Funny stories about different transactions. Bill_h, I'm glad to read that in the Motor City, it's somewhat of a free-for-all. It just seems appropriate, being the home of the U.S. auto industry. One thing that can work well for selling a car -- if you're replacing it with a new or used car from a dealer -- is what dealers around here call a "courtesy trade." You and the buyer of your car agree on a price as usual, then you and your buyer go together to the dealer where you're buying your new car. The dealer shows your old car on the sales documents as a trade, with the value being the price the buyer is going to pay for it. This saves you on sales tax in many states. The buyer then purchases the car from the dealer for that price. I know of many dealers who will do this for free, as a service to the person buying the car from them. A few charge the buyer a standard "paperwork" fee. They're willing to do it even though they make no money on the sale of the trade because it can help you buy the new car, since the buyer is presumably giving you more for it than the dealer would have.

I will say that in the "which is better, Honda or Toyota" question, they are both pretty much equivalent. I have a 2001 Honda Accord with 105k miles on it that was NOT maintained by my husband (when he was the one primarily driving the car). I made sure that the major services were done every 15k miles but he never did intermediate oil changes. Even being abused such as it was, I STILL get 30mpg highway and even though I do have to throw a quart of oil in between oil changes and have never had a non-wear related problem with it. Ever. I would guess that if it were property maintained I would not even have to throw in the oil every 1500 miles. Toyotas are similar and honestly I would be extremely comfortable recommending either one to anyone. The whole discussion reminds me a little bit of those bumper stickers I'd used to see along the lines of "I'd rather push a chevy than drive a ford" etc. I know people have extreme brand loyalty sometimes but they are both very very very good and reliable cars (I would also add nissan and mazda to the list btw, they might be a tiny bit less reliable over a large sample set than honda and toyota but they are still very very reliable cars). I have also heard that Hyundai of the last few years is what Honda was when it first came out... extremely reliable and extremely economical with a lot of bang for the buck. Honda is still extremely reliable but you will pay for it (both new and in higher retained resale value, same with Toyota). All that said, my BIL is in the used car business and has lots of friends in the new car business too. I will probably never drive a new car again because of it - he just has access to too many resources and no matter what kind of a deal I have been able to track down for new, he has always been able to blow it away with used. But even without someone like him as a resource, he does have a few "tricks" that have yielded very good results. He does buy most of his cars privately and through auction but there are times when he will go to a dealer to purchase a car also... usually when he is trying to track something specific down for a family member. Here are the things I have picked up over the years. 1) get the carfax report. Make sure the car has clear title and few owners (1-2 depending on age of the car.. if a car has changed hands many times it is usually an indication of annoying problems). Many carfax reports will list the dates of services performed if they were performed at the dealer... although I have seen many that don't show anything about service either. If it's not reported it doesn't mean it wasn't done but if it IS reported, it's great for peace of mind. It will also list any open recall items and remaining manufacturer warranty. He doesn't buy anything without checking the carfax. The other thing it will tell you is the date of all of the title transfers, including the transfer to the dealer - so you can see how long the dealer has had it. If it's over 90 days chances are good they will be willing to deal... they don't like holding cars much longer and will likely be putting it in the auction soon to get rid of it, where they will have to pay to insert it and will probably not get all that much over trade in value... why not save them the hassle by buying it (then they will at least be able to get doc fees off of you too)? If a car has been sitting at the dealer for a while you can really go for the jugular in dealing price and maybe get it for $500-1000 over dealer trade in values. 