The 3 R's.....changed to RPNM ??

7 years ago

I believe that the traditional 3 R's has morphed into Reading , Printing and New Math ( whatever variety).

Reading ?

My 8 year old granson does not enjoy reading books. This makes me very sad for him. He claims that he can get information easier from the internet and books are not a source of enjoyment. He'd rather do other more creative things.

Writing ? Hah. Kids today will be printing into their golden years. I doubt anyone knows how to write in script. The schools toss it in at the end of 2nd and 3rd grade as an after thought. This year the teacher sent a booklet home to parents telling them to teach it over the summer. Seriously.

Math? Perhaps this is the only area where kids are better educated than we ever were.

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User

7 years ago

last modified: 7 years ago

My apologies, Donna. I was caught up in the moment. :-)

Your examples of poor editing are but a few of the currently frustrating reader "interruptions" I find. I have AMD and one of the most annoying characteristics I'm experiencing lately is the quality of print itself that publishers are pushing off onto the reading public. Some type is so light in color that I have serious difficulty reading the printed page. If the book is truly something I want to read, I must pull out my trusty magnifying glass to make the project easier.

I've had numerous discussions with the people at Barnes & Noble regarding this. They're as baffled about the quality of the printed word as well as the poor editing as we are but don't seem to be able to do much about it. Considering that their retail business keeps many of these publishers in business, I can't help but wonder why they don't have more clout with them. According to what they tell me, they receive complaints on a daily, regular basis. It's sad...along with being considerably annoying!

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Comments (68)

User
7 years ago
Yes, Donna...it does sound British. And yet I have a dickens of a time understanding some English dialects. I was quite interested in watching Endeavor on PBS but I can't always understand what he's saying. LOL I guess that's why they offer subtitling. I don't own a TV. I subscribe to PBS through my internet connection and using the subtitle feature often interferes with the picture on my monitor so I don't use it.

You're right about the New Jersey and Brooklyn accents. They are alike. And there are times I had as much difficulty understanding them as I do with the different English dialects.

