I used to sell Polywhey and really liked it. That being said it takes A LOT of education to get USED to the product. The 'hardener' comes from the cheese industry ("...eating her curds and whey"). The milk proteins are HEAVIER than the polyurethane they are floating in. That means the BOTTOM of the can will be covered in 1-3 INCHES of gooey clumpy "stuff". You need to stir the b'Jesus out of that (5 minutes with an electric mixing paddle sounds just about right). And no I'm not kidding about the effort or the TIME.

It takes a SERIOUS amount of stirring (do NOT shake...please never ever shake!!!!) to get the product ready for use. That's fine. Don't worry about it. But you need to KNOW this before you apply the product only to find all the hardener stuck to the bottom of the can and the finish scratching as soon as you look at it.

Once Polywhey (or anything from Vermont Natural Coatings) is stirred and ready to use, it goes on easily. It has a nice working edge of 15 minutes. It is best to use a t-bar applicator because it can bubble if a roller is used (not always...but sometimes).

Vermont Natural Coatings is a US company that is (yep you guessed it) located in the heart of cheese country in Vermont. Their VOC content is outstanding! To some it smells like a melted milkshake (almost no odour at all).

Your preparation is going to need to be superb. All of the old finish MUST be removed before water based finishes can be used. Polywhey is no different. All polyurethanes "stain" if oil is spilled on them and not QUICKLY cleaned up (Polywhey is no different).

Wearability isn't an issue with Polywhey. Like all polyurethanes they build strength with the 3 coat system. Lorraine at VNC will be happy to walk you through all the COMMERCIAL applications their products have been used on. Libraries and gymnasium floors abound. And the beauty of polywhey is it comes in gallons and quarts...so you don't have to have so much wasted product left over.

I would not hesitate to use polywhey in a kitchen. Just make sure you UNDERSTAND the process. The hardener is at the BOTTOM and it MUST BE STIRRED heavily before you start and on a routine basis as you continue.

Thanks SJ. I’m not going to applying it DIY but I’ll definitely go through the details (rap stirring) with my finisher if I get the Vermont.

I’d love to hear from any DIYers or customers out there who have used either product.

It’s going down tomorrow. The finisher has been prepped. Very excited!

Share pictures when its all finished. What kind of pine is your flooring?

I definitely will. I’m not sure what type of pine. It’s thin-width 1950 (Louisiana). Longleaf is native here but may have all been harvested by 1950. Here is a “before” pic.

You run a VERY high risk of the Polywhey NOT sticking. It isn't the polywhey that has the problem it is the aluminum oxide. It makes for a VERY slick (chemically speaking) surface.

If I were you I would do a couple of test planks with the sanding (such high grit isn't going to take off the AO finish...it's just going to knock down the rough edges) technique and then coat it with polywhey (they sell quarts). I would then leave them alone for 1-2 weeks. You will then come back and use your finger nail to try to peel the polywhey off the edge of the plank. If you can't, you will then move to the proper 'adhesion test' which is to use a cross hatch cut 'X' in the finish (utility knives work very well for this) and then use high-tack tape to pull off the finish (put the tape over the 'X' and pull). If ANY of the polywhey comes off then you have adhesion failure.

Regardless of the adhesion, you are going to create a gloss difference. If you can knock down the roughness on the edge using by sanding I would leave the planks alone. The AO finish should be intact. The high-grit sanding will do very little to the gloss level and will do very little to the toughness of the finish.

If you are going to do this, you might as well stick with the simplest solution = do the sanding and install the wood. You probably don't need to bother with the application of new finish on the edges. It can and will cause more problems than it solves.

oh wow. Thanks a lot SJ.

By seeing the fine dust coming out from sanding, I was worried my sanding the bevels will take off the protection later and make the bevels equal to unfinished wood surface and cause other issues of too much humidity absorption. If its not, then Im happy to wipe them clean and leave them alone.

And yes, I have seen that. After sanding the bevels of a few planks, I mistakenly picked the one that was already done and saw the Aluminium oxide coat was still there and did it again thinking I never did it before. After the second round of sanding also, I still saw the bevel a bit glossy.

I did the sanding for some 50 planks yesterday evening and set them to fit to eachother as a floor, without nailing, just to be clean. Today morning I can see the sanded edges clearly by standing next to them. Does that mean I sanded too much or ate away all the protective coat? Is there anyway to confirm if the top coat is still there? I will upload a couple pics in the next reply, as I have to do it from my phone.

From now on, I will do controlled sanding.

After I'm done with installing, I will try the adhesion test on a couple extra planks, just to try and learn a bit about the polywhey. Thats my future finish for sure.

Btw, you mentioned "my original plan will only cause more troubles than solving". Can you please throw in a couple that you can think of, other than the gloss difference. Is Adhesion and peeling are the main issues? Just for my knowledge sake and can help with any other silly thoughts that can creep in as I get going.

Activity on this post reminded me - this is for Oak & Broad, the finished floor.

HU sorry to hear about the adhesion issues.

Well, I don't have adhesion issues yet, as SJ saved me from going that route. As of now Im dealing with imperfections and roughness on my prefinished hickory :(

Btw, did you face nail your planks? Or am I seeing it wrong. If yes, as there a reason for that?

The easiest way to tell if you have finish is to add a drop of water. If it beads (sits as a lovely round bubble of water on the surface) you still have finish. If it absorbs in (like a thirsty deck wood that hasn't seen finish in a decade) very quickly then you have raw wood.

