Woa, I had missed QAnon. That is pretty far out there. I would have thought nobody could believe such things. No, my friend from above would not believe that. Though, I will double check.

Choosing to rant at all to an unsympathetic audience plus the content of the rant would both have me switching because both betray lack of judgment.

I would (and have done) switch professionals even for distasteful comments because I’d rather give my $$ to someone I respect who doesn’t stress me out.

I agree with many of the responses here. My take is that if you can easily find an as good replacement, than quietly leave. Unless you consider him a friend outside of his practice I don't think you need to give an explanation. If he realizes you are gone or is alerted to it by staff and contacts you, you can tell him as much as you feel comfortable with.

Although I can agree with Jojo, that he could have been like this all along, there is a chance that this is a new development and maybe along with this way of thinking, his skills might go be going downhill too.

Bottomline, we all need to feel comfortable with our doctors. It is not a social visit, but a medical one. Their role is our health care and it is very serious and important one.

wow. I don't think I'd have lasted through the entire appointment. And here I was all upset that my long-time dental hygienist spent my last visit making political observations and telling me that she watches FOX because the other outlets are FAKE NEWS. :(

It's interesting that as this "conversation" unfolded, I really didn't perceive it so much political as just wacky. It went from general agreement that pedophilia and human trafficking are terrible problems that society needs to confront. But then it shifts to all of Hollywood is a pedophile ring led by none other than Tom Hanks and Stephen Speilberg. Um, what?

So, while he may be able to deliver excellent healthcare for me in the future, I think I will always question his judgement in light of this new information. It is not about his politics but that he is so gullible and susceptible to crazy stuff he reads on a wild consipiracy theory website like QAnon. I prefer my healthcare providers to be grounded in evidence-based decision making.

Thanks all -

What I have found in this climate is that there are some people who I just never be able to be really friendly with ever again. It really goes beyond political differences to something at the core of some people. (Try having a friend who believed that Obama might be the anti-Christ, in all seriousness).

The thing is ---- regardless of whether you had time to take literature, social science, or history classes while preparing for a career in medicine ---- if you are a health professional, you are supposed to practice medicine and make medical decisions based on evidence gained from the scientific method. So, I'd seriously worry about his medical competence. (On the other hand, I guess he's on trend with evidence-based and science-based now dirty words).

I just see, ruby, that you posted what I said. Totally agree with you. Time to find another doctor.

Can I just say how much I am DREADING the next election cycle which will probably start ramping up in January or so??? The country is already so bitter and nasty...I literally cannot imagine how horrible it is going to get before the 2020 election. I was a Poli Sci major in college and used to get so excited for elections. Now I want to go live under a rock for 18 months before Nov 2020. :(

I had to look up what QAnon was. I find it unbelievable ( but do believe you) that anyone would have this kind of conversation with a patient. Is there any chance he was just messing with you? Did you perhaps make an unknowingly far left comment that set him off? Not that I think that would be any kind of reason to intentionally run you off. Very strange.

I do not have a problem with hearing opposing political views from a medical professional. Or even opposing interpretations of information. For example, lots of folks disagree on how to hold down medical costs and I have heard some pretty illogical reasoning from a nurse friend of mine on how "Obama" is all to blame for this. It's illogical for me because I have been self insured for over a decade, both before, during and after Obama was president and the passage of the AHCA, so the cost of medical treatment and insurance for me has been an ongoing subject of concern and something I have spent a lot of time researching. Different people have different perspectives depending on where they live, what insurance coverage options are available to them, and what the level of medical services that are available in their communities. So I don't mind people differing on their perspectives on what the best course of action might be to keep down costs and provide good medical care for society. And the fact that this nurse blamed "Obama" for things he had nothing to do with just meant to me, she was showing prejudice. But not necessarily affecting her medical judgements since she was talking about costs, not treatments. People compartmentalize their minds and also what they research and know about. Also, people compartmentalize information. As a teacher, I know it is possible to hold on to information in one part of your brain that completely contradicts information in another part of your brain and never be able to resolve the conflict, just go with whatever suits your emotional needs at the time.