T'is a comical world. Most of us speak English and one would think we should be able to understand one another. T'ain't always the case. Imagine how difficult the dialects of this country are to a foreigner who's trying to learn the language. About as difficult as it would be for us to learn Chinese and all their regional dialects. Perhaps hand signals aren't as archaic as we think. When I lived in Rio during the late seventies they came in quite handy. :-)
yoyobon_gw
Original Author
7 years ago
New Jersey accent, anyone here to tell us about it ?
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FLOWERED CLIMBERS: (LCl) ALICJA-----------------------------------------LP----“FOUND” ROSE AXELINE--------------------------------------MP----“FOUND” ROSE BUSH GARDEN CL-------------------------OP-----“FOUND” ROSE CAMPANILE------------------------DP----1967----“FOUND” ROSE CESAR--------------------------------------------------------YB-----1993 GOLDEN MIST-----------------------------------------------MY----- HIGH FLIER------------------------------------------MR----2004---- HIGH SOCIETY---------8-19-05-----11/2005-------------DP----2005 MANIPUR MAGIC-----5-15-05------7/2005--------------LY----2005 MARY’S PRIDE---10-31-05--------------------------------RB----2005 NATASHA MARIA----------------------------------OR----1995---- NAVARRO RAMBLER----------------------PB----“FOUND” ROSE NEW HAMPSHIRE STATEHOUSE--------------OP-----2001---- NIGHT OWL---------8-15-05------11/2005----------------M-----2005 OLD DANISH ---------------------------------MP----“FOUND” ROSE PIONEER SPIRIT------12-1-05-----------------------------MP----2005 SARA MAY PRICE-----7-12-05-----9/2005--------------MP----1988 SCENT FROM ABOVE-----8-19-05-----11/2005-------MY----2005 SERAPE---------------------------------------------------------MR---- SKY’S THE LIMIT------9-27-05--------------------------MY----2005 SUMIRE-NO-OKA------3-17-05------7/2005--------------M----2005 SUMMIT------------------------------------------------------MR----2005 SUNSHINE GIRL-----------------------------------------------LP---- TRINITY RAMBLER -------------------------DP---“FOUND” ROSE WILLITS CRESCENDO----------------------LP----“FOUND” ROSE **********OLD GARDEN ROSES:********** ALBA: (A) AMELIA**---------------------------MP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1823 DADDY’S PINK-------------------------A, lp------“FOUND” ROSE DADDY’S PINK >>>>>>>>>>>>>GREAT MAIDEN’S BLUSH GREAT MAIDEN’S BLUSH**---A, W---8.9----------W---MAIDEN BLUSH-----A, 1797>>>>GREAT MAIDEN’S BLUSH AYRSHIRE (Ayr) JANET B WOODS------------------Ayr-----W----“FOUND” ROSE BURBON: (B) CHARLES XII---------------------------------------DP----2004---- CENTIFOLIA (C) ROSE DE MEAUX WHITE------------C---W--- “FOUND” ROSE STEEPLE ROSE------------------------C----DP----“FOUND” ROSE DAMASK (D) COELINA--------------------------------------------------------LP---- COELINA DUBOS**---------------------------D----LP---1840---- ROSE DU ROI AUT ------------------------------------------MR---- HEAD OF RIVERS--------------------D-----MP----“FOUND” ROSE MADAME ZOETMAN’S**------------------D----W---(1830)---- HYBRID BRACTEATA (HBc) GOLDEN BUDDHA-----12-5-05--------------------------OB----2005 HYBRID CHINA (HCh) HOMESTEAD----------------------------------DR----‘FOUND” ROSE IRENE WATTS-----1896>>>PINK GRUSS AN AACHEN------(F) MARY LAWRENCE SHELL ROSE-------------Ch, mr, 1799---- MENDOCINO PALE PINK CHINA---------LP----‘FOUND” ROSE OLD RED-----------------------------------------MR---‘FOUND” ROSE SHANGHAI PRINCESS------------------------------LP----1993---- HYBRID EGLANTERIA (HEg) BRADWARDINE--------------------------------------PB---1894---- HYBRID GALLICA: (HGal) ALICE VENA-------------------------M---AGATHE FATIME-----MP--->>>>>>AGATHE FATIM * AGATHE ROSES-------------------------------------------LP----AGENOR-------------------------------M>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1832 COMTE FOY**--------------------------------HGal----LP---1827--- COMTESSE DE LACEPEDE----------------LP----“FOUND” ROSE EVONA’S GALLICA--------------------------PB---“FOUND” ROSE NEARLY WILD GALLICA------------------DP---“FOUND” ROSE VELINGSTORPROSEN-----------------------M----“FOUND” ROSE WILLIAM GRANT----------------------------DP----“FOUND” ROSE HYBRID MULTIFLORA (HMult) FIDDLETOWN PINK NOISETTE--------MP----“FOUND” ROSE TUMBARUMBA SCHOOLHOUSE-------DP----“FOUND” ROSE HYBRID PERPETUAL (HP) AMELIA LOUISE**-------------------------HP----MP---1844---- BEAUTIFUL BLACK-----------------------DR----“FOUND” ROSE BLUE MICKEY-------------------------------M-----“FOUND” ROSE COMET-------------------------------------------HP----M---1845---- DU ROI A FLEUR POURPRE------------------------HP, 1819 EDINGER WHITE----------------------------W----“FOUND” ROSE LADY GENEVIEVE------------------------MR----“FOUND” ROSE LARRY DANIELS-----“sport of “grandmothers hat”------LP---- PRUDENCE ROSSER-----------------------PB----“FOUND” ROSE SOUV DI CASTAGNETO------------------LP----“FOUND” ROSE VAN HOUTTEN HP------------------------DR----“FOUND” ROSE HYBRID SEMPERVIRENS (HSem) MELMORE TERRACE--------HSem----W-------“FOUND” ROSE HYBRID SETIGERA (HSet) ANNA MARIA---------HSet-----DP 1843>>>>>>ANNE MARIA RASPBERRY RIPPLE----------HSet-----PB-------“FOUND” ROSE TEA & CLIMBING TEA: (T & CL T) ABRICOTE--------------------------AB>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1848 AH MOW----------------------------------------LP----“FOUND” ROSE AMBASCIATORE MARCO FRANCISCI---PB--“FOUND” ROSE AMELIA ANDERSON-------------------------PB---“FOUND” ROSE ANGEL’S CAMP WHITE TEA--------------W-----“FOUND” ROSE ANNAPURNA-----11-13-05----------------------W----------------2005 BEAUTE INCONSTANTE-------OB---1892------“FOUND” ROSE BRYAN FREIDEL PINK TEA--------------PB----“FOUND” ROSE CELIE’S SLIDELL PINK, CL----------------W----“FOUND” ROSE