Even if a turf lawn is small, it can add a great deal of beauty as a setting for other plantings. Keeping it "relatively" small can make it do-able. Confining it to a central location in the back yard is where it might give the most bang for the buck... being the "white space" for the plantings closer to the perimeter. (I can't speak to what greyhounds might do to it since I have no experience with them. Do they like to tear directly across open space, or use the perimeter like an oval track? The latter could be to your advantage insofar as turf goes.) An oval shape seems like it would fit the back yard nicely and if it was a pronounced, distinct, perfect shape, it could add a feeling of strength and organization to the overall design of the yard. Since the back lot line has low trees already, beefing them up with Palo Verde or Mesquite, so as not to see buildings beyond, seems like a good goal. I agree that neighbors could not expect that you wouldn't plant trees or that you would assume responsibility for their view. (When was the last time you thought about asking anyone to alter a tree on their private property to suit your needs? Where your trees cross the property line into neighboring yards, it's the case that they own the crossing portion and can do with it as they please. It might sound like be a harsh legal reality, but plantings at yard perimeters that provide some privacy or shade USUALLY work to the advantage of both parties. Usually it's not much of a problem.) Combining some views-below-canopies with privacy, where needed, seems like it would be easily workable. Along the cul-de-sac area, you might consider breaking up the run of wall with small groupings of small tree-form shrubs with open space between the groupings. Where I live, freestanding walls and fences are frequently treated by placing a lower hedge to run alongside them. To my thinking this is a complete waste of material and effort. It does nothing to interrupt the boredom of the wall length. Just like how periodic columns add interest to a plain brick wall, periodic plantings that exceed the height of the wall add visual interest. Large flowering shrubs make good small trees for this purpose. Grouped tightly in 3s, they also add depth to the planting. As pointed out, the TYPE of thorns that plants have make much difference. I would not think thorns on TREES would make much difference (in general) to people or pets as the thorns could easily be placed overhead and out of reach. Plants without thorns can be placed at lower levels. And in some cases with certain plants, thorns that are highly visible and obvious may be acceptable. The patio area is somewhat like a stage positioned to play to a 180* view. Of course, the actual viewing occurs in the opposite direction of what it would in a theater. Here, the audience sits on the stage and views the "theater seating" area, which is the back yard. After you determine the actual square footage of additional patio needed, you might consider making its distant edge to be arranged in a semi-circular, octagonal or similar, bay-window-ish shape so as to "play" to the rest of the back yard. It would need to fit with lawn shape. Setting small groups of trees to both sides (not between "stage" and "seating") could provide shade and maintain an unobstructed view to the lawn and remainder of back yard. Trees selected for what their canopy could become (as it relates to patio and house) would be important. The discussion of wall heights surrounding the back yard can be confusing. As you refine your ideas you might submit a revised plan for the wall that only indicates what portion of the wall is ABOVE your back yard grade... as that's what really matters from back yard viewpoint. Also, for discussion purposes, I suggest that it would be easier (especially since your house is set at a diagonal to cardinal directions) to refer to right/left/fore and aft--as one would view the yard from standing at the street facing the house--as opposed to NE/SW/SE/NW, as those require one to memorize the directions or to go back and look at a previous drawing. Right, left, fore and aft is easier.

Welcome to the Carolinas! I'm a native of the area and can honestly say you are going to love gardening here!! I'm constantly amazed at how well plants do that all of the things I read say will die off during the winter. For instance, my herb gardens never see the die off that I expect. I've planted many impatiens that come back year after year. It's a wonderful place for people who love to garden. A recommendation for a store to visit: Try Kings Nursery just outside of Charlotte in Stallings NC. They have one of the best selections I've seen in the area. They carry unusual houseplants too if you are building that collection back up. Start to look for nice selections of plants in March, most places have decent shipments start then. By April, the gardening season is in full swing. The clay can be a challenge. I'm in Indian Trail for the next couple of weeks, I have a new house under construction in Kershaw SC. Here I have yellow "Bull Tallow" clay and it is almost impossible to work with. The first year in this house, I pulled out the tiller and spent a small fortune on dirt, but no luck. This past year I gave in and did all container gardening and had great results. The new house has sandy loam, and I'm much looking forward to that. I'm going just far enough south to get a sandy consistancy to the soil. And I'm really excited to have a "blank canvas" to work with. Good luck and happy planting!!

