The stringent guidelines and oversight for anyone marketing what they declare to be organic is probably the reason why some are being deceitful. And I'm not condoning it, just commenting on it. Any farmer or food producer who claims to be organic has to be inspected constantly and meet and pass strict guidelines to gain certification. Since this raises the price of the product I can see why unscrupulous people take advantage in order to make more money for what they grow or produce. I have a feeling that a lot those out there who are paying for what they think is organic are being duped.

When people talk about organic most do not know what can and cannot be used to grow them. There are so many dangerous chemicals that are allowed.

What these farmers did was to lie on the paperwork.

Did they lie on the paperwork? Technically, no. Any material grown by a plant is "organic". The problem is the misuse of the word, organic. I believe what was intended was herbicide and pesticide free plus unmodified DNA by lab, or maybe it was only unmodified DNA. Whatever the case, we need a word to describe this recent specification instead of distorting the meaning of the word, organic, that has been in use for some time.

jemdandy there are very few organic farms that do not use herbicide and pesticides. This is one of the myths that people keep telling themselves that with a little research they will find it is untrue.

Anyway, I remember him telling me to never buy anything that says it's organic because you specifically want or need organic.

I am kind of confused here, if you want or need organic how can you buy it other than buying whatever is labeled as organic?

Re. the fraud, I've read plenty of times that organic certification is very expensive and there are stringent requirements and inspections. I think part of the problem is that, rather than produce being grown locally or at least with a reasonable distance, we now have huge growing conglomerates and many overseas imports. So oversight is much more difficult than it used to be when it was basically farm to table.

"jemdandy there are very few organic farms that do not use herbicide and pesticides. This is one of the myths that people keep telling themselves that with a little research they will find it is untrue."

And I would counter that this statement is equally untrue :-) To receive any sort of "organic" certification, a farm must go through an extensive period of non-use of any unapproved pesticides and present a plan that outlines practices and prodcuts to be used. And once they are certified, they must go through annual inspections, including collecting samples for residue testing to make sure they are adhering to their plan and the products used.

And there are many products that are approved for organic growing/certification that one would not expect to be a natural or organic product (unless you knew otherwise) and almost as many that are a natural or organic product that are not approved!!

Seems to me it is the company that purchased this grain that did not do their due diligence with the growers. They should have asked for evidence of organic certification and a copy of the most recent inspection........

Gardengal it seems to me that fraud is pretty easy, while there are strict inspections, all that can easily be bypassed by paperwork and a little corruption. There are obviously places along the line from production to final sale where people can pull a fast one, and we as ultimate consumers just won't know it happened. The article points out that this one scheme netted over 10 million, when that kind of money talks, a lot of people listen.

The news is full of stories about other switches in foods, one kind of fish being substituted for another, spices made with sawdust and bugs included, different grades of beef substituted for one another, and all that, so I myself would not pay extra money for foods grown a certain way unless I knew the grower or the store knew the grower.

I myself do not spend money on organic and so far I have not had any problem I know of with foods. ( Although I'm sure I've gotten one thing when I thought I had bought something different, especially with the array of different spices I purchase.)

gardengal you wrote exactly what I was talking about. I mentioned that people have the idea that no pesticides or herbicides are used on organic farms then you wrote "non-use of any unapproved pesticides". Your statement does not mean that there are not "approved" pesticides.

For myself, I would rather eat foods that haven't been sprayed with pesticides. Every week I go to our local Farmers Market and I get a week's worth of all locally-grown, no-spray/organic vegetables, fruit, eggs. I also have Celiac, so I don't buy breads/wheat products, so no issues there. I like to eat as 'clean' as possible. The way our ancestors used to eat before pesticides started being used.

The way our ancestors used to eat before pesticides started being used

I think some of our ancestors might have ended up not eating, if the pests got it all. While I do think it is true that in a varied home garden one won't lose everything, at least I never did, I'm also sure that there are times that until homeostasis is achieved, there might be seasons when the score was bugs 5, humans 0.

"Your statement does not mean that there are not "approved" pesticides."

Of course not. But you do realize that there are a great many natural or fully organic pesticides?? Did you actually think that certified organic farmers would use nothing to assist their crops?? Not everything that is a pesticide is some sort of potentially toxic chemical concoction....vinegar is a moderately effective herbicide; fixed copper, baking soda, milk and hydrogen peroxide are all fungicides; neem oil is an insecticide, fungicide and miticide. And then there is the whole revolution in biopesticides...........

I'm unsure if organic will help protect us from cancer at some point in the future, but I'm willing to spend a little more money to possibly change the odds. I think most of us know many people or have loved ones with cancer and other diseases. Who knows if they could be from the food we eat that is adulterated?

I believe organic methods, from conscientious organic growers, are better for the Earth, the soil, the water, bees and other critters. It also provides a safer workplace for agricultural workers. I think unscrupulous growers expose farmworkers to harmful chemicals and I don't want to support that. I buy local, from small farmers when I can. And from the food co-op and other markets that vet their sources of food.

(sorry for the weird formatting. my computer keeps highlighting portions of what I type, usually deleting them, but this post ended up on some weird pinterest page as a picture that I couldn't edit so I had to do a screen shot of the first part in order to post it without having to retype it all)

Garden insect control is a problem and humans often turn to chemicals. However, nature has its ways and these can be efficient. When I was a kid down on the farm, Mom had a couple of gooseberry bushes in the garden. We desired to make pies with these berries, but an infestation of small caterpillars foiled our game. Each year, those worms would eat half the leaves off the plant and destroy the crop of berries. Then one year, a pair of starlings arrived who used these caterpillars to feed their young. That year, the score was birds 5, caterpillars 0, and humans got to eat gooseberry pie. For several years thereafter, nesting starlings came to our place and after 3 years, these caterpillars were gone for good.

But you do realize that there are a great many natural or fully organic pesticides??

Some natural substances are some of the most toxic known, just because it is natural does not mean it is safe.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/natural-vs-synthetic-chemicals-is-a-gray-matter/