COMELIE KOCH**------------------------------------W---1855---- DAMIEN’S AMULET TEA------------------LP----“FOUND” ROSE DUQUESA-------5-15-05------7/2005-------------------LP-------2005 DR LANDE--------------------------DP---- 1902----“FOUND” ROSE JANE ISOBELLA LITON--------------------PB----“FOUND” ROSE McCALLUN HOUSE-------------------------LY----“FOUND” ROSE QUIET REFLECTIONS----------------------DY----“FOUND” ROSE RIVERINA SUNSET-------------------------MP----“FOUND” ROSE SPERAGINA-----------------------------------DP----“FOUND” ROSE WHITE DR GRILL----------------------------W-----“FOUND” ROSE MISCELLANEOUS OGR (MISC. OGR) CLOVE SCENTED MUSK---Misc OGR ---W---“FOUND” ROSE CROMWELL SCHOOL-----Misc OGR----RB---“FOUND” ROSE D’ORSAY ROSE**--------------------------OGR----DP---1850--- DOROTHY’S FRONT PORCH------Misc OGR--“FOUND” ROSE KEY ROCK ROSE---------Misc OGR-----YB----“FOUND” ROSE LOWBURN ROSE--------Misc OGR------DP-----“FOUND” ROSE MAILE’S DOUBLE PINK ---Misc OGR---MP---“FOUND” ROSE MAILE’S PINK QUILL------Misc OGR----LP----“FOUND” ROSE MEMORIAL DAY ROSE----Misc OGR---MP---“FOUND” ROSE ROSE DE LA GRIFFERAIE**------Cl OGR-------------LP----1845 SIX FOURS AURI-------------Misc OGR----W---“FOUND” ROSE MOSS & CLIMBING MOSS: (M & Cl M) CHINATOWN MOSS--------------------M---RB---“FOUND” ROSE DUCHESS D’ABRANTES**-------------------M---LP---1851---- MRS MATSO’S MOSS----------------M-----DR---“FOUND” ROSE NEVIS MOSS---------------------------M-----MP---“FOUND” ROSE NSJ PINK MOSS-----------------------M-----DP----“FOUND” ROSE OLD WHITE MOSS--------------------M-----W----“FOUND” ROSE TINWELL MOSS------------------------M----DP---“FOUND” ROSE NOISETTE: (N) BUZZY’S WHITE SEEDLING---------------W----“FOUND” ROSE CUNNINGHAM WEST CLIMBER------LY------“FOUND” ROSE MARGUERITE DESRAYAUX----MP---1906----“FOUND” ROSE NAVARRO RIDGE ---------------------------LP----“FOUND” ROSE PORTLAND (P) BEMARD**---------------------------------------P----OP---1846----- SPECIES (Sp) R. MACROPHYLLA DONCASTERI------4-7---- DP----1930---- LISTED BELOW ARE ROSES ELIGIBLE FOR (DOWAGER QUEEN), THAT ARE NOT LISTED AS (DQ) IN THE 2005 AEN PUBLICATION. ( XXXX ) INDICATES INFO. FROM THE CRL, CONSIDERED TEMPORARY UNTIL LISTED IN AN ARS PUBLICATION. ABAILLARD-----------------------HGal-----PB---1845 ABBE BERIEZE----------------------HP-----DP---1864 ACIDALIE-----------------------------B------W----1838 ADAM----------------------------------T------MP---1838 AGATHE INCAMATA----------HGal-----MP---1815 AIMAB AIMABLE ROUGE-------------------------HGal---1819 ALBA SUAVEOLENS-------------------A---W---1750 ALCIME------------------------------HGal----DP---1834 AMELIA-----------------------------------A---MP---1823 AMELIA LOUISE---------------------HP----MP---1844 AMERICAN ROSEATE--------------HEg---DP---1846 AMERICAN WHITE-------------------HEg---W---1840 BEAU NARCISSE--------------------HGal----M---1829 BELLARD-----------------------------HGal----LP---1857 BELLE AURORE------------------------A----LP---1815 BELLE DE SEGUR----------------------A----LP---1848 BELLE DE YEBLES---------------HGal----MR---1835 BELLE DORIA------------------------HGal---PB---1847
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XL13 or XL14 Trane heat pump, R-410A or R-22 refrigerant
Q
Comments (10)
I have heard that if you take two systems that are the same other than one being R22 and the other being 410a that the 410a unit will outperform the r22 by a fairly wide margin on heating and cooling. I was told it was such a difference that if you had a 3.5ton r12 unit that you can usually replace it with a 3ton r410a system and have the same level of comfort. I know there would be a difference but I didn't think it would be that much. I do realize that on the home situation he is comparing an old r22 probably low seer system to a new r410a 13+ seer and being able to drop .5 tons and realize that some of it would probably be by SEER rating difference but over 25% drop in system size seems extreme. If this is even partially true it makes little sense to me to buy any new r22 system.
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What's f0r dinner M0nday?
Q
Comments (18)
Pammyfay, we 0nly ate 1/2 the sub, s0 we have lunch t0m0rr0w--n0t bad f0r $5.59--and the r0ast beef was rare and delici0us. Y0ur meatball sub s0unds great, t00! 0h, yum, Sch00lh0use, three 0f my fav0rites. We're definitely having Brussels spr0uts t0m0rr0w night. They were 0n t0night's menu. Jasdip, I always d0 free f0rm meatl0af. I put it 0n a rack 0ver a f0il-lined c00kie sheet t0 help with the cleanup. I like the way they l00k--like my m0ther was in the kitchen. Ge0rgysm0m, I call th0se days pancake days :-) Shirley, the w0nderful smell fr0m y0ur kitchen is incentive en0ugh t0 make h0memade sauce. Glad y0u have plenty f0r later! Y0gaLady, this is the recipe I used. I th0ught it might be t00 sweet, but it wasn't. Guess 1/3 c. br0wn sugar isn't much f0r 2 c. 0f 0ats. It makes a l0t, s0 0ne batch will last at least 3 days (m0re, if 0nly y0u are eating it). I CR0CKP0T APPLE 0ATMEAL Throw 2 sliced apples, 1/3 cup brown sugar, 1 tsp cinnamon in the bottom of the crock pot. Pour 2 cups of oatmeal and 4 cups of water on top. Do NOT stir. Cook overnight for 8-9 h0urs 0n l0w. FYI Harry stays up later than me, s0 he added the water and turned it 0n at 11:30. I w0ke up ar0und 3 and checked it. It was beginning t0 bubble and I wish I'd stirred it then t0 blend the flav0rs a little m0re. He puts a little milk 0ver the t0p. I kn0w what y0u mean ab0ut being a meat eater, Glenda. Me, t00. But fried f00ds d0n't agree with me much lately. Dr. Harry says I need my gall bladder 0ut--say WHAT??
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friedag
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Yoyobon, "Harry" and "hairy" are homophones to me, but my pronunciation does not include what you call the "Flat A."

