There is really no fundamental difference in strength between framed and framless cabinets. Poorly-built frameless cabinets will be less sturdy than well-built face-framed cabinets, and well-built frameless cabinets will be more sturdy than poorly built face-framed cabinets. Regarding your statement: I see that the small frame in the kitchen reduces very slightly the useable space in terms of installing drawers or pullout shelves, but it's not a significant difference. Some GW poster put together a comparison between frameless and face-framed and the differrence is alot more than than you would think at first. (Anyone got the link ?) For illustration purposes they compared a 12" wide base cabinet in the two styles, and assumed 3/4" thick box construction, 1/2" thick drawer boxes, 1/2" wide side mounted slides, and 2 inch face frames. With frameless the drawers ended up with an usable internel width of 12 - 2 x (3/4 + 1/2 + 1/2) = 8 1/2" vs for face-framed the drawers ended up with an usable internel width of 12 - 2 x (2 + 1/2 + 1/2) = 6" So if you want the full-overlay look, my opinion is you should go with frameless cabinets. Also regarding your daughter slamming the doors, I have seen posts about something called "blumotion for doors" which attach to the hinges (which I believe must be blum brand) which eases the door closed.

First sorry so long: Finally I found a post during a search on Google! Thank you Gooster for sharing both style cabinets depending on how wide the door is. Right now I have stiles in the middle of my partial overlay cabinet doors (4 cabinets) and I dislike them. One of the designers (who used my measurements and cannot give me an exact price yet) managed to design my kitchen with more cabinets that are less wide to have no stile in the middle of the doors and only have the cabinet above the sink with the stile which adds to the cost (gave me a ballpark cost as he needs his own measurements and then I realized he had one too many cabinets below and I told him that I must have given him a wrong measurement so I measured again using my new tape measurement. He has not gotten back to me and he is about 1 hour from me so he wants me to visit and figure out everything at his store and be sure before he comes by to do his measurements that possibly could change everything. His sales tax is half due to his location but then again I have to get my own installer and the stress that comes along with that. The other cabinet designer came to my home to get accurate measurements and bought sample doors on both visits so far. This visit he brought me three whites in sample doors to compare in the lighting in my kitchen. He designed my kitchen with the larger 39" wide cabinets that I have now with the stiles in-between the doors and I told him I liked his design a lot but I did not like the stiles. I did like no blind cabinets and the fact that I would have mostly all drawers and one of the two corner Super Susan's is a half Super Susan to have a pan cabinet which I like. He also added a cabinet over the sink (with glass doors that look nice but I may remove the glass to keep the cost down and I do not have anything to show off right now) that is also wide with a stile. He said that Shiloh's inset cabinets wider than 36" have a stile but recently they will let you pay more per cabinet to remove it but the cabinet will not be stable. Why does it cost more to remove a stile? Maybe it cost more because then the butt doors will be wider? Should I do more cabinets to add a few more to the cost, leave the stiles as I like the look of inset or remove the stile and take a chance of less sturdy cabinets and pay a little more for the butt doors on the wider cabinets? Why do other brands like Honey Brook Custom Cabinets, Inc. allow no stile in the middle of the doors as long as the cabinet is less than 42" and they say the cabinet is still sturdy? Of course there was a higher price difference between the cabinets but I have not had a chance to go back to the store to get an exact price. The other store was trying to push me towards the full overlay Hanssem Cabinets and telling me the custom cabinets in inset was $8,000 more. But now that he sees I have no interest in the Hanssem cabinets, he said he can keep the costs beaded down and for me to come back to the store to look at the inset cabinets on display that are painted BM Cloud White which I liked the color of and the look of. I need to keep my costs down as I am redoing all the floors downstairs, adding recessed lights in my large home office, fixing the mess the other contractor did to my ceiling when he installed recessed lights at the end of 2011, most likely having to remove the popcorn in the ceiling due to the mess and holes the installer left, installing tile floors, replacing my cracked vinyl windows with warm windows and doors that will be costly and of course there is the new counters, hardware, under cabinet lighting possibility and installation costs. I then have to replace the 22 year old carpet upstairs with new flooring and replace those windows also next year. I need to replace three toilets... I can go on and on and I just got a new water heater that was a lot. Would the door be unstable if I remove the stile? Should I make more doors. I prefer so far the designer that came to my house to measure and then came back yesterday with an installer to give me an accurate price. The other designer does not want to bother until I finalize a plan at his place with my measurements and not his and I would have to find my own installer. This is why I was going to switch to full overlay due to not wanting stiles between my doors but I love the look of inset cabinets. I can keep costs down by taking the glass out of the cabinet over the sink which I think I may do. I am still waiting for the install price. The designer selling the Shiloh Cabinets that was at my home yesterday has a corner cabinet with no Super Susan in it or Lazy Susan but that is fine with me as I will need a ladder either way and want to see everything and keep my costs down but at least I would have a full Super Susan and a half Super Susan. I have two Lazy Susan's in my kitchen right now. I was sure I was going to go with Polar white but the soft white looked nice in my kitchen (and looked nice with my floor tiles I already bought that are 17.5" X 17.5" rectified) as I plan to go with LED lights in 3,000K temperature and 1,150 lumens made by TCP, The installer would like his electrician to install LED that are retrofit and include the ring but I like the temperature of the bulb I found as I find 2,700K temperature makes everything more yellow than I like and anything more white that 3,000K is too stark.