Indeed, it was a very nice afternoon at Glaciers End! We visited this place at the right moment because of the nice weather and taking pics, about 2 weeks later it was only white we would see because of the snow and ice chrystals...(see link) Dave, thanks for having us at your beautiful gardens! Some comments to the pics: Dave mentioned that he will cut off one leader of the Abies procera 'Rat Tail' in Spring. 'Rat Tail' is often seen as only 'Rat' but it's clear that this cultivar is named after it's tail and not the animal itself... Calocedrus decurrens 'Maupin Glow' When we were at Jason Hupp's nursery he told us that this one was found in Maupin which is a small town which is also in the Oregon State. Picea mariana 'Blue Teardrop' This one was found by Bob Fincham as a faster growing mutation on a Picea mariana 'Nana'. Somethimes you see it also under the wrong spellend cultivar names 'Blue Tierdrop' and 'Blue Tear Drop'... Picea abies 'Gold Dust' This is a big specimen indeed, but we saw a much bigger one which was at least 4 times as big at Don Howse from Porterhowse Nursery. 'Gold Dust' was found 30 years ago between understock seedlings by Talon Buchholz and I guess that Don's specimen was one of the first propagations... Chamaecyparis lawsoniana 'Drath Hexe'. This cultivar was found as a witches' broom on a 'Drath'. All nurseries are selling those as cultivars of Chamaecyparis obtusa but it was me who discovered that those are cultivars of Chamaecyparis lawsoniana because of the cones that the 'Drath' will produce. 'Drath Hexe' was found by in 1990 my German friend Guenter Eschrich. @ Sam, pizza, girls and conifers is the most ideal situation you can wish for. All this with a couple of beers and you feel like you're in heaven :0) @ Josh, unfortunately our photo camaras were left in the car but I bet Dave will go back there and will make a nice pic of her. He's a regular customer of that bar (I guess I know why now) and the only thing he has to tell her is that this pic will make her famous all around the (conifer) world. Well Dave, jump in your car and accomplish this mission so everybody here will know what I'm talking about :0) Here is a link that might be useful: bad weather for taking pics...

Will, I was extra careful with my walking trough this garden, I didn't harm non of his plants. There was only one lady we would like to see that day, Will's girl friend but unfortunately she didn't show up. Mybe she red the day 1 journal and she didn't like me to make her famous in the conifer world ;0) Indeed, the white needled Picea abies is 'Elegantissima'. Dave, I can't remember the amound of tequilas we had but we decided to continue share our information about conifers with eachother. Somebody has to do this when the older generation isn't around no more... Mike, thanks for showing us your beautiful garden pictures. All colours together will make it look like a living painting! Garen59, do you've Dutch blood in you? Garen is Dutch for tread... For sure we are not Conifer Gods, but we felt like we were in heaven :0) Nate, the Picea shirasawae 'Mt. Yatugatake' is a special and very rare conifer indeed. Till now it's the only cultivar I know of this species. Some background info of the one's at the pictures: Abies procera 'Danish Column': Found by Jason Hupp from seed he bought from Danmark. This cultivar was first named as 'Hupp's Fastigiate' but in that time it wasn't availlable on the market yet. Picea shirasawae 'Mt. Yatugatake' The species Picea shirasawae is native in Japan and was first named as Picea bicolor var. shirasawae. Picea pungens 'Victor' Found by Jerry Morris as a flat growing specimen which arose as a seedling. He also named a Picea pungens 'Victor II' but this one is found as a witches' broom. Picea abies 'Catharine's Golden Heart' This is one of Bob Fincham's seedling selctions which arose as a cross between Picea abies 'Gold Drift' and Picea abies 'Acrocona'. Bob sold this one to Will including the rights to gave it a cultivar name. Will named it 'Catharine's Golden Heart' after his mother. This conifer does have a shape which is in between it's parents, also it produces cones at an early age. Will, thanks you for having us at your beautiful gardens and we hope that you'll continue your great topics at this forum!