location and a couple pix would be helpful ... ken

I would wonder about how it was planted........size of the planting hole, any amendments, any disturbing of the rootball or straightening of circling roots, etc. Lack of growth or stunting is most often attributable to root issues.

Which particular kind of maple it is in combination with your geographical location might be relevant. Two much planted varieties are the 'Crimson King' Norway maple and the Red Sunset ('Franksred') red maple. Could it be one of these?

Crimson Sunset® Maple = Acer truncatum x A. platanoides

USDA Zone 4 & up appropriate.

https://www.jfschmidt.com/pdfs/crimsonsunsetmaple.pdf

Probably finally succumbing to too cold a climate.

Ah yes their new purple one.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=PP21838.PN.&OS=PN/PP21838&RS=PN/PP21838

It should be noted that the hybrid parentage Bill shows is not peculiar to this selection, by now there is a series of them (see jfschmidt.com and uspto.gov pages linked to above). All raised and selected in western USDA 8. With there having been some other commentary on G.W. about these not being a complete success back East.

It may likely be a hardiness issue as you said you are in a very cold climate. I have tried to grow Acer truncatum hybrids here in Minnesota (zone 4) with little success. For every tree that makes it, three or more die out or are stunted in growth and never amount to much. In my experience, lack of growth or stunted growth is most often root damage. That could be caused by extreme winter cold or your clay soil staying too wet for too long or both.

I currently grow in mostly heavier clay and I can tell you that the hybrid's one parent, the Norway maple, definitely does not like its feet wet for too long. I have had rows of trees on hills where the Norway maples at the top grew big trunks and nice full heads. And as you went down the hill the trees became progressively smaller. The ones near the bottom were stunted and had barely grown. This is the maddening part about heavy clay. Trees can drown in the smallest depressions if water takes too long to drain through and dry up. Drilling holes would only help if you have lighter, well-draining soil underneath. Otherwise the holes will act as little reservoirs.

Sorry. Not an encouraging answer.

i know peeps in FL who thinks 60 degrees.. is freezing.. and put their heat on ...until OP chimes in with location .... who knows ... we can speculate until we turn green ...

ken

btw: drilling holes will be useless .... it would help if we had some pix...

The soil is pretty nasty where planted a 'Prairie Splendor' Norway maple, the thing had done well the first few years until the roots reached the boundary of the large hole I originally dug for it, beyond that was clay hard like concrete. The tree had thinned and declined drastically in the following years and thought I might lose the thing until I began top dressing with copious amounts of compost and applying a good dose of quick release fertilizer, the tree sure did kick back into gear and is now vigorous thick and full. The site is sloped and very well drained and the specimen has now pushed its roots though that difficult soil, though I still like to give it a bit of a feeding from time to time. Anyways, I think that most maples enjoy their root being in well drained friable soil of good nutrient value, otherwise they stress out.

Froze Budd. What you just said sounds highly plausible for my situation. The ground stayed pretty wet all the time and had mulch on it as well and the clay keeps it wet. I think we are starting to figure something out. I gave it a fertilizer stick last year and that did help produce some growth but this year it’s stopped growing. I too dressed and completely altered the soil all the way around the tree for a good 4 feet and 16 inches deep with top soil and compost mix. It may just need some time for it’s roots to get to the good stuff. Or I can try chopping some of the roots to force them to grow into the new soil.

i don’t think it’s a cold issue. No tip dieback and it hasn’t got any worse in two years and this past winter was one of the worst in 100 years.

To be honest, my crimson king maple has barely grown this year as well but is still nice and lush and huge leaves. I think my soil is an issue. I also amended that tree as well.

Sounds like you've put good effort into amending the clay soil with the "4 feet and 16 inches deep with top soil and compost mix". Though, yes, rather than being thin and sparse, a tree should have begun to hit its stride after three years "if" being happy in its location. The below specimen has also been in for three years and has its roots in awesome deep silty soil, it is also now sending out a bit of a second flush.

