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Meyer Lemon weird growth?

Donna R zone 6a

5 years ago

I used to have 4 Meyer lemons. I am in NE Ohio so they winter in my home. Scale infestations killed 3 of them and now I only have one. It has one measly branch out of the main stem, plus this weird all green (meaning the branch has no brown on it like a normal branch does). This branch is growing straight up with long 1.5" thorns. The leaves look a little different on this branch too. Is this a sucker that should be removed? I am battling scale on this tree. Also, how often should I spray with the Neem oil mixture? I seem to remember that the life cycle of the scale must be disrupted, and I am not sure how long that life cycle is. Also-should the soil be sprayed? The scale keeps coming back, and eventually kills everything! Thanks to anyone who can help.

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Denise Becker

5 years ago

The growth you pictured is from the rootstock which is below the graft. The graft is that large bumpy thing in your photos. I must admit I have never seen a graft that has swollen up as big as yours. That long shoot you originally inquired about should be removed unless you have a desire to graft other varieties onto it or you want to see what it does if left alone.

I don't know anything about rootstock so I cannot help you there. Sorry.

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Comments (20)

Denise Becker
5 years ago
Nobody can help you without pictures I am afraid. It sounds like a sucker but nobody can say for sure without looking at it. I don't use neem oil myself. I use malathion whenever I have an infestation and only have to apply it once.
Donna R zone 6a thanked Denise Becker
rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
5 years ago
Donna, what kind of scale is it?
Donna R zone 6a thanked rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
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Yes, for the existing damage, being waterlogged would be a likely culprit. Also the reason for not having roots near the bottom of the pot - root rot. However now that you've repotted - and its been awhile since you did that, right? Now your concern is that it isn't showing new growth. I'm not sure that it would under the current circumstances - but I'm not sure that's a problem yet. I'm surprised that the closet is only 65F even with 4 32W T8s in there! How are you measuring that temp? I get 85F easily under 4 32W T8 bulbs. I keep a fan running most of the time to keep the temps down. I think your light is sufficient for overwintering maintenance, but most likely insufficient to promote new growth. It also matters how close to the lights the plant is - I keep mine within an inch or two of the bulbs and will be adding lights hung vertically along the back now that they're getting bigger. With your setup, light penetration is probably not that great given the size of the tree. On the other hand, with so few leaves, I suppose there's not much to actually block it. But seriously, fluorescent light doesn't penetrate very far even in the absence of a lot of leaf coverage, so your 4 T8s are not, perhaps, as effective as one might think. What kind of critters are you trying to keep out of the plant - like pets? Cats or something? Because there is a problem with shutting it up in the closet like that, several actually. First is lack of air movement. Second is potential heat build-up from the 4 T8s. (BTW I'm assuming the closet is empty of clothes - right?) Third is humidity buildup. All of these can contribute to pest and disease problems over the long haul. I, too, have my lights set up in my closet - but I removed the closet doors and there is NO CLOTHING whatsoever in the closet. Just my wire shelves with the plants and lights. I keep an oscillating fan running most of the day. I've never bothered with a fan before but I was sort of shocked by how hot it can get under those fluorescents. They easily topped 100F when I first installed them. Now that we're on heat instead of AC, they can get up to the high 80s even though I have the vent closed in my room. So I would be surprised if its only 65F in that closet unless its on an outside wall with no/poor insulation? My advice is to remove the fruit, keep the lights as close to the plant as possible, get some air movement going - block the animals out with pressure mounted gates or something if that's an issue. Be patient, expect the plant to be pretty dormant for awhile. As long as it doesn't get any worse, that's something. If, after a few weeks, they're STILL not doing anything, you may just need more light. In the absence of other issues like over or underwatering, of course. I haven't had an indoor tree that size for decades - not since my mother "accidentally" killed my bonsai while I was at summer camp one year. So maybe my expectations are off. But given the recent trauma, and given the light levels you are currently able to provide, I'm not surprised the plant is in a holding pattern. Just an observation - after a disastrous experiment with half "cool" and half "warm" (so-called) several years ago, I ONLY use 6500k bulbs now. That year was the only year I've had seed starting failures, and the whole season was pretty much a dead loss. I have no idea what the old 40W T-12 bulbs were rated at, colorwise, but it seems to me they had to have been not very good - yet we routinely started everything and anything under T-12s for literally decades. They got hotter, too. So I wouldn't THINK that it would matter much what the "color temperature" is with the T8s, but apparently it does. My plants just seem to do better with only 6500k bulbs. You might consider swapping the 3500k bulbs out for more 6500k ... just food for thought.
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I noticed the same issue with mine in years past (it is potted), and it seemed raising the fertilizer dose gave it the nudge it needed to stop being prissy and grow more foliage. On the plus side, you probably won't need to wait a year, as these things nearly continuously bloom.
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nikthegreek
5 years ago
If a product used does not do the job you want it to do, maybe you should consider using something else.
Donna R zone 6a thanked nikthegreek
Donna R zone 6a
Original Author
5 years ago
Rhizo, I don't know what kind of scale it is. It is brown. Since most of the branches have died, I only have one branch left. I hadn't sprayed it for a few weeks and I am pretty sure I saw little tiny ones on the other side of the leaf. They seem to congregate along the vein.

