Cabinet layout - what do you think?

5 years ago

I'm doing a kitchen reno (really a half house renovation when you include the playroom, laundry, half bath, and bar we're also redoing), and we just got our cabinet layout back. I'd love your thoughts on everything.

The first picture is the bird's eye view. When you come into the side door of the house, you walk into a small hallway and then into the kitchen from the doorway by the refrigerator. The doorway by the sink wall goes into the den. The pantry is to the left (that you can't see) and our kitchen table and chairs will also be in the part that isn't pictured.

This is the sink wall. We will have two shelves instead of three.

This is the range wall. We will be flipping the upper cabinets so that the cabinet pairs are next to range hood and then the singles will be next to the pairs on the outside.

This is the fridge wall. The countertop will continue into the appliance garage so the appliances in there will be on the counter, just enclosed.

There is a second trash pullout in the island facing the sink. The microwave will also be in the island (just a countertop model on a shelf) along with two spice pullouts on the side facing the range wall.

Thanks so much for any thoughts you have.

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salliekate2
Original Author

5 years ago

Thanks for all your thoughts/comments! I requested that the microwave be where it is because I like it hidden. And in my current kitchen I have one oven and a microwave and frequently need another oven.

As for my prep area, it will be to the right of the sink and to the left of the range top (where it is currently). Since it's right by the sink, I didn't see a need for a prep sink. I thought about putting the trash can on the range wall, but that locks it in at the back of the kitchen, making it more difficult for kids to run in and throw something away from the playroom.

I had not thought about opening the fridge while someone was sitting at the island! Duh! I just laid out paper in the shape of the island and to mimic the where the perimeter cabinets will be. I think if I eliminate one of the spice pullouts in the island (which gains 5 inches at least), and shift the island over toward the sink a smidge, we can get close to a 48" aisle between the island and the fridge.

The pots and pans pullout is actually a drawer. The cabinet doors pull out together instead of like regular doors. They just look like doors to break up all of the drawers on the wall.

I'm going to keep mulling and talk it all over with my designer. Balancing what I want (four seats at the island, large fridge/freezer, hidden microwave) and what actually works is harder than I thought it would be!

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Comments (16)

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Debbi Washburn
5 years ago
It's not a horrible layout... I wish there was not seating in front of the ref. If there are people sitting there and you have to get into one or the other someone is going to have to move - especially since they are full 30" doors swinging!

I would suggest getting with an experienced kitchen designer and letting her play with some layouts to show you options...

I would look into getting rid of the "return walls on the ref run and the sink run. This will make the "hall" feel like part of the kitchen. Then make the island a little bigger and pull it out from the kitchen . Rearrange the seating so that there is not as much issue being in the way...

Looks like you are on the right path!

Good luck!
artistsharonva
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
in general,good layout.

I think the island seating needs to be reconfigured. or at least be aware of...

Those big freezer & fridges are great, just keep in mind the door swing is big,too.