Now, this below specimen was within a year or so of meeting its waterloo, foliage sparse as heck and having a dead leader ... fertilizer and compost applications brought it back from the brink and the thing has now driven its roots into and beyond the hard clay zone. The tree shares some common struggles with yours, though despite the darn tough clay it endures, drainage is not a problem because of the slope it's situated upon. Now, when planting, you probably had attempted to tease the root structure apart as generally recommended, thus I would not go in and do any root pruning. In the event the subsoil remains a bit overly moist, I've observed where juvenile trees have lost their deeper roots in favor of developing those closer to the surface, later as the specimen matures, it becomes better at tolerating moister subsoils and again pushes roots deeper down. I'm sure that your tree is otherwise not in a bit of a depression where water might collect?

Fertilizer and compost is right. And all of my trees loved the fertilizer stick I gave them last year. Just going to keep doing it. So it sounds like getting it going with supplements, will help it grow itself better into the clay. Unfortunately it’s too late to do a fertilizer stick.

My red rocket has done a paltry 3 inches this year and had done a foot last year. Fertilizer stick!

And no my tree is not in a depression. It’s on a slope but the soil stays wet due to the clay and mulch. I moved the mulch back from the ball to help it dry out.

One other thing I noticed was that the roots barely came out of the original rootball except one that was a couple feet out. I cut it shorter when amending the soil and one leaf turned brown lol. I’m just going to keep up with compost and fertilization for the next couple years.

Well, my above Norway maple has now been fed with several large handfuls of quick release fertilizer and the soak hose is giving it a very deep long drink. It's extremely dry here, the last rain of any significance was way back in July, rains that approach from the west mostly dissipate due to the rain shadow effect of the local topography west and nw of me. Anyways, anyone who believes that such timing of fertilization risks pushing new growth, well they don't know Alberta, lol ... possible snow is in the forecast for next week.

One thing we never ask about is elevation. Could that have something to do with the problem?

Edit: I mean parts of Alberta are in the Rockies but are the plains "high plains"?

Froze Buds, what do you mean by such timing? As in, the trees won’t push out at this time because of the cold? I have read multiple articles that a slow release fertilizer after the leaves have dropped is extremely useful for the roots growth before frozen soil and it helps the tree grow well in the spring. You have to make sure to not have too much nitrogen I believe because that is the only nutrient that encourages new green growth but if it’s slow release than it won’t matter at that point if the tree has shut down anyways.

Where I am, the elevation is 2200ft above sea level. We have extremely erratic spring and autumn seasons. But I find the only time that’s an issue for trees, is late frosts that kill flowers or extremely early blasts of killing cold that destroy new growth that hasn’t hardened off. Luckily where I am, trees shut down fairly early so I’m not having any of that problem. Only tree that had that issue last year was my Katsura tree. It was its first year and it kept growing all the way to November so it lost its newest tips but kept everything else. Only lost about two inches on average but that was its first year and it came from a much warmer climate so it has to adjust. I’m just hoping this year it shuts down in time so I can see it’s fall colour. It’s extremely frost hardy. Even the new growth didn’t show signs of burn until about -5c or 20f.

Do you guys figure I go for the quick release the second the trees come out next spring? Or should I give this fall fertilizing a shot? I called Greenland nursery and they were shocked that I would even mention it but I’ve read loads of articles about it and it’s apparently a normal practice in many places even in northern climates. I would do it in late October for the trees that have lost all their leaves for awhile.

If I understand you correctly. You want to fertilized using slow release, low N content and do it late in the season?

Ime, you'd be applying only P & K in any substantial amounts.

Because when applying late season, in cold climates, there won't be much root growth or anything else once ground temps drop to <40d. Around my area, the ground can be froze by end of October. So the N will be available right away in the spring but do little else that late in the fall.

The other issue is, does your soil need more P & K? If not then why pour on more? Soil tests should be done before hand. So if it does, those could have been applied much earlier in the season when the roots could really use it.

OTOH: You could try it and see how it works out for you by doing it in the fall.