I am not as familiar with East Coast U.S. accents and dialects as I probably should be. Besides the Kennedy accent that Winter describes, about the only thing that stands out to me about the Boston accent is how some, but not all, Bostonians I've known will say "Bwa-stuhn" for the name of their city.

I showed my ignorance when an acquaintance told me he was from "Lon-Guyland" and I asked him, "Where is that?"

I enjoy most accents and dialects, but some of English speakers are more impenetrable to me than others.

Residents of my state are annoyed when U.S. mainlanders (especially) misspell the name of the 50th state as Hawaii. They should know better. Its proper, official name is Hawai'i. The symbol that looks like an apostrophe on most keyboards -- the okina -- indicates a glottal stop and is considered a letter just as much as consonants and vowels are. This misspelling -- Hawaii -- doesn't bother me very much because I spent forty years of my life spelling it that way. I consider it an anglicization. But I'm very careful to include the okina in most Hawaiian words. I learned the hard way. :-)
yoyobon_gw
Original Author
7 years ago
Okay......audio:

"hairy"

https://search.aol.com/aol/search?s_it=webmail-searchbox&q=how%20to%20pronounce%20Harry%20and%20hairy

"Harry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--st8KSRHjc
annpanagain
7 years ago
Young girls in Australia tend to speak in quick high voices too. Then there are distinct regional accents although you might think Aussies all sound alike!

I still retain my original English accent but was taken for an Aussie when I went back to the UK to live for a while. Like Winter (Hello to you!) I need subtitles but that is because I can't pick up swift speech. I tend to use self-checkouts at the supermarkets. I like to have people face me when they speak! And no thank you, I am not going to get a hearing aid, so stop calling me about appointments for a test! Or solar panels. And my computer is working just fine!

One of the problems about staying at home is getting so many phone solicitations! Even though being on the Do Not Call register!
vee_new
7 years ago
To us in the UK the Boston accent sounds quite English . . . nb not 'British' Winter and Donna! No such thing as a 'British accent' which would have to take in the whole of England, Scotland, Wales and parts of Ireland. Huge regional variations among them and some, for eg such as a Glasgow accent, almost impenetrable.

The 'valley girl' accent described by woodnymph is most annoying. High pitched, sin-song, rising inflections . .. and very limited vocabulary. "So, I said to her and she said to me and so he looked at me and . .. cool"
yoyobon_gw
Original Author
7 years ago
Vee....and don't forget to scatter " like " liberally in the sentence .
annpanagain
7 years ago
Also the bane of Judge Judy "basically"! I always wait for her explosion on hearing that! We get her program at 3pm, a good time to sit down and relax with my afternoon tea and cake.
msmeow
7 years ago
Vee, thanks for the clarification! Using the term "British accent" would be akin to saying "American accent" when there are huge differences across the US. :)

I've noticed people from the Pittsburgh area using that rising inflection so that everything sounds like a question.

Donna
yoyobon_gw
Original Author
7 years ago
Donna, that rising inflection is everywhere. It's a habit that teens especially seems to adopt. Not sure how it started but it certainly is distracting .
User
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
AnnPan...we are, indeed, two peas in a pod. Even to our name. But mine's with an "e". :-) We must be long separated twins!

I don't know your geographic area but Nomorobo solved all my unwanted solicitation calls. Peace and tranquility finally reigns. I, too, used to utilized the do-not-call register but it never did what this app does. If you can use Nomorobo, I highly recommend it. All necessary calls, i.e. doctors, etc., ring through but the annoying solicitations or unidentified callers are blocked. It's simply wonderful. And, if you find you don't like it, you can always remove it.

https://www.nomorobo.com/

Vee...you have the valley girl dialogue down to a tee. :-) Like [for you YoYo] wow! LOL

And you're quite correct. The Boston accent does sound English rather than British.
yoyobon_gw
Original Author
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
The Valley girl is someone who suffers from 'affluenza'.....it's all, like, in the attitude !
User
7 years ago
LOL I just love starting my day off with a giggle. Thanks YoYo.
friedag
7 years ago
Math? Perhaps this is the only area where kids are better educated than we ever were. -- from yoyobon's opening post

Perhaps in some ways they are, but I know some children and teenagers -- even twentysomethings -- who cannot tell time on a round-faced clock ( half past and a quarter past or a quarter to are meaningless to them). Many don't know how to make change or count it back. Learning the multiplication tables doesn't seem to be required nowadays -- why bother to memorize when you can punch the numbers into a calculator and get an instant answer?

