fragrance disease resistant and compact roses for my garden.
Comments (39)
deervssteve
5 years ago
Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
5 years agoRelated Discussions
Mixing HT's with disease resistant roses in no-spray garden
Comments (10)>Diane said: The Poulsen Parade roses are miniatures, they are not hybrid teas Hi Diane, My understanding of the two terms miniature and hybrid tea is that they are not mutually exclusive, miniature referring to bloom size and hybrid tea referring to plant form and breeding. Whether to call a modern rose a hybrid tea or simply a bush or shrub or whatever is probably entirely up to the breeder, but whoever did the Poulsen entries at Help Me Find had some reason to want to call them hybrid teas, at least those that I was looking up as possible ID's at the time my husband brought the miniatures home. Later I found a listing of the ones that a nursery in Canada was offering in 2010 and might have had a closer guess on some of them. Those that were listed at Help Me Find then were called hybrid teas. Mostly I'm assuming less than stellar disease resistance because of a generality regarding hybrid teas and the need for spraying that usually applies to some degree, but the roses I looked up actually were described as being disease resistant at Help Me Find. I downgraded the designation in my own mind though, based on trying to find some ordinary hybrid teas last year that would stand a high probability of reasonably good health in our no-spray yard... and the "disease resistant" hybrid teas I selected ended up being warned against by persons with experience trying to grow them without spraying. So I could be wrong, but I've assumed that there's a double definition for the idea of a "disease resistant" rose: one loose standard apparently applies to hybrid teas, but a more rigorous standard can be applied to older varieties not so hybridized with mainly a bloom form in mind. Diane, have you tried the Poulsen Parade roses in your yard? And did you find them unacceptably diseased without using any spraying at all? Or maybe you didn't attempt that, but if you did, I'd like to know how it turned out with no spray. We don't care about a little blackspot, but don't want a rose with leaves totally engulfed or missing either. >mad_gallica said: So I'd expect adding very susceptible varieties would have a negative impact on roses that were somewhat disease prone. The most disease prone roses will be Reine Des Violettes, Maggie, Little White Pet, and Pink Rosette. My fingers will be especially crossed on these, though I've read a number of people saying that they can grow them no-spray where they live. Most people apparently would say that we'd better cross our fingers on Gruss An Aachen, but in another (shadier!) location in the yard, our beautiful Gruss An Aachens did wonderfully well no-spray. Little White Pet is growing in far too much shade in another section of the yard, and it might be much more disease resistant once it's moved, but if it doesn't improve its disease resistance some, it won't stay. I have to say that it blooms anyway and the blooms add nice variety to a vase of flowers so I'm hoping it does improve some. These roses above will be in the neighborhood of a bunch of generally more highly disease resistant roses, and that's where the Poulsen roses would go if we put them into the ground. It's hard to decide what to do about them, but probably we'll give them a try unless it looks quite hopeless. At least they're small enough to easily dig up if they don't work out... Thanks very much to you both for the feedback! Best wishes, Mary...See MoreMost disease resistant roses for hot and humid
Comments (39)I know this is an old thread but its been very good and useful so I thought I'd chime in. All the roses i recommend have been mentioned here but I live very close to you in Zone 10 Florida so I thought I'd let you know what has worked in my garden. I have over 50 roses and my best performer is by far Belinda's Dream (you probably have it by now, if not, get it!). Always in bloom all year round, doesn't mind heat/humidity or rain has perfectly formed blooms AND its fragrant. It has it all! One of my other good performers so far have been some Ausitns. My BEST bloomer is Huntington rose, but it does get black spot a bit. I don't spray her so i just prune her a bit after every other flush and she keeps bouncing back. Queen of Sweden has been excellent. Not as big a bloomer as Huntington but NO black spot at all. She does grow TALL though (huntington grows WIDE), So Far she has stayed very narrow