It was actually by fluke that I had begun doing autumn fertilizing ... well, okay, while back on the farm, a family member had swept fertilizer off of a truck that fell evenly dispersed around the base of an 8 ft blue spruce. The amount was significant enough to be concerned that the tree might end up being damaged. Now, I intended to remove that fertilizer, though rain soon fell and dissolved the stuff. Anyways, it ended up being a very harsh winter and each and every blue spruce planted along the perimeter of the yard had shown significant needle burn ... you guessed it, other than the one having been dosed with fertilizer, it was perfectly pristine! Now, yes, spruce are different than maples, but my late summer application just might be giving the maple a bit of an extra charge or at least it's all revved up and ready to go come spring as Bill had mentioned. The tree also did received hundreds of gallons of water to dilute and soak the stuff in. I have also done spring fertilization and composting, (never in conjunction with an autumn application!) though, reducing the rate to lessen the risk of inducing a rank second flush of growth.

The last two winters have been especially tough on some of my cedars and upright blue junipers and come to think of it, although I've been watering them in as necessary, I've forgotten to sprinkle some fertilizer around them! :)

Interesting. From what I heard, the fertilizer after defoliation, helps the roots take up nutrients so the tree can actually be stronger over the winter. All you really need, is a good gap between freezing of the soil and full defoliation. I highly doubt the tree will grow anything new if you give it fertilizer 10 days after it lost all its leaves....especially with slow release. I'm interested in the hardier tree because of it though. My cedars in certain areas got nailed last year from the super cold and sunny days and wind I'm assuming. Most of them grew lots this year though but I can't afford another terrible winter. Problem is, evergreens don''t lose their leaves and they don't stop growing so when's a good time and how much?

" From what I heard, the fertilizer after defoliation, helps the roots take up nutrients so the tree can actually be stronger over the winter. "

The components in fertilizer are the nutrients and unless you have some sort of deficiency in your soil, adding more won't help.

A trees root system and it's stored energy, is what determines how strongly it comes back in the spring. Unless it encounters some sort of winter damage. Most trees that are zone appropriate and have had a 'good' previous summer, without drought or other setback, should have a very robust root system the following spring.

" I highly doubt the tree will grow anything new if you give it fertilizer 10 days after it lost all its leaves "

On the contrary, root growth accelerates in the fall and will increase the length of existing roots up to about 60%, from the time the tree sets winter buds (before leaf loss), until the ground temperature gets down to around 40df and below. And it isn't the fertilizer that causes this, it's a function of the tree.

" My cedars in certain areas got nailed last year from the super cold and sunny days and wind I'm assuming. "

Are these true cedars? Most likely Thuja and Juniperus, which took a beating last winter, over a large area of the country, because of sunny, warm spells early in the spring, then a return to cold, windy, low temperatures.

I don't think fertilizer would help those conditions. Some people cover their shrubs with burlap or make some sort of windbreak around them to protect them from the sun and wind.

If you decide to use Nitrogen fertilizer, to try to increase growth, I would look at how well your soil percolates, if it's a heavy clay that take water very slowly, then you may want to add that late season, a few weeks before the ground freezes. That way, in the spring, the N would've hopefully penetrated to a depth that it would be available to the tree, as soon as the temperature rises and the tree comes out of dormancy.

In a more porous soil, you could just wait until the frost goes out next spring and the soil will take water and then apply the N, so it's available by the time the soil warms and the tree comes out of dormancy.

The second method works best for me in a sandy loam where water readily disappears when applied around the inside my mulch rings. :-)

Adding fert late (after the risk of encouraging new growth has past) makes sense to me. It gets into the soil and it's accessible to the roots during prime root-growing time until the ground freezes and is available as soon as the soil thaws in the spring. Seems like you get a few more weeks of the roots processing nitrogen or whatever they do to make/store energy. **I'm not a science guy (I'm an accountant) so take anything I say with a 10 lb grain of salt. lol

And please, don't over do it with nitrogen.

In our world of modern chemistry, we've found ways to sort of 'cheat' in a way. But too much nitrogen, especially on small trees and possibly other woody plants, can make them produce unusually long, weak growth that can break off easily in early spring. And there may be other drawbacks that I don't know about.

And don't think you soil doesn't have Nitrogen, Thunderstorms produce it naturally.

Lightning makes Nitrogen:

I haven’t done a soil test. I put in “used” top soil mixed with clay in my yard to save money when we moved in because our yard is so big and we couldn’t afford to do a six inch layer of brand new top soil. I am assuming this is a nutrient problem as all my maples grew very slowly or not at all this year but last year grew very well with fertilizer sticks. I know it’s an assumption but it looks like a fair one.

