Rebecca,

Have you tried William Baffin? I grew it years ago, not long after it was put into commerce. It was winter hardier than it need to be.

How it grew, like it grew as if it was on steroids! I actually had to remove it because it got too large for the space I thought was big enough for it. The spring flush was magnificently beautiful....no fragrance to speak of, but bright, bold intense pink blooms in abundance. The repeat was not so much, but it really did not get mature enough to repeat decently, before as an immature bush I had to remove it, as stated above.

Moses

Moses, I tried Billy Boy Baffin the son of Godzilla that eats the WORLD!!!! I had two of them. Thorny monsters that took over an arbor and ate it completely. It took days of cutting off roots bigger than fruit trees and years of cutting out roots that were left behind until I got rid of them. Never again!! I’ll take John Davis without any thorns except little ones on the leaves. Billy never repeated. So far, John Davis repeated even in his first year. I also got 2 J P Connell and put one in an obelisk. Thornless, pale yellow and 5’ tall. What’s not to like. :) I have suddenly gotten to be a fan of hardy roses.

Rebecca

Rebecca,

I now have an eyewitness, you, that in zone 4 "Baby Billy Baffin," is the undisputed champion of climbers, but for a number of wrong reasons.

I'm waiting for a rose breeder to come out with a "Child of William Baffin Rose," with all of dad's negative traits bred out.

Moses

Ooooooh, I like that one!!! I’ll buy it! :)

Rebecca

Hi Moses, even here in the Sunny South where we don't have extended frozen spells, I've seen that blackened cane death occur in spring. Many of my young chinas and noisettes appeared to have weathered that first polar vortex several years ago relatively unscathed. Then, the blackening canes started in spring and progressed until the whole plants were goners. Same thing most springs with a lot of my HTs and floris. I haven't lost a modern to it, but have to do multiple "re-prunes" throughout spring for newly blackened tips. I'm not sure if that dreaded, creeping, black cane is canker or winter damage, though.

I absolutely agree - the progressive cane loss throughout the early growing season is the reason we're never entirely done with pruning. I do a lot of "repruning" as Pat describes, and sometimes there's not an external sign of the winter damage (or canker or whatever) that means this cane is marked for death. I just know when I see canes dying to prune it off pronto before it spreads.

I will sometimes make notes of such roses that "pretend to survive the winter" in that they have apparently green cane that then dies with no further growth to be seen again. I've always figured that the cane has some stored energy that feeds a little leaf growth in spring but the rose can't sustain that growth beyond the initial boost, either because it's not making more canes or because there really isn't substantial root survival over the winter. Sometimes this can be an indication that this rose might be hardy with additional protection, as opposed to a rose that never leafs out or shows any sign of growth whatsoever in spring. I expect that sometimes it's just an indication that the rose cane is too damaged to survive, like when you can see tip growth temporarily but all the cane further to the base of that growth is black and won't support life.

Just one of those things that happens in cold zone rose growing. We keep watching our roses as they grow and have the pruners handy to cut out failing growth. This is another of many reasons why few of our HTs and floris ever need to have the oldest canes pruned out in the spring, if we never have old canes for the most part.

Cynthia

Is there a control center, a brain, in a rose? In its crown? In its roots? Is it possible the theoretical rose's control center tells (communicates), selected canes that are green, a directive like this:

"You must be completely sacrificed for my well being. I am the bush. I must survive. My survival depends on your expendability. Yes, you are green now and appear healthy, but you are not well. You have severe freeze damaged, dead celled sections that I, the bush, cannot expend precious energy in an attempt to repair. A repair that is not possible to make in the first place. I know this, you do not, being just a cane.

Upcoming warm weather will encourage bacterial and fungal growth in those dead cell pockets. You will surely succumb as the bacteria and fungi invade live, adjacent cells. Energy expended to fight a loosing battle is pointless. It is better to terminate you now, so that I can survive.

Your demise will not be painful. Day by day you will become progressively dead until I stop the further spread of disease just a short distance above my crown. Here I have placed warrior cells who will halt any further disease spread. They will perform their task valiantly because they have sufficient energy to do so. They are super energized, since they have not expended all their energy trying to restore the damaged cells higher up upon you.

Shortly after your death, my human benefactor will detach you. You will have been dead a while already. I will make every effort to replace you, so that in a sense, you will live on. Thank you for your service."

Moses

Good question. Apical meristem comes to mind, but that's all I remember - from another era. Surely there's more known now (and then, too).

Where's Henry?

We don’t have any progressive disease here, nor canker, no crown gall, nor any other diseases except a little mildew on suseptible roses. (Hopefully, I got rid of the midge last year that I imported with a rose.) It’s either looks alive, and then oops, it’s really not alive. Or it’s dead right out of the chute. I am going to have to learn how to prune my new Canadian roses that have surviving canes. (THANK YOU, CANADA!!!!)

Rebecca