and tall. Jubilee celebration has done well but she is too new to tell if she'll get through the rainy season without too much BS. Wollerton Old Hall, great fragrance great BS resistance but bloom color is not my cup of tea (kind of a tan/beige). Alnwick rose has done well too as well as Abraham Darby (tried and true). All my Austins are in planters though, none in the ground. As for HT roses my best performers have been Mr. Lincoln, Olympiad (very good), Gold Medal (also very good), Queen Elizabeth (kind of gangly but blooms alot), iceberg and brilliant pink iceberg are great but grow wide, not tall (they stay short though). Pretty much all my HT get some black spot in the rainy season but i just trim them come fall and they do well all the way until the following May. If you are looking for a more bushy rose try the new KORDES varieties. I have had ABSOLUTELY no black spot on Lion's Fairy Tale and Mandarin Ice, and I hear all the Fairy Tales are just as good as lions. I'm getting a few more this year from that series. OH also don't forget BUCKS roses. Superb! I have Polonaise and Golden Princess and both are great with BS (very very little) but by far the best one has been Quietness! She has NO BS and beautiful fragrant blooms. Very Fragrant! Some roses to stay away from would be Oklahoma, Double delight (every one raves about her but she's a BS magnet in my garden) Angle Face (same). Cherish (love her blooms but same BS issues). I grow most of my roses in planters so you may need to see if you can find any of these on Fortuniana RS. I highly recommend the Kordes ones though, they have really thrived own root with NO disease they stand out like champs. They almost don't even look like rose bushes they are so leafy. Duchess du Brabant has been another good one. She does get a little BS but she seems to shake it off quickly. I just also got Rosette DeLizzy and clotilde soupert but they are still babies so too soon to tell. Good luck and let me know what does well in your garden!...See MoreDisease Resistance vs Fragrance
Comments (14)Some of my HTs that are lovely, very fragrant, and bs resistant: Valencia, Oklahoma, Berolina, Memoire (Ice Cream), Elle, Peter Mayle. I should add, that "bs resistance" does not mean BS free--especially when applied to hybrid teas. However, for hybrid teas, the above ones are fragrant and fairly good on bs resistance. For fragrant and bs resistant shrubs, there are Austin's Lady of Shalott, Munstead Wood, Pretty Jessica, and some people think Jubilee Celebration is although I have some problems with bs on mine (not a disease-magnet, however). A number of Austin's more recent roses are also fragrant and good on bs resistance. Others: Well Being (modern shrub); older roses: Souvenir de la Malmaison and its almost identical twin Mystic Beauty. Some claim the hybrid perpetual Mrs. John Laing is both very fragrant and bs resistant, but mine has some (but not a lot) of bs problems. Several of my hybrid musks are fragrant and reasonably bs resistant. There are also some roses with only moderate fragrance and good bs resistance--ought to do in a pinch. : ) Hope that helps. Kate...See MorePartial Shade Disease Resistant Compact Climbing Rose for Containers
Comments (5)I personally have no experience yet, but people on this forum have suggested using large containers. Also not sure where you are, but both very hot temperatures and cold temperatures could be an issue for container plants as the roots are more exposed. I am planning to start this year as I am running out of space in my yard. Having killed roses in planters previously, I plan to provide some sort of drip irrigation when I am away, and possibly move the containers in summer to protect them from our brutal sun. lets see how that goes. Eventually I would like to find a happy place where they get enough sun but not bake. Winter is not much of a concern here, although a couple of my austins did not come back up after the 2017 winter. not sure if it was the cold, or the combination of cold +wet. My jasmines also died back and just now recovering....See MoreR pnwz8a
5 years ago
rosecanadian
5 years agorosesnfriends
5 years agoKristine LeGault 8a pnw
5 years ago
jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
5 years ago
Karen R. (9B SF Bay Area)
5 years agoP TW
5 years ago
strawchicago z5
last yearlast modified: last yearBelow light pink Savannah is NOT compact in my zone 5a, but disease resistant, it gets taller than 5 feet tall in late summer. Very thorny Princess Ann (darker pink below) is also disease resistant but throws octopus canes at 4 feet tall.
