone seemed very surprised that I wasn't calling to ask where my plants were. I told her that I know they are busy that time of year.. I just wanted to make sure they received their payment... honestly.. the page says wait 3-4 weeks for delivery.. I would have given 4-6 weeks.. but I did receive them 4 weeks almost to the day. If you look at the bid page you can "review" the bidders history " who won". you can read their comments about buying these trees.. if you click on their name and click on feed back left for others.. I read all of them.. the only complaints were late trees. and a few that weren't happy with the size of the trees. but not one about being the wrong tree. I find it hard to believe that out of 40+ buyers that we are ALL so unknowledgeable about citrus trees as I am. (think I need a citrus for dummies book) LOL since the trees I got were wrong ones.. I can't comment on how good of condition they ship citrus. but the trifoliate were shipped well. He said I could dispose of the trees I got as I see fit.. so I am going to throw one outside and see if it is as cold hardy as I have been reading.. will look good out on my parents farm. need to figure out what I am going to do with the others. I've considered trying budding and grafting. if it doesn't work out.. I'm not out any thing.. wonder how long I should wait on my seedlings to try to graft them?? which of my seedlings would be good candidates to learn with?? which citrus have highest grafting success??? my surviving stock.. tangerine, tangelo, clementine, lemons, and nagami kumquat. which would benefit most from being grafted to dwarfing root stock? and then there is budding or grafting? so many questions.. (wonder about that citrus for dummies book again) I've looked and looked at T-budding web pages ( really like the ones with pictures) and that doesn't look too bad.. I haven't been able to find a decent page with decent pictures for grafting.. I am seriously considering taking a horticulture class.. Might be able to get my parents to foot that bill.. they are trying to "farm" and just moved here from New Mexico. Aside from their cherry trees that have been on the property for who knows how long their crops so far have been very small and unprofitable. Anyway.. I'll keep everyone updated.. Thanks for all comments and Help on this thread. Gina *BabyBlue*

Greetings from Virginia Beach! Here are the details about the upcoming 2006 Southeast Citrus Expo. It should be a great time and all those in the surrounding areas are encouraged to attend. SOUTHEAST CITRUS EXPO 2006 The Southeast Citrus Exposition is now into its fourth year. Its purpose is to encourage citrus growing outside the commercial citrus belt for both the home gardener and the serious enthusiast. This years Expo will feature expert speakers who will provide information on growing cold-hardy citrus in the Southeast United States. Topics that will be discussed will be: in ground or container culture, advice on choosing citrus, cold protection, grafting and selection of root stock, as well as other topics. The Expo will include a citrus fruit contest, plant sale, and tours of citrus trees growing in Virginia Beach, Virginia. When: Saturday November 18th 2006 from 10:00AM to 4:30PM (entries of fruit for the contest must be received between 9:00AM and 10:00AM ( NO LATER) Where: Virginia Aquarium & Marine Science Center Virginia Beach, VA. 717 General Booth Blvd. Virginia Beach, VA. 23451 (757) 425-FISH www.virginiaaquarium.com Directions: From I-95 North 11 miles above the VA./NC. State Line take RT# 58 East to Norfolk/Virginia Beach. Stay on RT#58 until Bowers Hill Intersection. At Bowers Hill, bear right onto I-64 East. Take a right on to I-264 East, stay on I-264 until Atlantic Ave at the Virginia Beach Ocean Front. Take a right on Atlantic Ave, go over the Rudee Inlet Bridge, continue approximately ¾ miles and you will see the Virginia Aquarium on the right. 2006 Expo Agenda 7:30  9:00AM Early Bird Plant Sale at Pungo Palms Nursery Plant Sale promptly ends at 9:00AM ( Note: Vendors can setup at 7:00AM) 9:00  10:00AM Registration and Admission ( Make sure you participate in the drawing for afternoon tour groups A or B) Admission to the Citrus Expo will be FREE for those attending. Admission to the Aquarium will be at a reduced group rate. Raffle tickets for the Expo plant giveaway will be available before the lectures and during the display of the fruit in the competition. Tickets will be $1.00 and will benefit the Citrus Expo. Plants for Raffle will be donated by the Expo coordinators & vendors. These will include: cold-hardy citrus, cold-hardy palms, and other rare plants. 10:00  1045AM Presentation by Bob Koch, "Citrus Grown in Containers", Located in the March Pavilion Auditorium. 11:00  11:45AM Presentation by Stan McKenzie and Ned Rahn, " In Ground Citrus Culture", Located in the Marsh Pavilion Auditorium. 12:00  1:00PM Fruit Competition Awards, Fruit Display, and Raffle in the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic Ocean PavilionÂs Promenade Room Note: all fruit entered in the competition will be on display 1:15  2:15PM (Lunch on your own) a list and location of restaurants within three miles Of the Aquarium will be provided. Expo Afternoon Tours and Plant Sale For afternoon tours, all participants will be gathered into two groups. Group A Group B 2:20  3:15PM Group A Will tour Robert MotycaÂs Citrus located in his back yard Robert will give a talk on approach grafting. 3:15  4:00PM Group B Will tour Robert MotycaÂs Citrus located in his back yard Robert will give a talk on approach grafting. 