However, if I heard completely illogical stuff coming from someone about wild conspiracy theories that I know full well are not even slightly grounded in fact, well that would cause me to wonder about their medical advice. Scientists just don't talk like that even in casual conversation about other topics. But again, people can and do compartmentalize. In my community, finding a lucid and highly competent doctor is a real challenge, so I might not have the luxury of finding someone else better. But I would really wonder where that doctor was getting his medical information after hearing something like that, and also wonder how up to date he was on it as well.

I am a dentist. We have always advised our staff to never discuss religion or politics with patients. It is just a bad idea. I am liberal, but practice in an area where the majority of our patients are conservative. I'm talking about not discussing normal political or religious ideals, not this crazy stuff. If I went to a health professional and heard this, I could never go back to them. I would find their judgement questionable, to say the least.

When 45 was in Tampa recently for a rally, I was surprised how many of his supporters were wearing "Q" tee shirts. (I was not at the rally, just going by photos and videos).

When I mentioned, on Facebook, seeing these shirts I was shocked at the number of people who defended the organization.

What is happening to this country? Do people want to believe crazy theories so they jump on the bandwagon? Is it because people keep hearing the words "Fake News" so they have lost all trust?

That said, I never ever thought I would hear that 300 Catholic clergy in one state would be named in child abuse cases either.

jt - he and I have never discussed politics so I had no idea how he identified politically nor did he have a clue about me. And yes, for a moment I thought I was being pranked it was so strange. So to answer your question, no, I don't believe I said anything that set him off and I don't believe he was trying to run me off.

maddielee - That said, I never ever thought I would hear that 300 Catholic clergy in one state would be named in child abuse cases either.

Very true.

It's simply not necessary in most professional settings to discuss politics or religion. I have no idea how the majority of my colleagues vote or pray (or if they do at all), and I have no desire to know. It's in no way relevant to what we gather to do on a daily basis, and I would imagine that holds true for the majority of workplace environments. I've really started to view people who cannot keep their mouths shut about their personal leanings as great big blowhards, and the fact that they would rather risk offending and alienating others than keep their opinions to themselves shows a marked lack of maturity and self-control. (I'm not talking about forum talk, but in those "real life" relationships, where you have to actually see and interact with the other people on a recurring basis -- particularly where your livelihood depends on good interpersonal skills.) It's one thing to vent among those who are like-minded, but when you don't know, you should never assume that colleagues or clients are on the same page. That's a fool's game.

DD is currently training to be a health professional. They are taught not to engage in talk about politics. On the flip side, even if patients say extremely racist things, they are not to respond.

While I think the idea that a professional should act and speak in a professional manner is an excellent one, I think I would rather know that they ascribe to wacky, potentially dangerous beliefs than remain ignorant of that fact.

Not only that, this also seems to be an instance of a lack of appropriate boundaries on the part of that Dr., which is also a big red flag.

This might be reading too much into the situation as he has been your doctor for so many years. My concern would be his ability to continue to give me adequate care should he no longer believe in some aspects of medicine as a result of conspiracy theories for eg vaccinations.

I wonder if he could be suffering some kind of mental problems?

I just found this post on Hot Topics about how the Qanon thing happened and what it is. It is quite a breath-taking read.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5443195/how-three-conspiracy-theorists-took-q-and-sparked-qanon#n=0

I completely agree that the doctor was out-of-line to discuss this with you. Doctors are supposed to respect boundaries, and politics are a subject with barbed-wire fencing around them, especially these days. Don't go there!

However, on the issue of just how strange QAnon is. A couple of examples:

Supposing a person had never heard of anything connected to religion, never heard of God, of an afterlife, etc., etc. And his doctor suddenly began talking about this wonderful belief: that a man who lived 2000 years ago performed miracles such as walking on water and raising the dead, and was then nailed to a cross, died, was buried, arose from the dead after three days, spent forty days wandering around contacting family and friends, and then climbed a hill with a few friends and as they watched, swirled up into the sky, and joined his Father, and that now they preside over the universe, while those who believe in them go to an eternal paradise and those who don't burn in eternal flames. His heart surgeon believes that. What would this person think?