So, if anyone needs to get in fridge if people sitting there it will be congested.
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Hi celticmoon, thanks for weighing in. It's tricky because we're trying to be very careful not to overcapitalize. While we are in a nice neighborhood, it is still just a townhouse. And while we are very happy here for now, it's unlikely to be our forever-home. So we're trying to get the maximum bang-for-the-buck. I've been in several of the other townhouses in our neighborhood. Many of them have not been remodeled, but all the ones I've seen that have been remodeled have more or less retained this layout (in terms of walls, closet, sink and range). Most of them (both original and remodeled) have the fridge on the other side, often with just a table & chairs in the 60'' corner or in one case a kitchen desk. I'm not saying that this is therefore the best layout, just that it's the most commonly used. We had figured that putting counters and cabinets there would at least be an improvement in utility over a table and chairs. While one could argue that putting in a better layout would be a potential selling point in the future, I'm not sure that it would recoup the costs. I think that if we were planning to stay here forever, then maybe it would be worth going all out to get the best possible layout. But given our situation, we are really just trying to get an updated kitchen that looks inviting, with more functional storage space and appliances that don't smell like they're about to catch fire :) That being said, I am still considering all other suggestions very carefully and weighing the pros and cons. In some cases I'm finding that there seems to be a big difference between what looks best on paper and what seems like it would feel right when standing in the room. Has anyone else found this, or is it just me? I'm thinking it might be to do with the natural light that doesn't come across in drawings. I like your idea of blocking out the counter space with boxes as a test run. We generally tend to use the space between the sink and the range as our main prep space. Currently we use the space to the right of the range mostly as a landing space for getting things out of the cabinets above (where we store the food) and out of the fridge opposite. We also have our toaster here and use other small appliances here, as well as prepping things that don't involve the sink or the range. So in that sense I had figured that a counter on the opposite side would be used in much the same way. And we would still have 18'' on the right of the range. I will definitely take a closer look though at the idea of putting a CD fridge in its current location and see how that would work out. If we were to keep this general footprint though, what do you think of the cabinet choices?
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Have you considered swapping sink and DW, and widening the window? That would give you more room between sink and range for prep. As it is, you have very little room for that and an angled counter to contend with, too. My current kitchen has a long stretch of counter but it isn't between sink and cook top. I only have 16" on either side of my cook top. I end up prepping in multiple places; it's inefficient and frustrating. When we remodel (hope to start soon, yay!) I will gain a 42" span of counter between sink and cook top. I can not wait! Are you still going with IKEA cabs? I didn't realize they had an 18" wide cab. Anyhoo, here's a slight tweak to your plan, aimed at giving you more counter between sink and range. It also will MOL center the sink and window on the upper wall. Here's what I did: Swapped sink and DW placement Widened the sink wall window Adjusted the cabs to the left of the sink Added a spacer between far left cab and wall so drawers will clear door molding Added a spacer between DW and blind corner cabinet so an open DW door will clear the rnage. Swapped out angled corner cabinet for blind corner cabinet. You can go with IKEA's cab with the pull-out organizer or you can purchase a Rev-a-Shelf pull-out organizer (may give you more usable storage space). See link below. I moved the 2" spacer you had to the right of the range to the left of the range and grew it an inch to allow for 48" of upper cabs and to give a bit more clearance to open the DW (when open, mine extends 26.25" out from the face of the base cab next to it.) Obviously, this extends the range wall cabs an inch towards the doorway. I didn't calculate the clearance between range wall cabs and fridge wall cab. I swapped out the 24" base and upper cabs next to the fridge for a 24" pull-out pantry to make up for the loss of upper cab space due to wider window. While the sink and window are MOL centered on that top wall, I opted not to add an upper to the right of the sink. That avoids the dreaded blind corner. However, you could add an upper if symmetry is critical for you. You could also widen the window even more. Or fill the space with artwork or decorative plates. Here are some images with different treatments on each side of the sink window. [[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/100-square-foot-kitchen-remodel-craftsman-kitchen-minneapolis-phvw-vp~5402770) [Craftsman Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/craftsman-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2116) by Minneapolis Architects & Building Designers David Heide Design Studio [[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/custom-kitchen-eclectic-kitchen-toronto-phvw-vp~1765282) [Eclectic Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/eclectic-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2104) by Barrie Kitchen & Bath Remodelers Madison Taylor [[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/annas-sunny-vintage-kitchen-victorian-kitchen-portland-phvw-vp~2960708) [Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Portland Design-Build Firms Arciform [[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/vintage-barn-frame-addition-to-dutch-stone-house-traditional-kitchen-boston-phvw-vp~4037746) [Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Chatham Architects & Building Designers KATE JOHNS AIA [[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/integrity-windows-and-doors-traditional-kitchen-phvw-vp~13972916) [Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Palo Alto Windows Integrity Windows and Doors If you haven't already done so, do a tally of what you own and need to store in your kitchen and check that each will fit where you think it will. Is a 3" spacer between wall and 15" pantry cab enough space for the pantry cab doors to clear the baseboard heater? Your drawing makes it look like it won't but I don't know if the baseboard heater placement on your drawing is where it will be IRL. What kind of door handle do you have on your back door? Is it a knob? And if so, is it high enough so that you can pull the drawer out of the cab near the door? I just checked my door knobs and they are at 36", which is counter height so this shouldn't be an issue but I wanted to make sure you checked this now and not discover an uh-oh later. Pity IKEA doesn't offer a 30" sink base so that you could gain a bit more counter and cab storage. Maybe there's an IKEA hack that will allow you to take a 30" base cab and use it as a sink base. Here is a link that might be useful: Rev-a-Shelf Blind Corner Pull-out
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First, I am so sorry for your loss! I can only imagine how difficult it must be for you now. But at least you're carrying on a dream you both had! Hopefully, we can help you with the "bouncing off" part...at least partially since we, of course, could never replace him! I prefer #1. No, I don't like OTR MWs either. However, there are other considerations as well: Oven. I have found that a wall oven is so much easier to work with than a range. I'm probably of an age w/you and while I've had ranges all my life, when I started using our wall oven a few months ago I was so happy at how much easier it was to use...not just taking things out, but also being able to check on something w/o having to open the door or practically get on the floor to see inside! Island. You have an island in front of the refrigerator & ovens. In my kitchen, I have landing space both on the side (right next to) and in front of my ovens and a wall on one side (similar to yours). 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If you are basing it on an existing refrigerator, check to see how much space new refrigerators need as yours will not last forever and you will eventually have to replace it. I would recommend at least 33-1/2" of space there. It may mean reducing the counter to the left of the range to 24", but that's still enough workspace, I think, especially as you will have an island in front of it for prep/workspace as well. If you already have a refrigerator in mind, is that enough space for it? Do you think you might get a larger one in the future? I don't really know the future of refrigerators. I have noticed that they appear to be getting taller, but I don't know about width. They could go either way. Sink Wall. Consider doing the sink wall w/the longer distance b/w the cooktop & sink (15" drawers b/w the corner cab & sink). You don't want them too close together for two people working there. 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This is just curiosity...do you plan an undermount or drop in sink? The pic shows drop in. Speaking as someone who had drop in all her life and now has an undermount...I will never go back to drop in! It's so much easier to clean around and there's no rim for crumbs, etc. to catch on or to clean under/around. I hope this all helps! Keep us posted on your kitchen. And remember, we're here for you if you have any questions or just need someone to vent to! Good luck!
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salliekate2
Original Author
5 years ago
Do y'all think deleting a spice pull out and shrinking the island a little to widen the aisle by the fridge/freezer will make it work better?
User
5 years ago
Obstacle Island, without adequate clearances. Poor traffic flow. And needs a prep sink, and the working side of the island switched. Obviously designed by someone selling you cabinets. Many poor choices of space organization and dollar allocation per utility.
artistsharonva
5 years ago
It's a start.