I can't tell if you have sanded down to raw wood. It's hard to tell the raw 'tongue' vs. the sanded bevel. Put a few together and then take a pic. Hopefully there are no colour variations with the finish (really pale wood) when you do that.

Thanks a lot SJ. I did the water drop test. For some planks, the drop stayed like a bead and no mark left after wiping as well. And I can see the shiny coat on the bevel. So I dint cause any damage there. I will do the same controlled sanding for the rest.

But on another one, there are the bevels which absorbed the drop a bit and there is a slight wet patch left after wiping the drop, which dried in a few secs. But not a very thirsty suck of the drop though. Does it means the aluminum oxide coat is gone or partially gone? And this can be the case with some, if the roughness is a bit high.

The pictures couldn't catch the difference, but I can see some of the plank bevels have the shiny coat gone. Should I put a thin coat of some finish, for these only, along the bevels after installing?

Polyurethane is not water proof. It is water resistant but not water proof. It will slow down the transition of water from the surface into the wood but it won't stop it completely.

My guess is the edges that allowed a snick more water to reach the wood have had a snick more finish taken off. That's about as exciting as it gets.

The drop in the gloss level is not something I would worry about. You sanded a finished surface. In other words you scuffed it up so much that you reduced the gloss level. Have you removed all the finish? No. Have you reduced the gloss level? Yes of course you did. That's what sanding does.

Again, the issue with adhesion is going to be an on-going situation. Regardless of gloss loss or not. You can test treat a plank or two and leave them alone for 2 weeks (allow full cure) and then try the scratch test.

I would leave them alone. Install the floor and use it until it becomes so bad that a full sand/refinish is needed. The only way to ensure good adhesion is to do a full sand/refinish. Until you get to that point, you could be setting yourself up for failure.

This sounds a relief.

By this "Until you get to that point, you could be setting yourself up for failure", you meant if I do a coat without a full sand and refinish, I believe.

If yes, I will just sand, install and leave them. How long do I have before I hit a mark to redo, if I take proper care like humidity between 35% to 65% (winter to summer), temps 60 to 75 and no spills and regular clean ?

And btw, even the oil based poly's with aluminium oxide with a preceding sealer won't do any favor, if not waterbased?

My apologies, I know Im going over and over on this, just trying to see if I add something forgiving that can add a few more extra years than just sanding the bevels and installing.

any advise on the sealer + oil based poly option or a lacquer option please. Or even either of these options are kind of setting up for failure?

A factory finished product with aluminum oxide in the finish can offer 25+ years of service before you see WEAR THROUGH. Wear through is when the raw wood has been exposed. At the point of wear through you need to make a plank to have the floor sanded and refinished.

The little bit of sanding on the beveled edge is going to reduce the life of your floor by a few weeks. So instead of 25 years of service you can look at 24 years and 48 weeks of service. In other words, no biggy.

Relax. Install the floor. Use the floor and worry about wear through in a few decades.

:) nice explanation. Thanks a lot. I got your point. I dont want to worry about weeks loss of the floor life, even if it is 52 weeks. :P.

Funny thing is Im unable to give so much credit to the trash I purchased falling for some marketing gimmick on the youtube. But as you optimistically reduced few weeks, I will cut out a few years, may be even a decade, but now after reqding your msg, that is still fine with me, as its not just 4 or 5 years of total life of the coat, as I originally worried. Appreciate your advices.

Hi @SJ McCarthy, after installing some 12 rows, I have noticed two cracks in a plank in the seventh row, which is right in front of the door. I think those cracks occurred either during hitting the non-flush cleats with a nail set. As Im still in the beginning of installing, replacing the bad planks may be feasible tha later, if I need to. But that will lead to removing some 12 planks (the good and pretty ones).

Here are the pics - the room and the two cracks in the plank. They are in the plank with two shades, on the cream background.

What do you suggest - Replace the plank and remove and throw away the other 12 in the front of it? or is it ok to leave it and it won't get worse?

Update: we decided to move on and live with the hair cracks. Reason being, I can't promise myself that Im not going to bring on more cracks as I go through the project... :)

Hu - the floor in my kitchen is face-nailed. I didn’t install it, it’s original to the 1950 house. I suspect it was never meant to be exposed but covered with linoleum or vinyl (there were 3 layers of flooring on top this one when I moved in). It was a bear to remove them (plus the testing to make sure there were no toxic surprises in the tile or glue). obviously there had been water exposure (hence the black stains near the nails). There are also cracks that formed after I sanded and sealed it. I think they formed because the floor/subfloor isn’t even and there is some give. Like all old houses. Previously the multiple layers of vinyl were absorbing and dispersing the weight of footsteps but now that they’re gone a couple of small cracks have formed. I’ve come to accept the many many quirks an old house has to offer. New houses have them too - imperfections, problems, whatever. Learning to accept them has been a huge lesson for me I can tell you! You’ll drive yourself nuts trying to impose perfection!

But tbh, it looks more rustic and natural to me. Your kitchen I mean. I thought you introduced a character.

And ya I agree completely... its the first time we freak and then it becomes just another one in line. I was worried about my hairline crack. A best friend who is an expert in DIY projects just said, the hair cracks and errors are like scratches on our new car. We freak on the first one, then we live with them as we add more.. I agree to that analogy.

Well my car doesn't have any scratches, and it will never have in future until it dies. No one can ever put a scratch.. haha.. Really, as when I first bought it new, I was paranoid about scratches and I have covered the whole car with a 3M clear film. 8 weekends DIY project.. that was in 2013.