3:40  4:30PM+?? "ALL" End of the day plant sale at Pungo Palms Nursery and tour Of in ground citrus The Southeast Citrus Expo is sponsored by: *GaryÂs Nursery, New Bern, North Carolina Wholesale and retail grower of cold hardy palms, Bananas, citrus, and other plants in eastern North Carolina since 1975. Gary will have plants available for purchase at the Plant sale. Visit GaryÂs Nursery online at www.garysnursery.com *McKenzie Farms Nursery, Scranton, South Carolina Stan "The Citrusman" McKenzie sells many varieties of cold hardy citrus trees, palms, traditional fruit trees, vegetables and other plants. Stan will bring citrus for the plant sale. Visit McKenzie Farms online at www.mckenzie-farms.com or email at citrusman99@hotmail.com *RahnÂs Plant Connection, Port Royal, South Carolina Ned and Faye Rahn sell a large variety of citrus trees and other rare plants and flowers not found at garden centers. They will bring plants for the plant sale. Email Ned and Faye at plantfolks@yahoo.com *Virginia Greenhouse Association, Hampton Roads Chapter Members are greenhouse owners, who love plants and want to share their knowledge and experiences with other plant lovers. *The Southeastern Palm Society The Southeast Palm Society is a chapter of the International Palm Society, Members are devoted to growing hardy palms and other extraordinary plants, including hardy citrus. Visit the Southeastern Palm Society online at www.sepalms.org. *Southern Fruit Fellowship The Southern Fruit Fellowship is an informal organization of amateur fruit growing enthusiasts throughout the Southern United States. Membership is open to all interested parties. The fellowship has a quarterly newsletter and has meetings at different locations In the Southeast. Membership and dues: contact Retta Davis (318)686-4249 or email: DAVISD_R@Hotmail.com *Flying Dragon Citrus Nursery, Jacksonville, FL. Flying Dragon Citrus Nursery specializes in many varieties of citrus which are grafted on Flying Dragon rootstock. Any questions or requests, call: (904)880-5026 or email: www.flyingdragoncitrusnursery.com *The Artist in the Garden, Virginia Beach, VA. Scott Dilatash is the artist in the garden. He is the purveyor of unusual custom landscapes In the Southeast Virginia and Northeast North Carolina area. Call (757) 696-7263 *The Virginia Beach Master Gardeners, Virginia Beach, VA. A fellowship of Certified Master Gardeners in the City of Virginia Beach, sponsored by the Virginia Polytechnic Extension Service. *Pungo Palms Nursery, Virginia Beach, VA. Growers of rare and unusual cold hardy palms, desert plants, citrus, bananas, and other sub tropical plants. The nursery is located in the Back Bay area of Virginia Beach , both Ralph and Kathy Denton will participate in the Expo plant sale. Contact us at: Pungo Palmsfreeserver.com\ or call: (757) 426-3677. The Forth Southeastern Citrus Exposition Fruit Competition Rules and Procedures Fruit Preparation All fruit entered must be grown by the entrant, either in a container or in the ground. Before submission, fruit should be washed and prepared for eating. Remove any pesticide residue. Judges may have to taste fruit in case of a tie. A minimum of three fruit of a specific cultivar must be donated per entry: for example, three Satsuma fruit are required to qualify as one entry. One of the fruit must be cut in half "against the grain (as you would cut a grapefruit) to show the inside of the fruit. (See the illustration above for an example.) Fruit can be returned at the request of the entrant. Fruit must contain at least ½" of stem attached. One fruit should have at least leaf attached to the stem. Check the category sheet to determine proper entry. At the Expo Entries must be submitted between 9:00AM and 10:00 AM. After 10:00AM entries will not be accepted. At registration, you will be given an entry number to ensure anonymity. Make sure that you keep this number with you until the award ceremony. An entry card must be filled out for each entry. Be sure that you put your entry number on each card. Viewing of the fruit will take place from 12:00 to 1:00PM Blue, red, and white ribbons will be awarded for each category. In addition, there will be a "Best in Show, "Honorable Mention", and "Most Unusual" award. Citrus Categories for the Contest There will be a grown-in-ground category and a container-grown category. Any cultivar not listed here will be assigned to a category by the judging coordinator. Sweet Orange Ambersweet Cara Cara Hamlin Naval Parson Brown Pineapple Sour Orange Abers Narrowleaf Bergamot Bigaradier Apepu Boquet des Fleurs Chinotto Citrus neoaurantium Gou Tou Nansho Daidai ( Citrus Tiawanica) Sauvage Seville Smooth Flat Seville Willowleaf Zhu Luan Mandarin Changsha Clementine Clem-Yuz 2-2 Clem-Yuz 3-3 Dancy Juanita Keraji Minneola Tangelo Nasnaran Orlando Tangelo Ponkan Satsuma Shekwasha Kumquat & Hybrids Chang Shou Fukushu Hong Kong Lemonquat Limequat ( Eustis, Lakeland, Tavares) Marmaladequat Meiwa Nagami Nippon Orangequat Procimequat Sunquat Marumi Lemon Lisbon Meyer Ponderosa Sanbokan Ujukitsu Lime Bearss Persian Grapefruit Bloomsweet Duncan Golden Marsh Oroblanco Pink Marsh Ruby Red Thompson Ichangensis Hybrids Ichang Papeda Ichang Lemon Sudachi Yuzu Yuzuquat Yuzvange Trifoliate Orange Standard Flying Dragon Rubidoux Trifoliate Hybrids Citrange (Morton, Troyer, Carizzo, Benton, Rusk, and etc.) Citrumello (Dunstan, Swingle, Changsha x English Large, USDA 80-5, and etc. Citradia Citrandarin (CiClem#10, Citsuma, and etc. Dragon Lime Complex Hybrids Citrangequat ( Thomasville, Sinton, etc.) Glen Citrangedin Razzlequat SancitChang US 119 2006 Citrus Exposition organizers and contacts: Ralph or Kathy Denton, Phone (757) 426-3677 e-mail at: palmlady@cox.net G. Ventura: e-mail ggvm30@aol.com