I would 1st determine exactly how much thefridge/freezer needs to open fully + walkway spacing & or how much space from back of chair with person sitting is needed. Then I would design an island within that perimeter.

I would make sure the designer & installer gets the installation instructions to verify the exact spacing needed for full door swing.

It would look something like this.
zmith
5 years ago
I think your microwave placement could create issues. But it really depends on how it will be used. If for reheating leftovers, then maybe it needs to be closer to the refrigerator.

I think you should not have seating between the refrigerator and the island, and move the microwave cabinet to face the refrigerator.
chocolatebunny123
5 years ago
I'm not an expert, but in addition to what's been said above, I don't like your trash pullout next to your dishwasher because it's too far away from your main prep area, which I am assuming will be the island.
blfenton
5 years ago
Rethink switching the upper cabinet configuration on either side of the range. Leave the singles by the stovetop unless you have a specific reason for doing so.

If you decide to keep oils, spices, other cooking ingredients by the stovetop you will be opening the doors into your face and have to step around them to see in. By leaving the singles then you open the doors away from your face and you can see and reach straight into the cupboards.

i agree with no seating by the fridge/freezer. It was the first thing I noticed.

I'm concerned about where you plan to prep -

- you want your trash pullout by your prep area and not way off in a corner. The one you have planned is fine for cleanup but not for prep.

- if you plan on prepping between the range and sink you're quite far from the fridge.