Definitely, there's a fine line between an acceptable maximum dose and overdose. I lost a Norway maple that had been planted about 8 ft from the compost pile. It grew great until its roots found that rich nitrogen source, then it grew even GREATER and always flushed extreme vigorous soft wood, it soon perished. For the most part, I have good soil here, but a bit on the lean side, though my other aforementioned maple sits in hard clay and stone that better makes for parking pad! Four or five years after planting, the thing had drastically thinned out and lost its leader and dead certainly appeared to loom. Again, that's when I had given it a good spring dosing of fertilizer and a few pails of compost. That summer was a turning point and the following year it was nicely filling out and advancing skyward. Then, I had missed a spring application and instead decided to feed in late summer and noted an especially good spring performance with the benefit of a reduced amount of late summer flushing.

"Problem is, evergreens don't lose their leaves and they don't stop growing so when's a good time and how much?" ... well, when our autumn night temps drop down to -5 C, I think even they call it quits for the season. With the unseasonable cold that has now "already" set in upon our part of the world, it's pretty much game over for pushing growth. Early October is when I generally begin watering and fertilizing evergreens in, this year maybe earlier! As for rate, I use granular quick release, the individual fertilizer pellets being spread to about 1/2 an inch apart in a basin around the tree and then giving it two or three good drinks to dissolve and soak the stuff in. Of course, the overall rate depends of the size of the specimen, but I do not use an overly heavy hand!

"I don't think fertilizer would help those conditions. Some people cover their shrubs with burlap or make some sort of windbreak around them to protect them from the sun and wind." ... Bill, again noting my experience with the spruce, I believe it just might have a beneficial buffering effect. I wish I had kept up with doing so these last two very harsh winters!

My cedars are thuja. It’s the techny variety. So they did bad in your area as well? To be honest, I still think it was the low temps and sun as it was mostly on their south side and you could see the leaves drying out in February .

Lots of good info and advice there Bill! I generally provide a makeshift shade structure for newly planted evergreens or quickly throw something up in early spring if a specimen is then beginning to show stress. I now have too many larger plants that must tough it out without any physical barrier. As for the spruce that came through winter in excellent shape, such had occurred after receiving the chance late summer fertilizer, rather than a spring application that might have helped to bolster overall growth of the specimen. Anyways, I'm gonna get back to doing autumn fertilization, especially on a few touchier things such as Thuja occidentalis 'Janed Gold' as a test plant.

Have at it! :-)

You have to try different things, to see what works for you and sometimes, if the weather and everything is just right, anything you do works. But then that must fall into the category of 'just plain lucky'. :-)

With coarse sandy, soil, nitrogen can disappear in quantities, if it turns rainy & cold for a spell. So in my conditions, waiting until spring makes more sense. But I do try to keep everything in good shape, during the season and going into winter.

The only thing I've protected from wind/sun is my Hemlock, because it is so new (only second full year in the ground) and the known sensitivity to winter burn. The Thuja damage is the first time It's happened to me, so I won't worry about it too much, the new growth has pretty much covered the old damage up already.

My extremely open and windy conditions are improving every year so possibly, this year will be the last time that I surround my Hemlock. We'll see if it outgrows it's 'cage' next year. If it does, I don't think I'll do any more with that one. Maybe water when no rain.

Most of my trees will have been in the ground 3 to 6 years by this fall, so I'll probably only water them next year if drought occurs.

So when do we fertilize the cedars in fall? And what type are you using? Slow release?

Except for those I grow in containers, I have never fertilized my trees. They just don't need all that much to grow well and in most cases, they will get all the nutrients they need from the existing soil, especially if you mulch routinely.

If you have not had a soil test and therefore don't know if additional nutes are necessary or not, I would keep it pretty simple........overfertilization can cause a lot more problems than under fertilizing your plants!! Use an all purpose fert (all 3 numbers the same or close to it) and I'd stick with an organic product like Plant Tone. They are by definition slow release and difficult (but not impossible) to over-apply. And I would do so now as it will take several weeks for the soil food web to start breaking down the product into plant accessible forms.

I never fertilize any of my conifers.

Or my lawn.