Nikthegreek, I have searched online, and the only thing that isn't toxic is the neem oil. Neem oil comes from a plant. When mixed with water, you can apply it and what it does, is suffocate the scale. But I am sure I am dealing with life cycles- i.e., eggs and such.

Denise, I am afraid to use malathion on something that we could potentially eat.
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johnmerr
5 years ago
I think you just have what we call a water sprout; the leaves will be bigger and it will have big thorns. Just cut it back to about half its growth and it should resort to normal growth
miscel
5 years ago
johnmerr - Can you leave the water sprout alone or is it better to cut it in half? I've been leaving the water sprouts as is.
nikthegreek
5 years ago
Curare comes from a plant too..
jenny_in_se_pa
5 years ago
Can you get a zoom-in pic of the part of the trunk where the sprout is located (including showing just above to the branching point and just below)? It looks like that shoot is coming from the rootstock unless the tree was originally from a cutting.

Also if you are seeing small insects along leaf veins, they may be something else too (although scale could be on the leaves when in "crawler" stage). You may want to consider isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol swabbing of them (with q-tips and/or cotton balls), which would be easier to do with your tree at this point since the branches are accessible and not densely foliated. After any treatment, make sure you keep the tree out of direct sun.
Amy (montreal, canada)
5 years ago
I am with jenny on this one. The leaves look like trifoliate but I am not sure because the pictures is not clear enought.
Denise Becker
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Donna, I understand your concern about spraying your tree with malathion, but you have no fruit on your tree. Do you consume the leaves? The spray is safe to use up until within 14 days of harvest. I don't like applying anything to my trees either, but there are times when you just have to bite the bullet. When I spray my trees, I place a plastic bag on top of the soil and wrap it around the trunk as tight as I can. I don't want it dripping into my soil either.

You have to consider that commercial farmers spray their trees with something in their orchards and I cannot imagine it being neem oil. It's not practical. Good luck with eliminating the infestation.

Look at those thorns. That alone would encourage me to cut it off.
Donna R zone 6a
Original Author
5 years ago
I have a closer up photo of the area where the weird growth is. Above I see a reference to trifoliate. The leaves do have groups of three type leaves. I am curious whether to cut the whole thing off or cut back by one half as suggested above. If anyone can comment on the split bark on this tree and what causes that I would appreciate it. Last

photo is blurry-sorry-I must have gotten too close to photograph.
sunshine (zone 6a, Ontario,Canada)
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
I would cut that rootstock sucker with those spikes right away, it is taking the energy away from the emerging new growth. I don't know why the bark is split on your tree. Does your container have holes in it? (One hole in a container is not enough).
Donna R zone 6a thanked sunshine (zone 6a, Ontario,Canada)
Donna R zone 6a
Original Author
5 years ago
Sunshine, the container I have it in only has 3 holes that are about 1/2" across.
poncirusguy6b452xx
5 years ago
My typical containers
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Sam Catalina
5 years ago
Hi! I feel like this is a relatable post, let me know if I should post elsewhere. I'm not sure if this is a sucker on my ML. It's smack dab on the graft line and if it's not a sucker, it would be a perfect branch to help fill out my leggy little treeling. Thanks a bunch for your help!
poncirusguy6b452xx
5 years ago
No get rid of it.
Sam Catalina
5 years ago
'Nuff said, thank you for your help poncirusguy! Do you have any pointers on how I might come to that conclusion on my own in the future? Is there anything else you're noting (besides the proximity to the graft line) that would help me to ID this as a sucker? Thanks!
poncirusguy6b452xx
5 years ago
It is so close to the divide between rootstock and Meyer Lemon that it is not worth taking a chance on it being a ML branch. If you are wrong then you may loose your tree. Error on the save side. If you know that the root stock is a poncirus/Hybrid then any suckers will have leaves like poison ivy. You have a strong trunk that should develop into a very nice productive tree.
Sam Catalina
5 years ago
Gotcha, thank you so much for your help!

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