Or a woman goes to her attorney and he starts telling her that because of a book written 2500 years ago, he can't eat a pork chop, or have a milkshake with his burger (can't even have a burger unless the cow has been slaughtered according to rigorous ritual), can't turn on or off any form of any power source from Friday to Saturday evenings, not a cell phone or the tv or the car or the living room lights, cannot tear a piece of toilet paper but instead must use pre-torn paper, cannot in fact do any kind of work including writing or typing anything, can indeed milk his cows but that's the only "work" he's permitted, all because he's an Orthodox Jew. And she expects him to go into court and win her case using his brilliant logic, with which he has been trained to question everything.

I'm not writing these examples to offend anyone; I have Christian and Jewish family and friends whose beliefs I deeply respect; in fact, went from Christian to Jewish myself. But imo it's all right to admit that our personal beliefs may look quite odd to those on the outside. Muslims, e.g., revere Jesus as a prophet but regard the story of his being God incarnate, dying and being resurrected, with horror.

IMO the Q is fairly weird, seeing conspiracy everywhere as it does, but I would certainly deal with people who are Q-ers. Are they a cult? It appears so. But do we all know what our doctors and teachers privately believe?

There's more to say, but this is long enough. Sorry!

I occasionally look at obituaries and as one thing leads to another I came upon the obituary of a contemporary of mine whose real name I recognized. Since he was young I did some further looking and found out that he was the prolific author of books about various conspiracy theories his favorite of which seem to be about pacts made between the Clintons and the devil and how many people the Clintons have had murdered or have personally murdered themselves.

Of course because he died suddenly, there are now books by fellow theorists that he was himself murdered by the Clintons.

It's interesting, because on some level I don't have trouble believing that one can sell ones soul to the devil (how else to explain the success of Tom Cruise, for example); and I have no trouble believing that a powerful person could have someone who got in their way murdered. (I live in a mob town where this sort of thing went on regularly). But I do have trouble with the great masses of people who are supposedly complicit with all this activity for no apparent reason or benefit to themselves. And of course it's much easier to believe these theories about persons or groups with whom your views differ.

The other issue is that there are always kernels of Truth in these theories that makes parts of the theory plausible. I just worry about the climate being such that so many more people are accepting these theories as the truth. But maybe it's always been this way and it used to be harder for the believers to find and communicate with each other before the internet.

Rita - thanks for that link. It is quite fascinating and I can certainly understand someone getting caught up in these conspiracy theories especially given the game-like intrigue in the way they are presented. But I don't understand the suspension of disbelief required to accept these as the truth.

pal - I just worry about the climate being such that so many more people are accepting these theories as the truth. Me too.

sable - I appreciate your perspective and the point you are making.

Sable's post has me thinking that QAnon worships trump because they see him as a savior, so it is like a religious experience for them. I never thought of it that way before but many trump supporters have tendencies to see him as savior. In trying to protect trump from the Mueller investigation, QAnon has given him a role as savior and claims he is working with Mueller to bring down the Deep State. Like any religion that worships a prophet or savior, QAnon is a cult, but it goes beyond a wacky belief in conspiracy theories. I think they are more like Scientology members. I hope the cult doesn't outlive trump's presidency but I see that as a possibility. I also see trump exploiting it because of his narcissism.

C'mon, man. Tom Hanks is evil? And Trump is a good guy? Stop the damn world. I want off.

Where did Tom Hanks come in, I am confused.

Above: It's interesting that as this "conversation" unfolded, I really didn't perceive it so much political as just wacky. It went from general agreement that pedophilia and human trafficking are terrible problems that society needs to confront. But then it shifts to all of Hollywood is a pedophile ring led by none other than Tom Hanks and Stephen Speilberg. Um, what?

According to qanon he’s a pedophile and even worse, friends with the Clintons. Fortunately Trump is working secretly with Mueller to bring down these cursed Hollywood paedophile rings.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/30/qanon-4chan-rightwing-conspiracy-theory-explained-trump

NBC News Link

The link above explains the QAnon issue related to Tom Hanks and others.

And "pizza" is a code word.

Freaks.

The thing about these conspiracy theories is that they rely on everyone involved being able to keep the secret, which just isn't human nature. As Benjamin Franklin said "Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead."

