The 'Plant propagators Bible' by Miranda Smith,

states a cutting length of 10-13 cm for Chamaecyparis.

The only two methods listed for vegetative propagation of this same tree are Hardwood cuttings and Grafting.

Thanks. Ah so semi ripe cuttings don’t work when propagating hinoki cuttings... looks like I wasted time attempting this. But how can hardwood cutting be achieved when the first 10-13 cm of any shoots on this tree is a semi ripe green one? Maybe in early spring right before new growth starts growing I can take the cutting? Hopefully by then whether it’s late March or early April the shoots have hardened off

Yes, fully hardened off is the definition for "hardwood' cuttings.

Also, about 6 weeks of freezing or near freezing temperatures, in the late fall to winter, before you take your cuttings, are important when conifer rooting. They need a cold period of dormancy for best results.

Not that any of this would cause failure after 3 days. Something else must be causing that.

Did you put the heat mat sensor into the potting media, 1" from the bottom of the pot? If not, the mat may be running more than it should which may heat things up inside the tote.

Are you monitoring the ambient temperature inside the tote?

If your peat is turning a lighter brown, that's a sign of it drying out.

Bill, no I put the pots directly on it. Not sure what else you can put in between the heat mat and still have the heat reach to the pot especially if its an inch gap. I don't have a thermometer and although I have tried to look for them online on amazon, most of them wasn't what I was looking for and a lot of terrible reviews so I'm guessing most thermometers sold these days are inaccurate. I guess I can keep the windows open in my basement but I'm afraid it will turn the ambient temperature below freezing. I made sure it was not dry. It has been moist this past 4 days and I just watered it deeply again couple hours ago.

Jacob, thank you so much. That was the most informative and useful answer I've ever gotten in this forum and someone that actually understood exactly what I wanted advice on. Well good news is that when I took my cuttings this sunday I did take a portion(maybe an inch to half an inch) of the brown with the green as well. Although maybe half inch- 1 inch maybe too short, I will see how that works out. But wow, roots forming in 3 weeks? Thats super fast. I was told it would take at least 4 months for even the tiniest string of root to come out. I did end up putting ziplock bags over it though so that might help with the humidity and avoid having to mist it every hour since I'm not home every hour!

But if I do my math on taking the green, light brown, and dark brown that makes my cutting way over a foot... mine is a species chamaecyparis obtusa, not a dwarf or intermediate.. So if the new shoots(green portion) was about 8 inches, does that mean I have to take another 8 inches of the light brown(16 in) and then another 4 inches of dark brown?=20 inches. Something that long will probably not root

" Bill, no I put the pots directly on it. Not sure what else you can put in between the heat mat and still have the heat reach to the pot especially if its an inch gap. "

You misunderstood what I said. Or maybe I didn't say it right.

Your thermostat does have a heat sensor connected to it, doesn't it?

Oops I just re read it and now it makes sense. Yes I plug in the heat sensor in one of my pots probably about 2 inches in. Right about where the suction thingy gets submerged is where I leave it.

haha! Okay, wanted to bring that up, just in case.

I agree, Jacob posted some good information on his experiences. Interesting that false cypress is one of the earlier ones to start in the fall. You should be good to go on timing.

Wish mine would root that fast! :-)

Hey Heruga

You don’t need 4” of the oldest wood, just 1/4-1/2“ is fine. I don’t think anyone in my class used anything longer than about 10”. I’m not sure what to do with such a long cutting. You might have to cut off some of the newest growth. If the cuttings aren’t a cultivar why not just grow from seed? Also, if the cuttings are from an old tree they may be even more difficult to root.

As a side note even my teacher was surprised I had roots at 3 weeks. I asked why he thought they rooted so early and his guess was timing and juvenality. Cuttings are best taken from young healthy plants.

Well just to give you a background of the parent tree I took the cuttings from. This hinoki was originally a cultivar named 'Thoweil'. However, last year it started reverting back into the original species with the reversion foliage growing from the tip of the tree. So lower part of the tree was 'Thoweil' while the upper part became the species hinoki. So what I did was cut off all the 'Thoweil' foliage and left the species hinoki foliage on. So the first half of the trunk was all bare now. And so it kept growing and growing and right now it stands about 6 ft tall. I also recently transplanted it in October after it has been in the ground for 2 years. Not sure if the cuttings are bad quality because the tree was recently transplanted and might be undergoing stress.

I rather grow it from cuttings because its just much faster that way.