My niece tells me that she hates, hates, hates when I say, for example, six-hundred K instead of six-hundred thousand. I said something cost fifteen-hundred dollars, and I thought she was going to blow a gasket, yelling that there is no such number as fifteen hundred. I gave up trying to inform her otherwise. :-)
annpanagain
7 years ago
Winter, thanks but as I am in Australia, I don't know if I can access that useful blocker. It would be lovely not to be disturbed during meal times! As we are in different time zones I have even had fake calls from the Taxation Office at 7am!

Could we be long lost twins? I was born in May 1937 :-)
User
7 years ago
Ann...give it a try. Go through the motions with the signup on their website. They're a safe site. Nomorobo is a VOIP service [also available now for land lines]. I found an old list of the internet systems that carry Nomorobo and it was extensive. I don't know how you access the internet so I can't help but I think it might be worth trying.

I used to get calls at all hours of the night and early morning. I had fired a newspaper service and the delivery person launched a get-even scheme against me. I'd answer the phone thinking it was a family emergency and the caller would hang up. Or it would be some deviant. The calls drove me bonkers. And the worst part was I couldn't legally identify the caller. Since subscribing to this service I haven't received one nuisance call....from anyone. It's heavenly!

We are about a year apart in age. Long lost twins? Sounds possible to me. :-)
vee_new
7 years ago
Long Lost Twins? Only their Mother could tell them apart. I love that line!
kathy_t
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Annpan - If you chose a seasonal screen name, which season would it be? (This is a test to see whether you and Winter really are twins.)
msmeow
7 years ago
Back to the topic of the three Rs...in the book I am reading the author (or editor) used the work "dusky" twice on one page when they meant "dusty" (the character was in a library basement looking through old books), then a few pages later someone "waived" to another person. Geesh.

Donna
User
7 years ago
You two [Vee and Kathy] are fun gals. :-) It's so nice to keep a smile going. I, especially, appreciate it. If my geographic area gets one more inch of rain or the humidity rises any higher...I'm sure I shall collapse into a pile of mush! As it is...I can barely breath just going from my front door to my mailbox. July has evolved into a dreadful summer month...and all frivolity is greatly appreciated. :-)
kathy_t
7 years ago
Donna/Msmeow - Out of curiosity, are you reading a self-published book?
friedag
7 years ago
Hmmm. It seems that posters to this thread are much more interested in words than numbers. <smile>

That's natural for book people, I suppose.. Words are certainly where I will gravitate first. Is that true for each of you?

Yoyobon, I'm wondering about when you included new math in your topic: did you expect much, or any, discussion of it?

I was reasonably good at math when I was in school, and some of the best teachers I ever had were in math classes. Any teacher who managed to help me understand trigonometry, calculus, and quantitative analysis must have been outstanding. I had no affinity for mathematics beyond arithmetic, some algebra, and geometry which I enjoyed immensely but, alas, forgot too soon.
User
7 years ago
Actually...I was trying to be quiet for a while :-) but I was very interested in your first posting about this subject, Frieda. I do no cash transactions any more thanks to the ever present and increasing lack of simple math skills of those at the registers. It became too frustrating to have to repeatedly school young people in addition and subtraction skills involving pennies, nickels and dimes. I finally surrendered to credit cards only so I could complete my business transactions in an expeditious manner. As in...home before dark!

What really bothers me is that the lack of mathematical skills affects more than just making change. IMO, reason and logic...as well as other life survival skills...are all based on mathematics. Want to buy a car...or a house...or just join the local muscle building gym? You better know how to add and subject. The virtual world of tools and gadgets has, supposedly, simplified life for the majorities but not from where I sit. If you can't reconcile your monthly credit card statement, you're at the mercy of scammers and other criminals.

Sadly...I must disagree with YoYo. I don't think the younger generation are better educated in math than we were. They may be better at operating digital equipment than we are but given time, I doubt that, as well. Every engineering skill that I'm familiar with involves one form of mathematics or another. And it takes engineering skills to build the digital equipment that those busy little fingers so enjoy.

OK Back to being quiet for a while. :-) Just didn't want you to be out here all alone.
friedag
7 years ago
Winter, thank you for responding. I appreciate the company.

I hope you don't feel you should be quiet very often. I recognize lots of nuggets in every post you make.

IMO, reason and logic...as well as other life survival skills...are all based on mathematics. -- Winter

As much as I love words, I think they are only half of what it takes for us humans to communicate effectively. Mathematics are the biggest portion of the other half. Or maybe math is the half and words are the biggest portion of the other half. :-)

Btw, I've been remiss in not welcoming you sooner. I am now saying I am glad you are here!
User
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Oh my goodness. Thank you, Frieda. "Frieda" is a cherished family name of mine and as such, holds a very dear spot in my memory.