- why do you need 3 ovens - a double and a microwave. Make one of the double ovens a combo and put a prep sink and trash pullout in your island. Then prep is between stovetop/island prep sink and fridge. Cleanup is between stovetop and window sink,

- Your pots/pans cupboards, make those drawers (not rollouts but actual drawers), you will thank me and others who will tell you to do that forever.

- open shelving - unless you have some beautiful bowls to show off they will be a pain in the butt to keep clean,

Others will come along and give you some really brilliant ideas. Listen to them
gallagk
5 years ago
I would be bruising my hip on that island working in this kitchen. It’s in the way for how I work. Not a fan of open shelves. You’ve got great space to work with, unlike me. Good luck.
raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
5 years ago
Everything just seems too spread out and not very logical.

I wouldn't want my trash on the far side of the dishwasher from the sink (do you compost? recycle? Where will those be?), and I wouldn't want my one and only sink on the opposite side of the room, with a barrier island in between, from the frig and freezer.

If you are going to have a "kitchen table and chairs" just steps away, what purpose is the island seating going to serve?

I love the idea of a big spice cupboard, but it is too far away from the stove for the way that I cook! Likewise, spice pullouts are a great way to use space that would otherwise be wasted (I have one for that reason) but I would find it more convenient (again, because I often decide on seasoning as I am cooking) to have the spices next to the stove instead of having to turn away from the stove to get some. Just something to think about, as you think about the way you cook and want to move around the space.

Do spend time imagining preparing and cooking your typical and your most involved meals -- what would you find most efficient? Then think about everything that you have to store, (not just dishes, cutlery and pots, but towels, napkins, storage containers, colanders, wraps, coffee supplies, baking sheets, snacks, dog food) and where it would be handiest to have them.

Oh, don't think that your drawers/cupboards need to be symmetrical/matchy -- no one will notice if they are not; it is better to have a practical, efficient use of space. So it might be better to have 3 drawers on one side of the stove, and 4 smaller drawers on the other.

And, triple yes to changing the cupboards with pullouts to drawers-- drawers are amazingly more convenient.
emilyam819
5 years ago
You said you prep between the sink and stove and that is ideal. HOWEVER, the fridge is too far from the sink and the island is in the way. It is dysfunctional. That is why you need a prep sink on the island to create a triangle between sink, fridge, and range. The sink under the windows would be a cleanup sink and the island seating would need to be flipped as so many have said.

Or do an L shape + island to get the fridge on the working sink side of the kitchen.

Are the windows able to be changed? Can we see more of the first floor?
User
5 years ago
A peninsula would work better than the island. The island is a problem. As are the oversized refrigeration.
muskokascp
5 years ago
Start with addressing proper work flow in the kitchen, which you do not have, then move on to seating and aisle clearances. The sink is clear across the kitchen from the fridge with the range between them. Work flow is fridge, sink range. adding a prep sink to the island would solve this issue. See this thread :

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first-dsvw-vd~2699918
salliekate2
Original Author
5 years ago
Thanks again for all the comments. I have stood in the space and mapped everything out with tape. I totally agree that the island is too big. We're working on resizing it now.

I feel like a prep sink would be overkill (maybe just because I've never had one), but I'll stand in the space again and imagine having one to see if it feels more efficient to how I will work in the kitchen.

Oh, and the lower cabinets on the range wall are drawers. They just look like cabinet fronts. The pull out as a unit just like a drawer would, and there is a hidden second drawer inside.

Here's a picture of the original layout we were working with. We have made changes (like the fridge/freezer size) based on what works for our family and how we move and work in the kitchen.

The window over the sink is where it is. It can't really be moved due to stuff on the exterior and how the house is situated.
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Debbi Washburn
5 years ago
Seems like a tighter kitchen space considering the rest of the size of the house. That hall behind the ref wall - can that are be reworked into the kitchen space? I feel like that is causing the challenge in the kitchen. It's not a horrible plan... and it will look beautiful... you just want to be sure of the function.

Pretend you are making a major holiday meal and there are people sitting around your island with people standing behind them chatting - can you get everywhere you need to get while cooking? If you don't entertain that much then thats a different story but you always have to plan around someone sitting in the seats...

Good luck! Keep us posted

Cabinet layout - what do you think?

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