I guess, I like to buck the trend and in spring will also give most anything I transplant (including evergreens) a small sprinkling of quick release. Folks often will say noooo to such applications ... well, the plants still have roots and being capable of uptaking nutrients, it's all about providing just a bit of a boost.

Plant Love, It goes without saying, the Canadian prairie is an exceeding harsh and difficult climate like few others! Heck, currently, other than in Alberta and northern BC, where else below the 60th parallel is it currently snowing in North America? ... yes, it's extremely unpredictable here! I'll soon apply a balanced quick release to my cedars and upright junipers, I want such to be fast absorbed, utilized and stored, or whatever the plant chooses to do with it. Anyways, to further this, I recall reading of a well known Calgary rosarian who always practiced feeding his tender roses at the end of the growing season and having documenting superior cane survival. Each to their own as we discover what possibly works and or doesn't work for us.

Bill, what was your low last winter?

FB,

I agree, my perennials and smaller deciduous trees will get a one time shot of a soluble like MG in the early spring. The leaves come out nice and full so the plant can start making food for the roots. Then it's just water the rest of the year. They told us in Farm/Ag school that thick lush growth will survive a frost/freeze better than will the thin anemic growth of a struggling plant.

The annuals will get MG half a dozen times during the growing season.

This year was the first time I used a small amount (handful or two) of 23-0-0 slow release granules, early spring, around a few of the deciduous trees, that have been in a few years and were just not doing what I thought they should be and had good results.

I used some MG on a couple of Spruce a few years ago and got some weird growth so stopped and all my conifers have been growing well on their own.

PL,

I think we had a night or two of -34d F. We usually have a week or two in the minus 20's in January with daytime highs in the single digits below. Although this accu-weather record doesn't confirm that. But it can vary. We had 15 below zero, one year beginning of April and once in early Nov. And of coarse the wind usually accompanies a warming trend. But generally late Dec into January, early Feb. being the months we dread the most for severe cold.

So what city are you in? St. Cloud? And what’s mg?

Nvm miracle grow right? How early in spring do you put it down? And I’m assuming you use water soluble quick release?

Yes, MG. :-) The blue stuff that you mix with water. Big side of the green spoon heaping per gallon. As soon as the frost is out of the ground so it soaks in readily.

Some years that can be late March or early April and the weather will get cold again and the plants will just sit there until the weather warms in May before growing.

I've tried applying it later, right before bud break but it's not as good then. I think it's similar to putting it on late Fall, it just stays in the ground around the root area and as soon as the plant begins to come out of dormancy, even slightly, it's available to the plant.

It's hard for me to get peonies to flower well unless I do that. After a long hard winter, it gives an overall 'kick start' to the Climatis and other perenials too.

PL, I'm 75 mi. north and west of St.Cloud. A whole zone colder. But I can throw a rock from here to 4a.

Good to know thanks. I'm going to attempt both of the ideas we've discussed. Autumn fertilizer on a few trees after they have defoliated and spring fertilizer like you speak of. I'm assuming they will be similar but I'd like to compare the results and possibly see if there is anything to the autumn fertilizer helping with winter.

Sounds like a plan.

Another note on nitrogen. Fresh grass clippings contain fair amount of N that is exuded as it dries. My lawnmower has the 'mulch' cover on all season and my lawn looks good without supplements. I'm sure tree roots take advantage of extra N that gets adsorbed into topsoil moisture.

Keep us posted on how things turn out. It's always interesting how things operate in other parts of the world. :-)

I didn’t know that. I have heard that you can end up with extra nitrogen very easily though so maybe I should use a low nitrogen fert. I leave my grass clippings on the lawn and it seems to really help my grass. I can bet it annoys my picky neighbors though as nobody else leaves theirs but I don’t care. It adds to the nutrients in the soil and I need that for my fairly new lawn.

Okay. So my red rocket maple has no leaves and lost them about 2 weeks ago. I would say now is a good time to drop some slow release fert on it maybe?

The weather has been absolutely horrendous and who knows how trees might end up being impacted. Besides, the ground is already cold and today had remained frozen in places that were shaded, just crazy for this time of the year! Why not wait for spring to see how your tree fares in the first place and just go from there.