jill Congratulations on building a new home. We have custom mahogany inset cabs from a cabinetmaker in Maine. 5 yrs and going strong. No problems at all. As with any wood product there are inherent concerns over time. My experience tells me that it depends on the species of wood, quality of finish, quality of construction, install and how well the area for install was prepared. I have seen many new construction where the fast growth hardwoods used effect many finishes over time. Crown moldings that shrink, even sub flooring & framing can suffer from the same. Most woods used today don't have the same quality as older woods that were slow grown and allowed more drying time than what is marketed today. Good luck

Alice -- I have actually been keeping a spreadsheet of cabinet manufacturers who make inset cabs I can find in my region because we are doing an addition pretty much like yours. The KCMA site is somewhat helpful in identifying cabinet makers who do inset and learning how they are distributed. See link below. Play around with the regions, though, because the search engine is a little hinky. The first thing you should understand if you go with a manufacturer instead of a local woodworker is that they distribute through different channels and this makes a difference in your costs. Omega, for example, is a great line and can be found at both retail kitchen shops and building supply companies. When you buy your cabs through a building supply company, the kind your GC uses to buy lots of things, you may not get much design help but your cabs should cost less. Retail kitchen and bath shops, like the kind some GW KDs like Kompy (a great designer, btw) are at, should offer more design assistance but that will be reflected in the price of the cabs. You may not get the best design possible because KDs in these places usually make their money as a percentage of the cabs you buy, thus they have an incentive to pack your kitchen with lots of cabinets, especially upper/wall cabs. You have a large kitchen and so may not need to maximize storage so much as you want to build a kitchen that fits with your house style. Is the KD you met with on your builder's staff or at a local retailer he recommended? You will pay more for countertops if you use the retail shop, too. GCs often like retail shops because it takes a lot of the detail burden off them and kitchens and baths are tricky. If the KD is his employee, you should get design help there but do your own research on cabs and countertops if it matters to you. Our construction manager and his designer will never spend the kind of time I am putting into our project to get the details and pricing I want. A local woodworker would usually buy boxes and even doors from one of several major manufacturers of cabinet parts but should be able to build your cabinet frames on site, giving you a more authentic look. Not all local woodworkers like to do inset, however, because it is harder to do. Painting your cabs on site and with a brush not a sprayer will also contribute to the authentic look, although most manufacturers and many local woodworkers hate the idea because they worry the customer will complain later about the durability of the finish. You will be able to touch up spots easily if you paint on site and with a brush, however. Here is a link that might be useful: KCMA site