Sus905, With Joe's antecedents appearing to be as they are, and it's probably been a few years since his birth, I think his pedigree is "mutt". Gina in FL, I am sorry if you feel personally offended by my viewpoints. I grew up on a farm where in the early years we had no pressure water system, which meant of course, no flush toilet. After we got pressured water there was no hot water heater - we had a wood/coal-fired range that had a tank on the back where we heated water for bathing, washing, etc. Later we moved to the prairies where we had no electricity and collected (scarce) water from the roof for washing and had to bring water from elsewhere for drinking, cooking, etc. for a couple of years till Dad bought his own farm, by which time I was away to University. I spent several years helping a few of hundreds of thousands of refugees get their lives back in some semblance or order after the terrible Korean War. Even ordinary citizens there, apart from refugees, had to save for years to afford a bicycle. Millions have been uprooted from familiar surroundings, made homeless, etc. since that time. No home, almost no food, no education available for their kids (and they couldn't afford to pay the fees, anyway) and no medical services available. In earlier years we felt that those wide oceans insulated us from those serious problems in the world. Not any more. We can ignore those issues if we please - but they will not go away. They'll just get worse. And - believe me - they will impact us. Increasingly so. I prefer to deal with them now, at a time and place of my choosing. And encourage others to do so, as well. Or - my grandkids will have to deal with them later. Quite possibly not at a time and place of their choosing. We can tell others not to stand up in their canoe, or they may tip it over and drown. This world is one small, fragile canoe. We occupy it with them. If we screw up much more than we have already - we may destroy ourselves. Some of the other species inhabiting the earth might say that would be a good thing - that man has destroyed a great deal of this precious world, and the only way that they can survive is ... ... if mankind departs. If I saw that your house was on fire, came to your front door and suggested that we have a game of bridge ... ... how much respect would you have for me, when you learned the truth? When I leave this world, in a few years (or maybe tomorrow?) and arrive at the Great Gate ... ... I think that my Heavenly Parent will have some things to say to me about my heedless greed that I will not want to hear. After all, S/He loves the faceless millions in other parts of the world as much as S/He loves me. As I said above - I am sorry if you feel personally offended by my expression of my understnding of the realities that we face in this old world. Good wishes to you and yours, (still) joyful guy

About today's uptick in the markets: it's too soon to tell if the wide fluctuations we've been having are coming to an end. There may be some more big jolts to the markets: hedge funds collapsing when they have to sell good stocks at a loss to pay for redemptions; credit default swaps ("toxic" holdings); GM bankruptcy; continuing downslide in real estate values; prolonged unemployment of up to 8%; loss of consumer confidence. There is therefore every reason to believe that this recession will not be similar to recent ones, but will be longer and deeper. That said, the markets will begin a sustained climb when they "anticipate" a recovery within a few months or a year. I do not think we are there yet. But I'm sitting on a pile of cash because I sold half of our stocks about 4 months ago, and I'm gradually putting money back in stocks, a little bit every 3 months or so.

The guys running the investment advisory that I referred to last March, as having super growth rates over a numbr of years but less well in recent years, with a 15% loss in '07 ... ... had a really bad year in '08 - down 36 or 38%!! Check their system principles and results at "www.contratheheard.com". But a lot of the rest of us had some rather heavy losses, as well. Although the markets look pretty bad now, I think that this may be a good time to start buying some stocks. And I want well-researched ones ... so I'm subscribing to their advisory service ... I don't think that they've lost their touch! It seems to me that they're on sale now ... and doesn't 40% off sound like a good sale price? Of course ... they may go down more, so be on "fire sale" later ... so I'm not too enthused about committing too much at present ... ... but it isn't much fun to arrive at the station to see the back of the train moving down the track/plane climbing into the sky. So, after a few months, buy some more ... and a few months later, buy some more. They've been telling us for years not to try to time the market! Invest more or less equal dollar amounts on a regular basis, over a substantial period when the market is down. But only money that you can leave alone for a good five years. If it stays down longer than you'd expected ... you have that many more dollars at work when they do not only start, which they usually do several times, then drop again ... to grow again on a sustained basis. By the way - during the investment phase, you want to invest equal number of dollar amounts on a regular basis. But when you enter the withdrawal phase, it seems to me best to develop a good nest egg of guaranteed-dollar investments, then withdraw equal number of units of investment on a similar periodic basis. That way, you aren't forced to sell an unusually large number of stocks in order to achieve the dollar amount that you need to cover your rather immediate needs. I feel that I can safely avoid the need for that substantial cushion on hand to cover immediate needs during a prolonged downturn without being forced to cash out an unusually large number of stock/equity-based mutual funds in order to cover immediate needs, for I regularly live on less that my monthly pension income. Going in - invest equal numbers of dollars on a regular basis. Going out - cash in an equal number of shares on a regular basis and, since the number of dollars per cash-out will vary, have some cushion on hand to offset the low current income. Learning how money works (and the tax implications of various strategies) ... an interesting hobby ... that pays well!! "pays" and "well" - a couple of "four-letter" words with which I can enjoy being associated! But life is much more than money - I enjoy being associated with a number of other situations in life, as well. ole joyful

OK, hopefully we've put to bed the "don't hire an architect, designers are just as good and cheaper" mentality. Now we can get to the subject of economies and cost savings. Every time one of these threads appears (which is often), the poster asks about savings--but it's almost always addressed to the issue of fixtures, finishes and equipment. Where can I buy the cheapest: countertop, range, flooring, "scratch and dent" stuff...Consumers miss the point (or perhaps they simply don't know or recognize) that the truly expensive stuff lies elsewhere. What one may save on fixtures, finishes and equipment is peanuts compared to the cost of the rest of the custom home design and construction! For example, the type and configuration of the land and how the design of the house accommodates the land, and its characteristics, is the very first place to start looking and analyzing for economies and savings. There are sites easy to develop and build on, and there are site which are just the opposite. The second place to look is at the design concept and how the design can be developed into a final design which addresses the site, the needs and wants of the owner and the budget, while still making good, appealing and envigorating architecture. For example, a simple, well-organized house is always less expensive than a rambling, undisciplined and inexperienced design. Where are the major costs in any custom home: site development and improvements, foundation, exterior building shell, structural elements, and the building systems: HVAC, electrical/signal, plumbing service and waste. All the stuff that HGTV never, ever films or has their stars discuss. What do they discuss? Building custom tables for the dining space and putting lots of pots and pillows everywhere. The design concept and the developed design and construction documents are where all of these things are explored and resolved. This is one of many reasons why experienced architects offer much more professional service than designers who sit at a CAD keyboard. The third place to look for savings is the extent and quality of the design and construction documents--the drawings, specifications and bid documents. Skimp on these to save a few bucks, and in many--most--cases the consumer will wind up paying much, much more through misused and inappropriate allowances; through construction oopsies (a technical architectural term) where the builder or his subs use their own ideas and experience to fill in blanks in the drawings; and on and on. And then there's the situation where skimpy documents leave the consumer to spend many, many hours trying to make decisions about stuff which is necessary by not specified--door and drawer pulls, paint and stain colors, yada, yada. When it comes to design and construction documents and services, you get what you pay for. There is thread after thread on this forum of consumers with bidding and construction woes; consumers venting about all of the decisions and selections needed once construction starts. So...the point here is to shop for saving on flooring all you want. But if you really want to economize, pay attention to the truly expensive stuff, and the professionals who can best guide your through these sorts of decisions. Good luck on your project! :-)