I agree with you that words are only half of the package...and the lesser valuable member of the package if we are to recognize the power of thought.

I remember childhood adages such as "Only speak when spoken to." which held far more logic than most small tykes could recognize. Whether it was intended to do so at the time...or to just quiet childish chatter...it stayed in memory and served me well as I grew. As a rule...I think...people miss so very much by not listening. That's the another part of the package. Actually...IMO...an extremely valuable part.

IMO...one must learn to listen. As an adult, I can only proffer that the world as we know it today might be a far, far better place if more thought were given before the words are uttered. As readers, we diagnose the words we read. Perhaps without realizing we do so. We use thought and logic...as well as a form of our listening powers...for the words we read so we may assimilate either a story line or a thesis and give it personal identity. IMO...that's the joy of the printed word. It's a gift and it's all ours for a time...to enjoy and reason with.

And on that note...I bid you fond goodnight from the east coast. Thank you for inviting my opinion.
vee_new
7 years ago
Winter, please send some of your rain UK-ward. After a sudden monsoon on the last night of May and a couple of 'drizzle' incidents we have had none of the usual wet-stuff. Vegetables and fruit are wilting, our local dairy herd eat yellow grass as tough as hedgehog skins, reservoirs are drying out . . . we here have little sense when it comes to conserving water . . . and so far not even a rumble of thunder.

I know other parts of the world are used to extreme heat, although it is certainly pan-European at the moment, but we are just not geared to days in the 90's. Even the Indian cricket team playing here for the summer have had to reduce the number of days of play!

Terrible loss of life in Greek fires, forests blazing in Sweden, even moorland ablaze in the North of England.

Greek Wildfires
annpanagain
7 years ago
Kathy, I would choose Spring, my favourite month.

I do wish I could send rain to the UK. I am sick of it this year. So continuous and depressing!
vee_new
7 years ago
yoyo, re. the 'New' maths. When at college way back in the early-mid 60's we were 'shown' eg's of what would be the 'new' maths equipment. Coloured rods which demonstrated the 'times-tables', blocks and cubes of different sizes to show?? (can't remember) Tutors explained that although we didn't understand them (or how to use them) kids would just 'get' that 5 green rods and 7 blue rods equalled so many purple rods.

Maybe these now 'grown-ups' see the number 35 as purple but I don't think it helps in a quick calculation while out shopping.

And Frieda, over here I believe we have some of the worst maths teaching in Europe. They may be brilliant mathematicians but sharing their knowledge in such a way as to make it understandable and even 'fun' seems way beyond most of them.

I think we have schemes over here to offer extra money to would-be maths teachers. Don't know how many have taken up the challenge.
annpanagain
7 years ago
Vee, I learned a lot about simple addition from Carol Vordeman in her Countdown segment. Some people were very snooty that she only had a "third" but it meant little to me and probably others who were unfamiliar with the University system. Teachers who might have had better qualifications hadn't been able to make mathematics clear and as for the teaching of grammar!

I am one of those people who cannot carry figures in their head. If I have to transfer numbers from my notes to a computer or vice versa, I have to check and recheck, especially if I am doing internet shopping!
friedag
7 years ago
. . . over here I believe we have some of the worst maths teaching in Europe. - Vee

The perception in the U.S. among many students, parents, and people in general is we have the worst math teaching in the world. That is partly borne out by the poor performances of U.S. students on those tests that rank students from all the countries that participate in the testing. In the U.S. there is a lot of moaning and handwringing over it.

I have yet to make up my mind about plausible explanations. Some people blame the teachers but others blame the caliber of students being taught. Perhaps it is some of both. On my cynical and skeptical days I wonder whether it is a lot of hogwash to perpetuate anxiety.

What are your theories?
yoyobon_gw
Original Author
7 years ago
As a retired teacher I can say that the new methods of teaching math concepts to children is really great, at least here in NYS. As you are aware I'm sure, educational standards are not the same all over the US so I cannot speak for other states.
User
7 years ago
IMO...there's plenty of blame to go around for our dismal display of mathematical aptitude.

Let's start with the parents who allowed their children to use a machine to find their answers rather than learning the rote system. If I recall correctly, it started in the mid '60s.

Then, the teachers who encouraged the use of this equipment because it was easier for them to move a class along to the next level if they didn't have to invest the necessary time to teach the basics to the point that the student actually comprehended the logic they were being taught.

Let us not forget the student who was suddenly freed from investing hours of study time thereby becoming available for after school interests.

Industry needs to accept their share of the blame, too. Their new digital equipment was happily received and thereby their production increased exponentially. They helped to disguise the loss of the thinking/reasoning powers that were occurring with the generation that needed them the most.

Every inventor/creator, purveyor and user had a hand in this current mathematically limping populace. Can we repair the mess? Maybe...if the teaching begins at home where it took a lazy wrong turn to begin with. Back to basics!

