Zyperiris, many hugs to you. Yes, my head would spin if I kept reading all the things that could go wrong too! And you are still one of my favorite organics people too, no matter if you are forced to use sulfur, copper, whichever! Zyperiris, if it helps what is definitely organic to a tee and never ever hurts any living creature and protects roses 100% percent against PM and helps buffer against BS is fish oil-seaweed combined with Greencure. I didn't have the chance to write this out yet because I had to pull up the EPA ratings for tebucanazole. BS is impossible to cure, but it can be buffered against. The fish oils help the Greencure stick better to the leaves for just a bit longer. We had a horrible, horrible relentless rains this spring, but all my outside ground-planted roses and my new potted roses are doing terrific. Whenever we are plastered with rains, that's when the BS hits hard. I mix one quart of fish-seaweed mix and 1/4 teaspoon of Greencure. This is my first time combining both. I tried it for about 2 weeks in 2009 but then we were hit by the cold and freezing rains and the roses started to go dormant, I didn't continue with it. Here are the 2 amazing things I noticed when I used the fish-seaweed and 1/4 teapoon Greencure (this covers about 12-15 roses depending on the size of the rose bush). First of all powdery mildew dies within seconds? or 1-3 minutes max? of the application. Next I noticed that my rose leaves are getting huge and thicker-more leathery (5 times larger than they ever used to be)-I will try to post photos to show this!, which has never occurred before. Very leathery leaves tend to fight BS super well! BS so far is almost non-existent on my outside ground-planted roses and my new potted roses. Greencure alone is nowhere as fast or as successful as combining it with the fish-oils-seaweed I have found so far. Again I say so far! Once our hot, blazing sun hits during the summer, we will be BS free. It's the rainy fall which is our nightmare. I already survived the nightmare Spring rains, so we still have to wait and see. Logically Zyperiris, my roses should be contaminated and filled with BS. We had very heavy spring rains. I never picked up the BS ridden leaves in my Garden from last year's yucky fall/winter season. Absolutely no sulfur and dormancy sprays were used as well. My garden bed should have been a mess but it isn't! So again, I am thinking that the Greencure/fish oils has been really, really helping!

John...BATS is available at most Lowe's/Home Depots...2 tablespoons per gallon of water. Use the mixture as soon as you mix it up. It works in 99% of the cases, and rarely needs to be repeated for 6 months. The directions state that it works for 12 months, but my experience is that re-treatment is needed every 6 months. It does include a fertilizer, so it will cause a "burst" of growth when used. Do not water for 10 days after using BATS. The use of saucers under your pots is up to you. I leave the saucers on all of my pots, however, most folks in Florida remove them, due to growing their hoyas outdoors and wanting to protect their hoyas from root rot. I'd recommend that you remove the saucers if you grow your hoyas outdoors...Florida can get alot of rain. Hope this helps. Fondly, Patrick

Well, as I told you via email, I'd tried using Bayers in the past, in extreme situations, and it failed to do the job. So, between it being so toxic, and it not appearing to work, I just stuffed it in my closet and went back to neem oil and dish soap. Then, recently, I became concerned about how much soap residue might be building up on my Hoya leaves, because they were just constantly getting sprayed with the stuff. So, I decided to give Bayers another go, hopefully eradicate the mealies for good, and then stop constantly treating my plants. Also, the fact that Doug has no mealies really impressed me. (Caveat: I grow indoors and would not personally feel comfortable using it outdoors because it's such an indiscriminate killer.) So, I followed what I loving refer to as "The Patrick Method" which means you wait until the plants are dry, (so they will drink their medicine) then treat them at 2 TBSP/gallon. Then, if you still see mealies a week later, you treat again at 1.5x the original dose (3 TBSP/gallon). I only had to treat one flat twice. And I haven't' seen mealies since. (Well, I have, but because I bought some plants and they came with mealies, and I treated them last night.) Now, I had one hiccup, and that is that all my ellipticas reacted poorly to the Bayers. I'm not sure what the deal was, but immediately after I administered the treatment, they dropped a bunch of leaves and one of them ended up needing to be re-rooted. In fact, 1 of them is still dropping leaves, but the others all bounced back within a couple weeks. I did have some other Hoyas, randomly distributed in the population, that did the same thing, but I didn't record which ones they were. Now, GT, you asked whether elliptica was a thin-leafed and/or fragile Hoya, and this is what I have to say on that subject. Elliptica leaves aren't thin and it is as drought tolerant as the average Hoya, but for some reason it's just a very sensitive Hoya. It's perfectly easy to grow and maintain, so it isn't sensitive in that regard. It roots easily and it is no more likely to up and die on you than any other Hoya. But it takes shipping very hard, it doesn't like to be moved, its leaves are easily damaged by sprays and treatments and soaks, and I've had trouble in the past with its leaves turning pale from nutritional deficiency. It's just a weird Hoya in some regards. So, I wasn't really that surprised when it didn't like the Bayers. I don't know if anyone else has had that experience - I'd never heard anyone mention it. One thing I am interested in, is whether it's okay to use the treatment on plants that are in S/H. I mean, I just went ahead and poured it into my S/H groups and didn't experience any bad reactions. But they didn't have any mealies on them to begin with, and it did get watered down some, so it was a pretty sloppy procedure.

Thanks, Ken. You know, I thought aphids were simply green. Never saw any other color, until I went north to Massachusetts, and saw what I thought was black mildew on the stems of my nasturtiums. My surprise, they were gummy millions of black aphids....and I was told by Mr. Jones at Jones Farms and Nurseries (Chelmsford MA, great nursery and farm store, highly recommend their breads and local items.)......that nasturtiums were usually planted as the sacrificial crop to lure aphids away from the "good stuff." Sigh......well, they did a good job of that. Now I see wholly aphids, with white wings no less, like powdery bird wings. At least I can spot em. But where are my wild birds when I need them? It is time for them to pay me back for all the free meals and living accommodations while they raised their clutches. Thanks for the ID on those suckers. Treatment will begin with the next dry spell....it rained all day off and on. Sort of drizzling right now even. Love a rainy night. Here is a link that might be useful: Eddie Rabbitt live performance video