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danogg

need help with plant selection

Dana
6 years ago
Just finished building our new home and now we need ideas for landscaping. Thinking of 2 large gardens...one is on the west side with full sun exposure and other garden is in front of house on east side. Have lots of hostas we salvaged from our cottage before demo but need ideas on how to fill up these large spaces. My husband is on the pics just to indicate the size of the space. We live along the north shore of Lake Erie in Ontario. Thanks for your help :)

Comments (20)

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    6 years ago

    If you just want plant selection you would be better served if you go to the perennials forum and the shrubs forum and ask there.

    If you want help with design of the garden areas around the house, we need photos that show the whole yard and house and how the garden areas relate to the house and each other. Or at the very least a plot plan that marks the spots where you are considering gardens as well as any existing plants such as trees that will effect the gardens. Right now I can't figure out how your photos relate to each other and the house. Are these on either side of the main door? Where is the street from here and are you interested in "curb appeal" or views from inside the house or . . . . ? The second one looks like it will have a good amount of shade once the trees leaf out - is that the one on the south side? Do you actually know it will have sun based on prior experience or is it likely to have at least part shade from the building or trees?

    TIA for any further info.

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  • Dana
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    Thanks for the advice. I will take better pics this weekend
  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    6 years ago

    Blue atlas cedar will most likely suffer periodic dieback, even close to the lake. I grew up gardening on the south shore of Lake Erie.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    6 years ago

    And keep in mind that for every plant suggested here, there are probably a half dozen (or more) other plants that will present a similar feature or can be substituted and still provide a similar effect.

    So once you have determined the specific design feature each plant or plant grouping is intended to contribute - feature or focal point, mass/shape/form, balance/scale, repetition and/or color or texture - you have a lot of plants to choose from to achieve that contribution.

    That's why plant selection is only a very tertiary part of landscape design....there's a whole bunch of steps you need to take first before you get to that point :-) Plant selection is just the icing on the landscape design 'cake'!!

    Dana thanked gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
  • PRO
    Dig Doug's Designs
    6 years ago

    I bow to your specific knowledge of the northern lakeshore NHBabs.

  • l pinkmountain
    6 years ago

    Plants for the landscape usually perform certain functions related to the desires to the home owner. Those could include making the house look pretty to passers by, protecting from climate (hot, wet, windy, etc.) providing nice views, being easy care, enhancing the aesthetics of the home. Could also include some wider interests such as being kid or dog friendly, attracting birds and butterflies, being drought resistant, providing cut flowers for the home, etc., etc. etc. It helps to have some general idea of your interests and also a larger view of your home since most folks usually just want something nice looking and low maintenance. Around Erie, you definitely don't want stuff right up against the house holding in moisture so whatever you plant, be sure to keep it well away from the house and allow it room to grow into the space.

  • Dana
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    Thanks for all the feedback. Looking for something low maintenance...I will take better pics this weekend. Here is a pic of the front of our house ...we are not right on the lake so front faces the street. The front garden would go on the left side of the entrance which is south and east exposure. There is a big tree in the front yard which provides shade as well. In the back of the house I am looking to plant just along the back wall which receives direct afternoon sun as it faces west with no shade.
  • l pinkmountain
    6 years ago

    You have a gorgeous home! Almost can't go wrong. For low maintenance, I suggest something low growing with attractive foliage in the front for a bit of color or contrast from the plain grass lawn. Some of the low growing junipers or cypresses come to mind. Dwarf mugo pine is also often used. I am a huge fan of the low growing spirea, like "Magic carpet" and "Goldmound," There are also the suggestions Doug gave you. I'm not a fan of most weeping plants and I'm not sure how big weigela ultimately gets, so if you plant those they may take more maintenance to look pretty than you're into. Or not, you may find you enjoy a bit of gardening! Another small "foundation" plant I had good luck with was Ms. Kim lilac. I suppose some day it might get too big but it can be pruned like weigela and doesn't grow as fast in my experience. Another good ubiquitous foundation shrub around the upper midwest is DWARF fothergilla (not the full size) and clethra. Also knock out roses. I just planted some dwarf aronia this year but don't have much experience with it.