In all seriousness, is Tom Hanks now in danger from these people? Where their fantasies and the real world collide can be a very ugly and dangerous place.

Sable, you make an excellent point.

There's a homeless mentally ill man who stands on the corner shrieking doom-and-gloom Biblical passages wearing a paper cup on his head. If he wore a suit and tie and and shared those verses in a church, he'd be perceived as perfectly normal.

"In all seriousness, is Tom Hanks now in danger from these people? Where their fantasies and the real world collide can be a very ugly and dangerous place."

Yes, remember the guy with 3 guns who traveled to the pizza restaurant in D.C. because he believed that children were being held there. Pizzagate

Michael Flynn's son helped push Pizzagate rumors. Not that that should come as any surprise; his dad is famous for conspiracy theories.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/feb/14/michael-flynns-troubling-penchant-conspiracy-thoer/

Pal referred to Tom Cruise and not Tom Hanks.

I don't see where Tom Hanks came into the conversation but let's get him out of it if he isn't intended to be in it.

I've heard a lot of conspiracy theories over the years, and normally I just think that the believers are paranoid. Credulous, maybe. Wrong definitely. But I never thought of them as gullible. That is to say, it seemed like the roots of the conspiracy theories lay in genuine paranoia.

Reading the batshit crazy ideas of QAnon for the first time, all I could thing was, "Jeez, people. Can't you tell when someone is trolling you?" I think the origins of the theories lie with some liberal practical joker and the QAnon folks are just...gullible. Paranoid, yes, but really, really gullible. Trump is working with Mueller?!!! How anyone could seriously believe that is beyond me. It's like a farcical plot point from a political comedy.

benton - I believe I first mentioned Tom Hanks as he came up in the odd discussion with my doctor. I also posted the following up thread:

NBC News Link

The link above explains the QAnon issue related to Tom Hanks and others.

Hope that helps to clarify.

Yes I went back and saw the mention of Tom Hanks. It's all so weird I have trouble remembering the various parts. Sorry for the confusion.

(Unfortunately if the theory was actually about Tom Cruise instead of Tom Hanks, I would probably believe it. I would believe anything negative, no matter how bizarre, about him. And this is how some usually level headed people get involved with conspiracy theories.)

ok, changing my answer...Tom Hanks??? That’s not just an alternative political view. That’s messed up. I would definitely find someone else. Your instincts were spot on.

I've read quite a bit about Qanon and haven't seen Tom Hanks mentioned. I didn't click onto the above link thinking I didn't need to do so, that was my bad and apologize.

Like Pal I would believe any nutso thing about Tom Cruise.

ETA - read the link - so Tom Hanks isn't part of Qanan but rather conspiracy nuts are trying to drag him and others into their delusions.

Cruise drinks the Scientology kool-aid. He's hopeless.

I may have missed this upthread, but this Qanon is what got Roseanne Barr in trouble. She was spouting their conspiracy theories long before her show was revived, but it was thought that she would keep that separate from the show.

@ palimpsest RE: the acquaintance who died suddenly.

FWIW, 1 thing to keep in mind is that these days, when a young, or relatively young person dies suddenly, it often turns out to be due to opioid (or other dangerous drug) abuse.

IMO, many of the personalities currently in the news w/ crazy seeming beliefs are overly medicated.

Re the Scientology-affiliated celebrities (and, yes, T Cuise seems to be a true flake), I've read speculative comments over the years that their organization and its techniques (?"clearing") may be such that a lot of very personal information was given over that could make any celebrity think twice about leaving the church.

That seems very far fetched to me.

I have a ~medical practitioner who is very good technically -- like a master craftsman. I think of him as a variety of expert technician. He doesn't strike me as a particularly curious or broadly read individual, beyond he area of mastery. I'm confident that he is not a critical thinker with regards to today's aberrant political world.

However, if I detected that he was beyond the Pale and unable to think rationally, I would move on.

And, Ruby, I don't think that it is necessary of prudent to engage irrational personalities (Like Doctor Q). You do not owe any explanation, nor can you counter dynamic fanciful beliefs. A personality caught up in cult-like 'thinking' is not going to be open to rational discourse. Take care of yourself.