That's part of my opinion and now, if you'll excuse me...there's a vacuum cleaner awaiting my direction over miles and miles of carpet. :-) Ta-ta!
friedag
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Yoyobon, what are some of the new methods you taught to get across math concepts to the children? You said above New Math (whatever variety) -- how many varieties are there now? Are there Versions 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, etc.? It's good to know of the success in New York State, but you're right that educational standards are different from state to state. If you prefer posting a link to an explanation of New York-style New Math, that's fine with me. You have piqued my curiosity.

Winter, I can't disagree with any of your ideas -- unfortunately. :-) I will have to ponder your post some more. Thank you.

I recall that circa 1964 my school cohort was introduced to what was called new math then. We were already in junior high (middle school) at the time so we had been taught the old basic methods for many years. I saw some of the new equipment Vee mentioned, but those things weren't used on us, perhaps because we were considered too old. Instead we were started on changing base 10 to other bases. It took the class so long to grasp the concept and the purpose behind it that those darn bases were about all we learned that first semester. When we returned after a holiday break for the second semester, the bases were not mentioned again. Apparently we went back to the basic methods and the new math was just an experiment. Younger students continued on with NM, I think.
vee_new
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
My goodness Frieda, I had forgotten all about the then 'new' idea of base 10 ( or any other 'bases') and now remember that I had been sent to a very boring course on learning about them. It was all so meaningless to us that everyone doodled or looked out of the window. Being a smart-arse, I asked the tutor how one used 'base 10' to do long-division. She spent some time explaining this concept which dragged out the lecture. I was not popular and none of us understood what she was saying. Of course with a computer all this can be worked out in nano seconds.
vee_new
7 years ago
Winter, I think the use of 'machines' ie pocket calculators probably didn't come in until the 70's - 80's when microchips became small and cheap enough to fit into hand held devices. But they certainly paved the way to 'easy reckoning' and little further need for memory or increased brain-function.

Re lack of mathematical ability/interest in the US or the UK. We keep hearing about the shortage of young people. especially women, with maths interest going into engineering and how these skills are being lost from the West while being encouraged in China . . .just look at the huge number of heavy engineering and tech projects being undertaken in Africa by Chinese and other far Eastern firms.

Our Govts should be encouraging students to take up places and firms need more financial backing to give these young people apprenticeships to enable them to develop the skills 'for the future'.

It all goes back to teaching the basics from the earliest school years and making maths more meaningful and purposeful.
yoyobon_gw
Original Author
7 years ago
https://mathguideparents.wordpress.com/teach-children-mathematics/the-new-math-vs-old/
friedag
7 years ago
Yoyobon, I appreciate the link you provided.

After a quick read-through, I see some good points and perhaps some stumbling blocks. This tickles me:

Common core math or “The New Math” is really not that different from the old way of solving problems using old Math. -- the author of The Math Guide for Parents website
friedag
7 years ago
Winter and Vee: Do you also think there's something to the aspect of "Here we are now, entertain us" (Lyrics sung by Kurt Cobain in Nirvana's 'Smells Like Teen Spirit') in the lack of interest by youthful westerners for anything that takes added effort to learn? Maybe eastern youths don't expect school to be another venue for amusement, at least not as often.

Pop songs are not usual conveyors of wisdom, but occasionally they do hit the truth on the head with a line or two, I think.
yoyobon_gw
Original Author
7 years ago
I have noticed that school for children today is a lot more work, especially daily homework, starting in first grade.
User
7 years ago
Hmmm Interesting question, Frieda.

First...let me thank Vee. You're right. The time frame was in the '70s. I was living in Northern California then and had a grandson [by marriage] who was grade school age at the time. The public school wanted to introduce calculators into the math classes and were concerned enough to ask parents if they would approve their use. After considerable thought and discussion, we, as a family, replied that we wanted our son/grandson to be schooled in the basics before he was introduced to a calculator. The school complied. Was my grandson happy with our input? Heck...no! But today he's better off because he was forced to learn his tables, etc the old fashioned way. And...he'd be the first to admit that.

As for the ..."entertain us" attitude...I can't say that I've seen that on the public school level here in the East. I have witnessed it in the private sector but not to the point that I think it actually causes harm. It should be noted that I'm rather removed from that venue these days...being slightly age challenged as well as geographically removed from younger family members. :-)

However...beyond all conjecture...I stand firm in my belief that the home and parents are where the basics should begin. The more shattered and dysfunctional that stage is...the more desperate our young people become. They need a solid support system that will guide them through their formative years, that will encourage them to learn the basics and show them how to use them. Without that...as we see all too often these days...many of them are lost both to a functioning society and to the educated work place.

If a television is the only home entertainment offering, then children loose the option to learn the basic tools of imagination. Plus they accept that there are instant solutions to life's annoying problems. Need white teeth? Or a way to relieve pain? Or the wherewithal to buy a new car? There's an immediate product or purveyor for that without much effort involved.

Then the question becomes...who's at fault and where do we place the blame. Did parents knowingly jeopardize their children? In most cases...I don't think so. Also, there's a lot to be said for the validity of the statement that it takes a village to raise a child.