2) Don't go to a toyota dealer if you want a used toyota. You will pay the highest prices there and really they will be trying to convince you to just buy new anyway. I've been looking to replace my accord, maybe with a subaru and you would not believe the crappy junk they had there at ridiculous prices and for everything i looked at he just kept telling me how much better a deal the new cars would be (although agreed that things are weird because of the japan situation, they can't get subarus either). The BEST place to buy a used car, especially in the "average person price range" is, believe it or not, at a luxury car dealer. People trade in their newish mid priced cars (hondas, toyotas, hyundais etc) all the time for upper end cars when basically they realize that their car that was reviewed as being the poor man's bmw is still a poor substitution for an actual luxury car. Luxury car dealers take them in as trades to make the sale obviously, but they are not really in the business of selling used hondas and toyotas... it seems to be easier to get a deal there because they just want to get rid of the things. Even better if they are holding the car upward of 90 days. The other nice thing about buying from dealers like that is that their detail shop does not discriminate based on the type of car... if you want a used car that has been put as close back to new condition as possible, the luxury car dealers are the place to go. We bought a 2008 hyundai santa fe from an import dealer (they deal in bms, mercedes, aston martin, rolls royce etc) and the thing was immaculate (both mechanically and cosmetically) and because they had been holding it for 90 days we got it for pretty much $500 over what they paid for it (including the mechanical work they did like new brake rotors and tires etc). Now my BIL bargains like no one's business but I would think that if you say "i see on the car fax that you have had this car for a while, what's the best you can do on it?" that you will find them ready to deal. 3) Don't forget the "hidden costs" of buying a used car... like the replacement of wear items (like tires, you can easily spend $1k on new tires) or major services that may be soon required. It will be less expensive to buy a car at say 105k miles that has had the timing belt and water pump changed (for cars that require that) than a car with 95k miles that will require it very very soon. That only really applies for older used cars and I think the OP is talking newer cars but I figured I'd throw that in for completeness. Anyway, good luck! I am looking to trade up my accord a little bit too (tired of driving manual, tired of burning oil) so I'm back on the hunt myself (and want to pay cash as well).

@saltidawg: "Like Best Buy taken over by amazon.com?" Yeah, neigher Sears or Best Buy has anything left to sell. Last year we were looking for a small freezer. Decided to try Sears, hadn't been there in years. First thing we noticed was there wasn't any other customers in the store. Found a freezer, asked the salesman what the warranty was on the compressor. It was one year. Any reputable company knows that the compressor is the key component and if it fails - well you have a boat anchor - cause they are not worth fixing. An additional 3 year warranty was $100 - the freakin' freezer was only $175!!. Went to Cosco - paid $150 for a 7 cu/ft - with a 5 year warranty. Best Buy: I refuse to patronize stores that inspect your purchase when you leave the store.

1929 Model A Ford, 4 dr with window shade, roll-up, style curtains on rear side windows. Color black - was there any other color? 1949 Plymouth, 6cy, 2dr, 3-sp manaul, column shifter, Blue, the last of the fast back designs. (Horrible rear visibility) 1954 Dodge, 4dr, w/ Red Ram V-8, 3-sp stick. This one was not a large displacement engine, rated only at 140 hp, but was the smoothest running engine that I have ever owned. Color: White top over Blue bottom. 1960 Plymouth Valiant, slant six, 100 hp, automatic, 4 dr, blue. Low torque engine - couldn't get out of the way of itself. Good fuel mileage. No power steering - didn't need it - very good handling. The next year, a longer stroke engine was offered with much more torque. This one was very driveable and became the engine of choice. 1964 Dodge Dart, 273 cid V8, 4 dr, automatic, white w/red interior. This one was a good compromise between, power and fuel economy and room. I wish that I had another similar car today. This one was well liked. The engine was a thin wall cast version of the 318, but with a smaller bore. The bore centers were the same as the 318, thus it was manufactured on the same engine line as the 318. Many engine parts were interchangeable with the 318. 