Just an update as it’s been 15 days now. So they are all still nice and green and the ‘browning’ I was talking about was apparently nothing... I went and looked at the parent plant again and most of the tips were of that color. None of my cuttings are browning any more than the color it was the first day I took the cuttings. My wooden chopsticks I stuck in the pot to keep the ziplock bag from touching the cuttings got so much mold though....

Thanks for the update.

Sounds like things are stable so that's a good thing.

Use nothing made of wood.

Update. It’s been exactly 2 months since I took the cuttings. All but one are still lush and green. Even if none roots, at least this is an improvement compared to last year where none of my cuttings lasted more than a month. I cover all of them with a ziplock bag. Just took it out to check watering

Definitely a BIG improvement from last year. Shouldn't be long now. Keep up the good work! :^)

they look great ...

you shouldnt need to take off bag to check for moisture .... you should be able to tell by weight of pot ... and humidity in bag ... but then... im glad you did.. for the pic ...

personally i fear electric and water ... i would put a tray of some sort under pots.. on top of heat pad .... something in the shape of a cookie sheet .. but not metal ... lol.. that would be worse .. conductive metal plus water .. plus electricity ... yikes ... a friend of mine who was a master electrician.. who did live electric work at a refinery ... where they couldnt not turn off stuff to work on it .... he called it the umph monster ... umph being the last thing you heard before you woke up 8 feet from where you were working.. if in fact you woke up ...

of course.. the metal rack just multiplies it all ... i hope your outlet is grounded ... if you want to up your game.. put some water on the floor.. and work in bare feet.. lol ...

work safe ... ken

Heruga, ken has a valid point.

Some heat mats are waterproof, most of the low cost ones are not!

Be sure to read the warnings printed right on the mat. Most say 'Never allow heat mat to come in contact with water or any other liquid'.

Putting a heat mat inside a humidity tent, or have pots with open bottoms coming in direct contact with the mat is a no no imo. (Even though it may be a waterproof mat, plastic can wear or crack with use allowing moisture to penetrate cords etc.).

Don't trust your life to a warranty that can't replace YOU.

Hmm, what kind of tray would still allow the heat to penetrate through it and reach the pot? It must also be very thin then right? You said cookie sheets, can I actually use that for this??

ken said: "something in the shape of a cookie sheet....but NOT metal". So no, no metal cookie sheets.

And plastic flat sheets would work, IF everything wasn't inside a humidity tent. I believe you are using a tent, correct?

Humidity tents surround everything inside with 'High Humidity'. So moisture will penetrate under the tray, between the mat and tray and onto the bottom of the mat itself along with the entire insides of the tent. So the mat will be residing in a very wet environment. This includes lighting. Lights and cords should always be outside the tent also.

I hear of people putting their heat mats on the floor and then put a plastic tote on top of the mat. The tote needs to be tall enough because the media and the plants and the water are all inside the tote. That way no moisture ever comes in contact with the heat mat. But the heat must penetrate the plastic tote eventually and the mat may run longer to heat all that plastic up each time.

Again putting anything electrical, even lights & cords, inside a humidity tent is dangerous and possibly deadly.

It is actually a humidity tent but I'm not using it for humidity purposes. The ziplock bags take care of the humidity. I'm just using the 'tent' because thats the only thing I can find in my house that has height where the cuttings can be elevated to be near the window for sun. All my cords or out of the tent so no worries there. The tent isn't even closed so no humidity will be trapped within. I'll try placing different things between the mat and pots while keeping an eye on the temps and see which one works best.

I'm not following this. If you have bags why do you also have a tent? What's its purpose? That white plastic object on the shelf below the cuttings looks like the lid of something. If you turn it upside down it would give you a plastic tray to put under your pots. Or use any plastic crate as Bill suggests above.

You can also buy plastic dish pans at the dollar store, which works a treat for something like this. Agree with floral, what looks like the lid to a plastic tote in the pic would also work.

Floral, did you not see this? I'm just using the 'tent' because thats the only thing I can find in my house that has height where the cuttings can be elevated to be near the window for sun.

I'm gonna try using that plastic lid.

Actually, if you turn your zip lock bags right side up, you can place the pots inside the bags, water them good and seal them up. That way, no water will be getting on the mat and you'll know the cuttings will always stay moist without constantly adding water.

Disinfect your bags with bleach + water mix before you put the pots in.

Hmm not a bad idea! But should I keep a little bit of an opening on the zip just so its not fully enclosed in the bag? Otherwise I fear this might lead to fungus issues.