Was it greed? The need to have it all? The desire to give our children everything after the Depression and WWII? Perhaps. But I don't believe it was done with malice or forethought. The problem is that there's always a price to pay for change and advancement. This price was greater and more severe than anyone could have imagined. And we all lost...IMO. Now the question needs to be how do we "fix" it.

I apologize for the length of my reply. This is a subject near and dear to me.
donnamira
7 years ago
My grandkids are being taught multiple ways to do the arithmetical operations, and while they showed me the different methods, they seemed incredibly cumbersome to me. :) Apparently the methods are designed to make more sense for different types of learning abilities. But then, I never had any trouble with basic arithmetic (although I can't do the numbers in my head either!), and I enjoyed math when we got into algebra, trig and calculus. I still remember how excited I was to finally get the concept of a mathematical limit, which happened with a geometry example rather than the traditional calculus-based explanation. By the way, learning the different bases (base 2, base 8, etc) turned out to be HIGHLY useful when computers became commonplace. I had to use it in my first job (sitting on the operations console for a satellite) because the spacecraft clock was an 8-bit computer and therefore octal. It became so second nature that once I had trouble balancing my checkbook, then realized I was using the wrong number base. Duh!

The Isaac Asimov story, The Feeling of Power, is germane to this discussion. :) A short-short, you can read it in a few minutes. Asimov: The Feeling of Power
User
7 years ago
That is a great piece, Donnamira. Thank you.

Imagine! "...liberation from the machine...!" That ought to give us all something to ponder this evening.
User
7 years ago
I've noticed that, too, YoYo. Of course, there are days when I'm sure I traveled across country in a covered wagon age-wise...but I don't remember even having homework until I reached Jr.high school and I don't seem to have suffered any loss of intelligence because of that. As a matter of fact, I might have gained a little by having the time to enjoy the world around me. Granted I grew up in the country and laying on a tree branch contemplating Mother Nature was a beloved pass time but even my friend in a more urban area found entertaining ways to enjoy her free time that didn't involved unlawful pursuits.

Personally, I think all this new attitude involving mountains of homework is unnecessary. The pressure that's forced upon our young people today is unreasonable for an adult. Never mind a young mind trying to mature. The system's demands are impossible to satisfy except by only a few extremely talented minds. And we wonder why so many of our young people turn to methods of escapism.

My time spent hanging out on that tree limb wasn't wasteful by any stretch of the imagination. It gave me time to assimilate the day's events; the lessons being taught; how to apply them and most precious of all...time to daydream; use my imagination and exercise my creativity. I would be but a hollow shell today had I not had that time. In the long run, it gave me the capability to rise to every life challenge that's come my way since those early years. And...trust me...there have been many...way too many..and varied.
yoyobon_gw
Original Author
7 years ago
There have been books written encouraging parents to opt out of homework for their children, stating that the school day is long enough to teach the concepts. Children require time to play and be creative outside of school and not be saddled with yet more papers and projects ...many assigned during holidays. The biggest problem with homework for parents is that they must help the child, consequently they have the stress of their own day and then are expected to teach their child the lessons of the day.

Last year, in 3rd grade, my grandson had a teacher who proclaimed that their homework assignment every weekend was to go outside and play and have fun ! She was also very careful not to give homework every night, but only as necessary. Needless to say he enjoyed that year more than any other because he had less stress in and out of class.
msmeow
7 years ago
Winter, I read books and ate dill pickles while hanging out on my tree limb. :)

Donna
yoyobon_gw
Original Author
7 years ago
MATH THROUGH THE YEARS ( in US ) :

1. Teaching Math In The 1950’s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit ?

2.. Teaching Math In The 1960's
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?

3.. Teaching Math In The 1970's
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80. Did he make a profit?

4.. Teaching Math In The 1980's
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: underline the number 20.

5.. Teaching Math In 1990's
A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands He does this so he can make a profit of $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no wrong answers, and if you feel like crying, it's ok.)

6.. Teaching Math In The 2000's
Same question as number 5 but if you have special needs or just feel you need assistance because of race, color, religion, sex, age, childhood memories, criminal background, then don't answer and the correct answer will be provided for you.

7.. Teaching Math In 2018
Un hachero vende una carrtada de madera para 100
pesos El costo dela producciones es 80 pesos. Cuanto dinero ha hecho?
msmeow
7 years ago
Very funny, Bon!
User
7 years ago
Sorry! I don't find that funny at all. But my reactions are rarely the popular norm.

And, Donna...I wasn't permitted to take books from my family library into the outside areas of flora and fauna. In addition to having a deep reverence for the printed word...if the book had fallen from my hands into the stream below...my life would have taken a similar and severe downward trend for my lack of good judgment. Of course, we must remember that paperback books weren't available when I was climbing trees. Dill pickles. Yes. But I wasn't a snacker. :-)
annpanagain
7 years ago
I got the joke! However, I don't recall climbing trees, I used to skin my knees enough just walking on pavements. It was a coming of age at around eleven when I stopped falling over. Probably because we moved to a newer suburb with more even pavements!

The 3 R's.....changed to RPNM ??

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