1969 Dodge Coronet, 4 dr, 318 cid V8, blue Just an ordinary sedan to hold my growing family. EPA fix-ups began to appear and degraded performance a bit without any fuel mileage increase - lower compression and a low ratio rear end ( 2.71 to 1) Though I put 115,000 miles on it before moving on. 1974 Dodge Sedan, 400 cid V-8. EPA had struck this engine hard. It was based on the admired 383 V8, an engine upgrade option for station wagons and police cars. To meet EPA requirements, Chrysler lowered the compression ratio and installed a very mild cam. The resulting power was so embarrasing that chrysler bumped the displacement up to 400 cu in to gain back a bit of performance. (An earlier 383 in good tune would run cicles around it.) 1974 Oldsmobile Cutlass, 4 dr, V8. Bought used for a 2nd car and commuter. Had to put in a valve job after 1 yr ownership. As it neared the end of its life, sold it to a junk yard. I didn't want to see this on the road again as it had become dangerous. The body metal holding the rear body mounts had corroded away. The best part of this car: The radio. 1975 Buick Apollo, 270 cid V-8 (Oldsmoblie engine), 4 dr, Yellow. The smallest V8 made by GM. Not a good car. Was purchased as 2nd car for a winter-beater and comuter. Let my kids learn to drive with this one - they were not going to win any stop light drags with it. In fact, they were lucky go to get across a big intersection before the light changed to red. I bought this car during a period of runaway inflation. It was 3 yrs old and loosing value at a lesser rate than my hard earned cash in the savings account. That became part of my rationale for picking it up for a 2nd car. 1976 Buick Estate Wagon, 4 dr, 455 cid V8, Clam shell rear gate and window; 19 ft long! This one was the family land barge and vacation machine. The family had now grown to 5 and this station wagon held us all in comfort on long trips. This was the first year that GM put catalytic converter on all of the Buick line. (GM had put catalytic converters on a few select models the year before as a field trial.) With the converter, Buick put in a better cam and iginition advance curve and got better power plus 2 more miles per gallon. I garaged this one every winter taking it off the streets just before road salting began and it stayed off until next spring after a rain had washed away the salt. I kept this one 13 yrs and it was in very good condition the day I traded it in. It was showing signs of a catalytic converter plugging up, otherwise, the engine was in fine shape. 1980 Chevrolet Citation, V6, 4dr + hatch back, green, my first front wheel driver. A fair car. Had a very good useable interior layout and driver visibility - wished there was a car with those features today. Had too much braking on rear wheels compared to the front - gave the car a tendency to swap ends while braking on slippery surfaces. Over- sped the engine one time when the tranny failed to catch 2nd gear on a downshift - it went all the way to 1st gear at 45 mph. Loosened a rod bearing. GM got the steering geometry right on this one - no torque steer. The Chrysler K-car was plagued with torque ateer. 1983 Chevrolet Citation, V8, 4dr, white Engine was de-tuned a bit, but otherwise the same as the 1980. 1981 Pontiac Phoenix (twin of the Citation), 4 cy "Iron Duke", 4 dr., Brown. A dog. Served as a commuter. When climbibng a grade, engine vibration could be strongly felt in the steering wheel - each firing of the cyliners were perceptable. No. 2 son, a new driver, burned the engine up while driving home from a days outing with the guys. He had not been watching the oil level - it ran out. 1989 Dodge Dynasty, 4 dr, V6, Light blue 1st yr for Chrysler's new computer controlled transmission. It had issues - shifting algorithm should have been revised. It was programmed to give good results on the EPA fuel mileage test, but otherwise, was bad for commuting traffic. Car was too softly spring - people riding in back tended to get car sick. 1992 Dodge Dynasty, V6, 4dr, White. A much better car. Better handling. Held front alignment very well. Shifting algorithn improved, but still had glitches. I put 90,000 miles on it and sold it (cheaply) to my daughter. She moved out of state and later sold the car to her friend. By then, the rocker panels were holed out. I saw the car two years ago and it was still running with upwards of 140,000 miles on it. 1992 Jeep Cherokee, inline 4.0 L 6CY, 4dr, with part and full time 4-wheel drive, Red. Really liked this one. Gas mileage wasn't great, but it took us all over the lower 48 states and into places where an ordunary car could not go. We photograhed many interesting scenics using this vehicle. This one was my prime winter time driver - great in snow - can't beat it. 1998 Dodge Stratus, 4 cy, dual overhead cams, 4 dr, red. An OK car - not great, but OK. Its gets very good gas mileage on trips and that is what I bought it for. Runs great. I beem garaging this one very winter and there are no rust spots. 1998 Jeep Cherokee, in-line 6 cy, 4 dr, again with part and full time 4 wheel drive, Deep Amethyst Purple (appears black under many lighting conditions). Replaces the red Jeep which was getting body rust, but ran well - had 190,000 miles on it.