I sympathize with those of you realizing a huge rift between yourselves and longstanding acquaintances. Political views can differ, but someone frankly signalling that their nuts and bolts thinking has gone south is difficult for me to compartmentalize.

He doesn't strike me as a particularly curious or broadly read individual, beyond he area of mastery.

Well, but the thing is that what is happening has a LOT to do with his area of mastery. Politics (vide ACA) has a huge direct effect on what happens at the doctor's office. Sorry. It's not like he's a carpenter or something where all that is peripheral.

If he were a dentist, now, perhaps that argument would hold, since for some reason everyone thinks it's rational to leave dental care out of everything, but not an MD, DO, etc.

I believe I understand you, writersblock. His practice has nothing to do with ACA. And while I understand too about most (general and medically connected) dentistry, there are some areas that are more related to fine cabinetry or custom yacht building. And there are other tangentially medical related areas that may involve more craft then refereed journal articles.

No conspiracy theories, just, I would guess, more overall perspective of (a) what often small-business owners steer towards; (b) perhaps faux news of poli-talk radio and (c) a huge scoop of anti-HRC propaganda.

I often strike up conversations with people. While spending time with a friend in the ER then a med surg floor, admissions, lab, imaging and so on around summer 2016, I asked a variety of medical and paramedical staff if they were interested in the presidential campaign; what did they think.

Pretty much all of the nursing staff and techs were pro TV celebrity. Very anti HRC. They offered lots of "reasons" (which pretty much echoed the RW media outlets and books like Clinton Cash. A couple of ambulance drivers catching a break said that they didn't like "Obamacare" because (they once?!) had a person (what they said, did not make sense to me) use ambulance service to hitch a ride from a small city medical site to a larger one 30 miles away. They claimed that the patient (they later discovered) had no medical emergency but just needed a ride. I could not for the life of me figure it out what it had to do with the affordable care act or even how the person was certified (tequisioned) for such an ambulance trip. But these two young male drivers were absolutely convinced that they were going to vote for Trump based on that. Of course it's ridiculous but it wasn't an on usual mini-interview. Whether female or male, so many of these hospital related medical or office workers were inclined to be antagonistic toward Hillary Clinton; even those who I would've thought might be more balanced with their intake of news. It appeared that the right wing media outlets such as Fox and Hannity, Rush and O'Reilly had made a big impact on them. Sometimes I wonder a lot of people just listen to the easiest button to press. These people didn't entertain any questions or food-for-thought type of discourse. And I could not but get a snapshot as everyone was busy. They seemed pretty much cut and dry in their adamant position.

Some while later I asked a retired nurse friend if her read was like that in the greater Boston area. She thought that it was quite different but that there were still pockets of medical workers or support staff who she supposed were quite limited in their news intake and we're likely to be antagonistic toward Hillary Clinton and saw Trump as a good businessperson (blah blah blah).

I think that outside of certain areas and sub-cultures, there are many voter populations that could keep me awake at night. My mind keeps wandering to that movie, Invasion of the Body Snatchers and the pods.

Please excuse typos.

Sigh. I just think many Americans are busy working and living their lives. They don’t (won’t?) devote the time necessary to think critically about the ideology of each candidate and party. The pick one, similar to picking a team to root for, and then everything negative about “their” pick they attribute to “fake” news, conspiracies, etc. No offense to many of you who really stood behind her, but Hillary Clinton was a very unlikeable candidate. She was particularly repugnant to Republicans, many of whom were dismayed (myself included) that Trump won the nomination and would have been inclined to vote for a more palatable Dem in the general election. Instead, many held their noses and voted for Trump bc, well, Hillary.

Of course, rational thinking Republicans are now pretty much horrified by Trump. The Democrats could handily win their vote in 2020 if they can choose a rational, non-polarizing, not super leftist candidate. And then all this weird conspiracy mess will just sort of die off. Hopefully. (All of this is my personal take as a political science major and election junkie! Almost makes me wish I were still in school & could write a thesis on my theory. :)

@ruby, is there any chance at all that your doctor was telling you all that stuff to share how nuts this qanon is?

nosoccermom - well, anything is possible but unfortunately I believe he has bought into this stuff.