Disease resistant with canes over 2 feet: Perfume Breeze (irregular shooting canes). Ardoise de Lyon, Cornelia, Evelyn (octopus cane but more upright),Below Poseidon (very compact and 100% healthy bush), pic. taken when it was 2nd-year own-root, now it's bigger 3' x 3' as 8th-year-own-root:
Below are compact OWN-ROOT roses which stay under 2' x 2' with ZERO OCTOPUS CANES, plus healthy in my dense & heavy alkaline clay at pH near 8 (high in dolomitic rocks):Below 11th-year-own-root W.S. 2000 stays small at 1.5' x 1.5"
Below 2nd-year own-root Well-being is compact at 2' x 2', but it's prone to blackspots unless the top soil is mixed with dolomitic lime (garden lime with 10% magnesium):
Munstead Wood is 8th-year own-root, and it stays small 2' x 2', never see blackspots on it:
Own-root Marie Pavie is a round & compact bush at 2' x 2' at below edge of the pic. Upper white is Mary Magdalene is always small at 2' x 2' as 12th-year-own-root. Marie Pavie is prone to blackspots, but I never see diseases on Mary.
Own-root 12th-year Pat Austin is also small & compact, very healthy in alkaline clay:
Below Christopher Marlowe is also compact & small and very healthy as 12th-year-own-root:
The Dark Lady is also compact as 8th-year own root, prone to blackspots since it blooms so much that potassium is depleted.
Moonlight Romantica is compact at 2' x 1.5' as 2nd-year own-root, super-healthy:
Twilight Zone is always compact & constant blooming in 4 hrs. of morning sun, it's an 8th-year own-root, glossy leaves are healthy:
7th-year-own-root Prairie Harvest is compact at 2' x 2' and constant blooming in partial shade, very vigorous & disease-resistant:
Below Orchid Romance is 7th-year own-root, compact at 2' x 1'. Super healthy with glossy foliage, but it's a water-hog that needs tons of rain to bloom:
Aloha as 4th-year own-root is also healthy in rock-hard clay, it's compact at 2' x 1' in my rock-hard clay. It does better in high heat & full-sun since blooms tend to ball in partial shade (less than 4 hrs. of sun):
Below 4th-year-own root Mirandy is 10 times healthier than compact Rouge Royal, and the scent is twice better than Rouge Royal. Mirandy is the same size as Rouge Royal as own-roots in my zone 5a, but Firefighter (less disease resistance) is 3 times taller than Mirandy:
Mirandy's bloom has better scent and color than rouge Royal. That's the only rose that I regret killing due to my daughter's request that its nasty thorns might poke her.
Meg-zone8aOR
last yearrosecanadian
last yearstrawchicago z5
last yearlast modified: last yearCarol: the scent of my 8th-year own-root Dark Lady is old rose, and is strongest on the bush, and not in the vase. It doesn't throw octopus canes like L.D. Braithwaite, Wenlock. I sniffed it at Chicago Botanical Garden 8 years ago before I bought it. Did your L.D. Braithwaite throw octopus canes when you grew it? Thanks for any info.
Other compact and fragrant roses:
Below Strike it Rich, very thorny & drought-tolerant, it's a 7th-year-own-root:
Below Rouge Royal (left) is very compact & fragrant as own-root, same with Baronne de Rothchild (right of below pic). Both are 1' x 1' in my zone 5a, even as 4th-year own-root:
Augusta Luis is very compact & delicious scent as own-root, pic. taken 2 months after purchase as band-size from LongAgoRoses. It's healthy if enough potassium and calcium for its many firm petals. It needs fast drainage for heavy rain climate:
Diane Brakefield
last yearAugusta Luise is a very vigorous rose and not compact in my garden.She does have a nice growth habit and grows dense canes. Tamora, however, remains compact for me even after 16 years in my garden. Tamora has a nice scent and blooms constantly even in our 100F summers. Augusta is a near constant bloomer, too. Diane
Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
last yearrosecanadian
last yearlast modified: last yearDiane Brakefield
last yearstrawchicago z5
last yearlast modified: last yearDiane: A friend in southern CA got her Nicole Carole Miller from Regan Nursery (grafted-on-Dr.Huey), and it blooms well in her alkaline clay (only 12" of annual rain).