I did see that, Heruga, but I have no idea what you mean. I'm still not understanding why you have a humidity tent and bags.

I leave mine closed.

Fungus spores can be in the bags or come in from the outside, floating through the air.

Once media and bags are sterilized, I like to slam the door on anything coming in from the outside.

If cuttings have spores in them from the wild, at the time you stick them, that mold can pop up anytime, with bags open or closed.

Yours are doing well after 2 months so they probably didn't have mold from the start.

But I can't promise they didn't pick up something since then, being exposed periodically.

My windows are up high and I want to place my cuttings as close as I can to the window. So in order to do that I need something with some height that I can place my cuttings onto so it’ll be closer to the window. And this tent I have was perfect because the height of it is right at level with the window. I didn’t have any other object high enough. Otherwise I would’ve had to stack random stuff just to create height. So it just happened to be a humidity tent. I’m not using it for humidity purposes whatsoever.

Thanks Bill. Didn’t know it was that crucial to Sterilize before taking cuttings. I will sterilize my bags and try that.

floral,

I think he's just using it for a stand or table. :o)

Heruga,

Yes, I sterilize media, pots and bags and all utensils. But yours is so far along now, I'd just make sure the bags are sterilized and hope for the best. :^)

i was browsing at the store.. and also saw a plastic bin lid.. and thought.. bingo ...

i dont know why you think heat wouldnt transfer thru most products .... especially something like a thin plastic lid ...

anyway.. my job is done.. i got you thinking about it all ... so i can sleep tongiht.. for lack of worrying about you ... dont worry ... that hasnt and wont happen ... lol

ken

ps: dollar store dish sink pans are a staple in my indoor gardening regimen ... if you dont own a couple.. you are missing out ... great for wetting media.. washing tools in bleach ... holding tools while not in use.. yadda.. .yadda ...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dollar+store+dish+sink+pans&t=ffcm&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

Right, Bill. It was the word 'tent' causing my confusion. My understanding of a tent is something soft, not something you can stand things on. Does he mean the stand and shelves it comes with perhaps?

floral,

If it's the same one I've seen in his other posts, it has 3-4 wire shelves, about 3 ft. tall and has a clear plastic hood that drops over the top and a zipper front. might even be on wheels. :0)

Are you having trouble seeing pictures?

I honestly have no idea what that thing is called but because Bill called it a humidity tent I just went with that. It does have 3 rows of shelves that can be used as a stand. Its about 6 ft tall. Doesn't have wheels. I used to call it a mini portable greenhouse.

Yes, I can see the pictures perfectly. It was the word 'tent' which was misleading me. I saw only green wire shelves, not a tent. To me the tent would be the plastic cover, which isn't in the photo. Unless it's that rolled back plastic at the top? That's why I thought Heruga meant he was using a tent over the bags and has removed it for the photo. If he is then it's unnecessary. Just use the shelves and remove the cover. It would reduce light as well as impeding air movement.

" Unless it's that rolled back plastic at the top? "

Yes, I've seen that cart before. so I guessed what it was when I saw the rolled up plastic at the top. And I agree, the less layers that the sunlight has to penetrate, the better. I'm assuming the sun has a default layer of window glass to begin with.

The tent cover is rolled up on the top and the sunlight is hitting it directly because I pretty much aligned my cuttings with the window. So none of that plastic is blocking any light

Still, nice to know after 2 months, things are looking good!

Keep us updated. :-)

a cafeteria tray on top of the heat mat ... would be impervious to water ... as would a tub mat .... think dollar store on mat ...

both would allow heat to come up thru ....

ken

Update: it’s been exactly three months since cuttings were inserted and all are still green except the one on the right is showing some browning on the lower foliage. I pulled that cutting out to see if anything was forming and I really can’t tell for sure. But I’m surprised that even after 3 months it still hasn’t took off yet. One question though. Was it bad that I pulled the cuttings out to check? Does that start the whole process over ?? Also does that browning on the lower foliage mean it’s dying?

Update: it’s been 4 months. Only 4 left and all still completely green. Could they have rooted already?? I think I’ve waited long enough... I saw a guy in planet conifer root a spruce with nice developed roots in 3 months. If he can root a pinaceae conifer in 3 months then why wouldn’t a conifer in the cuppressaceae family root in 4 months?

What's your hurry?

Find a bright shady place outside (after danger of frost has past of coarse) and keep them watered. Check on them around August. If they have roots, pot them up.