Carol: I could not smell anything from Tamora at nearby rose park, but their other Austins like Eglantyne and Jude the Obscure are amazing in scents. Their Tamora was faded & less petals than my Evelyn.
WARNING ABOUT TAMORA: Not best for rainy climate if grafted-on-Dr.Huey.
While I was at nearby alkaline clay rose park early spring, I saw lots of gypsum (17% to 21% sulfur) scattered on the ground, with the result of Tamora being burnt out. The sulfur also induced RRD (rose rosette disease) on their Pink Traviata, but they removed that RRD one on my 2nd visit to the park.
Here's a picture of Tamora being burnt out and shrank with gypsum plus tons of acidic rain. When there's too much calcium, it suppresses nitrogen, thus less leaves. Note the black spot leaves from too much rain and too much acidic sulfur on top:
Below is Rose Park's Tamora before they burnt it with gypsum (21% sulfur) on top. Blooms were faded in full sun and not much scent.
Diane Brakefield
last yearrosecanadian
last yearlast modified: last yearstrawchicago z5
last yearrosecanadian
last yearlast modified: last yearstrawchicago z5
last yearlast modified: last yearPotassium sulfate (sulfate of potash) needs acidic rain water to dissolve. Potassium helps to prevent mildew.
Firefighter broke down in mildew when I mixed rock-dust (mostly calcium which shoots up the pH to very alkaline). I had to replace the soil with neutral pH potting soil.
1st-year own-root Firefighter is 100% healthy with glossy leaves when I used acidic rain water plus 2 TBS alfalfa meal and 1/2 TBS sulfate of potash per gallon of water.
Note the THICK canes of gallon-size Firefighter in below pic, that's from sulfate of potash. Potassium thickens cane. Also the glossy foliage from sulfate of potash, which can't be dissolved unless the pH is slightly acidic. Pic. was taken 6/11/22 in a narrow 7-gallon pot. Now 8/17/22 Firefighter is over 3 feet tall with 10+ buds, after transferred to a 12-gallon air-pot.
Diane Brakefield
last year
Latest Tamora pics. She's been blooming all summer long right through the 100F+ tamps. A tough rose for sure. Diane
rosecanadian
last yearstrawchicago z5
last yearlast modified: last yearCarol: The 1st link is what I use, it was cheaper for $20 per 10 lb. if bought in winter or end of summer (off-season).
The 2nd link with pinkish powder for hydroponics use, that's more expensive since it has more acidic sulfur added for faster dissolve in alkaline tap-water
I use acidic rainwater to dissolve powdered sulfate of potash (from your 1st link), but 1/4 of that remains NOT dissolved, so I always mix 1 TBS of acidic alfalfa meal per gallon of water, along with 1/2 TBS. of sulfate of potash.
The bacteria from fermenting organic matter (alfalfa meal) helps to dissolve fertilizer into usable form that roots can use. The key is TINY AMOUNT of alfalfa meal to break down TINY AMOUNT of fertilizer in a solution.
I burnt roses when I put a wad of acidic alfalfa meal right smack on the crown. I also killed Felicia (band-size) when I put sulfate of potash directly on that tiny rose.
Sulfate of potash is VERY HIGH in potassium at NPK 0-0-50, best as very diluted and used every other day.
There's University of Kentucky with marigolds that showed fertilizing with alfalfa meal on top resulted in pale leaves (too acidic). In contrast, fertilizing with DILUTED SOLUBLE fertilizer NPK 10-10-10 three times a week resulted in the best growth.
Last year I tested SOLUBLE fertilizer Schultz for tomato NPK 17-18-28 with salty potassium chloride for my roses, plus Osmocote PLUS, plus chicken manure for 20+ roses in pots: roses blackspot during late fall (too much phosphorus suppress potassium which is necessary for health). Some roses remained stingy despite being doused with high phosphorus & high potassium, thanks to nitrogen over 10.
This confirms what a Michigan State University horticultural professor said: It's the absence of nitrogen fertilizer that induces blooming, rather than the addition of phosphorus.
This year I go 100% ORGANIC: I tested mixing gypsum into potting soil months in advance. Then I fertilize with 1 TBS alfalfa meal plus 1/2 TBS of sulfate of potash per gallon of water (every other day), plus using garden soil in my air-pots for trace elements, and the health is much better. I still get 10+ blooms on Firefighter as 1st-year own-root without using Osmocote PLUS.
NO BURNT leaves from the salt in chicken manure or from the salt of chemical fertilizer like the previous year. Leaves are glossy & healthy with sulfate of potash and alfalfa meal in a very diluted solution every other day.
Tututara Zone 7
last yearlast modified: last yearrosecanadian
last yearLiz PNW 8b
last yearrosecanadian
last yearLiz PNW 8b
last yearrosecanadian
last yearstrawchicago z5
last yearlast modified: last yearrosecanadian Thank you for your excellent observation. Rose tissue analysis done by U of CA at Davis showed 2.5 to 3 part nitrogen, 2 part potassium, 1 part calcium, 1/10 phosphorus and 1/10 magnesium.
Each year I grow 20+ OWN-ROOT roses in pots before transferring into my rock-hard & high magnesium clay. Clothilde Soupert balled badly in a 7-gallon air-pot, there's NOT enough calcium for its zillion petals. I transferred it into my clay (made fluffy ahead with tons of gypsum OR pelletized lime plus decomposed organic matter), and NO MORE BALLING !!
I grow OWN-ROOT Firefighter 4 times since 2012 with different methods of fertilizing. The first time in 2012 was a success with frequent toppings of horse manure (rich in calcium & potassium), and the 1st bloom was 5 inch. across, see below. That Firefighter gave 40+ blooms as 1st-year own-root:
My 2nd Firefighter back in 2015 was only 1 foot tall & gave 3 blooms max, fertilized with MG-soluble for roses, NOT enough calcium for form its canes & blooms.My 3rd Firefighter in 2019 was a wimp at less than 6 inch. tall, and gave only 2 blooms. I burnt it with wads of high phosphorus chicken manure, plus too much high phosphorus cow manure in the planting hole. I violated the principle of 3 part nitrogen & 2 part potassium & 1 part calcium and 1/10 phosphorus.
My 4th Firefighter I learned my lesson and put 8 cups of pelletized lime in 12-gallon pot WAY AHEAD of time, and let rain-water dilute the calcium throughout the soil. I fertilize with alfalfa tea for nitrogen and sulfate of potash. Zero balling despite tons of rain plus using rain water only from my 7 rain-barrels. It gives 20+ blooms so far as gallon-size own-root received from Roses Unlimited this May 2022. Pic. taken this August, it's over 3 feet tall but slender and doesn't occupy much room.
strawchicago z5
last yearlast modified: last yearAgree on Bolero as compact & healthy & constant blooming. Never see blackspots on it since 2012 when I bought it as own root from Roses Unlimited. Worth buying it again since it doesn't live long in my zone 5a winter. Leaves are always glossy & healthy:
strawchicago z5
last yearlast modified: last yearAnnie L. McDowell, bred by Roseseek (Kim Rupert) is very compact at 1' x 1' in my zone 5a. Plus it's thornless. One cluster can perfume the entire room with its amazing lilac and musk scent. Never see blackspots on it. I grew it back in 2012, it died after a few years in my zone 5a. So I bought it again, and it survived 3 winters OUTSIDE in my zone 5a (-20 F below zero):
Below shows the compact & healthy bush of Annie L. McDowell in early summer:
Below is Annie in 3rd flush. It blooms better in a pot than in the ground, so this summer I transferred it from my clay to a pot, and I will keep it in a pot forever to be safe from rabbits:
rosecanadian
last year
Patty W. zone 5a Illinois