Not exactly in a hurry but if someone can have a spruce develop established roots in 3 months and seeing other people rooting cuppressaceae conifers in 2 months, why so long for my hinoki? I'm not trying to root a Japanese umbrella pine or anything for god sakes

You haven't told us what methods the others are using. Natural rooting of many conifers, where you just stick the cutting in soil and put bottom heat under them can take up to a year. You have to have very controlled conditions to do it as fast as 2 months, for crying out loud. :o)

If your's are still healthy and green, what have you got to lose if you keep them until summer? At least you still have a chance. Pulling them now and you know it's over and done and you'll always wonder 'what if?'.

If they die, that's different but if they are still alive, there's always a chance.

Your cuttings, your call but I'd think about it before you pull the pin. :-)

I have no idea what they're using I feel like I'm being left behind seeing all these other people rooting conifers and not me. Its like everyone in my elementary school class has their projects all done except me kind of feeling. True theres nothing to lose but I'm so anxious to know whether I did the right thing to root a chamaecyparis or not. How do all these other people know when to pull the cutting out of the pot? Do they just take the risk?

I know the feeling. ha ha! Been there done that.

One key to your question is quantity. If you had 15 or 20 cuttings per pot, you could pull one occasionally and call it 'no big deal' but when you're limited to 3 or 4, even 10, you don't have that luxury.

otoh: knowing you have roots starting is only part of the equation. Even those that know the roots have started, must wait. They wait until the roots are developed to the point the plant can survive by itself, in a normal environment and that can take months after the initial rooting starts. So in either case patience is necessary.

In your case, it's best to wait a reasonable amount of time. I've heard of people pulling their plants after 6 months only to find the very beginnings of a root. I am told that what you do in that case is.........wait........up to one year before considering potting them up. If you try to pot up too early, before roots are developed, they fail. Some conifers can take longer than others.

What I do is get other projects going. I'm not as prone to focus on my cuttings that way. I did peak through the plastic the other night and noticed some of my Hemlock cuttings have new growth on them over 1/2" long. I'm thinking it has been too warm for them where they are but I'm still going to wait. I looked at the Thuja and Junipers and they look more normal. And nothing appears to be molding. I may do an update this week by pulling one in each pot for examination. But I'm riding this one to the end and if they live and look healthy, They're going into a tote out side for the summer. At least then you don't need bottom heat anymore and humidity can be less of an issue.

Patience . . . We seem to say that a lot to you, Heruga. Remember that plants do things on their time, not yours. You are comparing apples to oranges and getting frustrated because they haven’t done things on the schedule you want them to follow. Gardening is supposed to be enjoyable, not an added stressor in your life.

Take Bill’s advice to find a spot outside with bright shade once it warms up, and find other projects and just forget about them until fall. They will either root or they won’t but throwing them out or pulling them before they die won’t teach you anything about how long it takes to root this particular plant under the particular conditions you have provided.

So it’s been 5 months 2 days. Still green and no signs of mold At the base . I hope I’m going in the right direction. If its still perfectly green by 5 months does It mean it pushed out at least a root or 2? I don’t plan on pulling yet but just want to know what 5 months of still green Is indicating.

' does It mean it pushed out at least a root or 2? '

No, not at all. But staying green means they're not dead yet. So they still have a chance of responding to built in survival stimuli that are inside their chromosomes. When that starts exactly, no one can say.

Once a year goes by or if they turn brown and crispy, then you can surmise they probably aren't going to root and inspect them.

Didn't David Olszyk comment on one of your threads where he said he waits until August and then inspects everything and then pots what has roots and discards everything else?

Yes I remember his comment on that but all I wanted to know was whether a root or two could have pushed out by 5 months, in which you answered. I will wait until summer but I'm not sure where all this information and some people telling me chamaecyparis will root in 2-3 months is coming from. If it really takes 8 months for these guys to root, why aren't there more sciadopitys cuttings done?

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's entirely possible that your green cutting has made some roots by now, or at least started in the process. It's just that staying green is not an indication of that.

Cuttings can stay green for an awful long time and still not show any signs roots. Ask me how I know. :o)

And I'm not say it takes 8 months to begin rooting. I am saying that in 8 or 9 month, you'll have a good chance, if not your best chance of a pleasant surprise when you do wash the soil off and see what's happening at the end of your cuttings. If nothing happens by then, they are probably out of enough energy to progress any further. imo.

I would really like to see the process people are using, who are telling you 2-3 months is the norm for this. You should find out and do it the same way they are doing it. Even easy to root plants like Thuja occidentalis can easily take that long and that's if conditions are perfect.