  • Dana
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    Thanks for all the input. I have a lot of plants and shrubs to research now.
  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Here is my suggestion for a way to arrange this bed. (Can't see other areas from proper perspective.) The greens are shrubs (which line up with windows) and groundcover. The more colorful things are perennials and next to step, annuals. You would pick plants that fit the spaces when they're mature, and that grow in your area.

    Sorry, I had to brick over your husband. He was in the way.

  • l pinkmountain
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I wouldn't necessarily spend a lot of time researching plants. Not that you can't do that, but instead, spend your time researching ideas for the "look" you want. Ways to do that are googling "foundation plantings" for online ideas, searching Houzz, taking photos of examples you like from walks around your neighborhood, going to the library an perusing landscaping books (ones that emphasize common home ideas) and also magazines. Or keep it simple and just use the few mock ups that have been posted here. Then take those ideas with you to a reputable and large nursery and they should be able to recommend some plants to you. Read the labels. The plants might be some of the examples we gave here, but they may have others too. Make sure to know the mature size of the plant and space them accordingly. Your landscape might look sparse to begin with, but it will soon fill in. I was thinking of you yesterday while in the grocery store checkout line. There was a whole special issue gardening magazine devoted to foundation planting! Perhaps you can find something like that!

    Edited to add that the reason I am not a fan of weeping plants is the weeping forms are usually due to some type of genetic abnormality in the plant, and to ensure the health of the plant the weeping top is grafted onto a more hardy rootstock. There can be zero problems with a plant such as that and it can grow into a gorgeous specimen. OR, it can be sickly, weak and die, or sometimes just up and die for no apparent reason. Then you will see the hardy rootstock plant resprout. So that's my issue with weeping plants, they are a little fussier than some others, and a lot depends on the skill of the grafter. But not impossible, many are gorgeous. Just know what you are getting into. I have seen folks buy weeping plants and then try to prune them into a non-weeping form . . .

  • Dana
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    Thanks again to all of you for taking the time to make suggestions. Love some of the ideas you have. When we demo’d our cottage last summer I salvaged a lot of our hostas and grasses. Would like to incorporate them into our new gardens along with some more colourful plants and perhaps a few small shrubs. Just waiting for spring to start to see what plants I have to work with.
  • PRO
    Phoenix Home Services
    6 years ago

    LandscapeOntario helps identify native species that will do well on their home turf!

    Colorful native plants like red osier dogwood or winterberry could brighten up the yard :D

    https://landscapeontario.com/landscaping-with-native-plants

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    6 years ago


    Nice house! I wouldn't want to hide architectural details, so in general I would do much of the planting as low masses. If you use ground covers, shrubs, and mulch to fill in until the groundcovers spread, with some tough low care perennials you should be able to keep it attractive and low maintenance.


    To the right of your front steps along the porch, I would use your hostas in a bed that comes out as far as the base of the front steps. If you have some other plants that are shade-loving and can provide either evergreen or contrasting foliage interest, such as ferns, Heuchera/coral bells, Tiarella/foamy bells, Polygonatum/Solomon's seal, etc. those would be a nice additions. To tie the left front corner bed in, use some hostas there also, and if there is a plant that you use in the large corner bed that would work on the right side of the steps, that would make it all look part of a whole interrupted by the steps rather than separate beds.


    Looking at your second posted photo of the front of the house, I would plant something on a diagonal a few feet out from the corner where your husband is standing that is about his height. It could be a vine on a trellis or a medium tall, bushy shrub. That will help distract from or hide both the downspout and the HVAC unit form the street. I would also plant a couple of shrubs that are just taller than the HVAC unit but won't get closer than a couple of feet from it to hide it from other angles. The rest of the bed I would keep under 3'-4' maximum to show off the house.


    You want some evergreens in the front bed for winter interest. Even if the ground is snow-covered for much of the winter, there are often times in spring and fall where the ground is bare of snow or just has a bit, and having something attractive there will be nice. It looks like there is fair amount of shade, so you might consider some of the smaller mountain laurels/Kalmia latifolia if your soil is suitable (acid and reasonably well-drained.) Other options would include low growing conifers such as others have suggested, but I would plan to make choices that only reach 2'-3' perhaps with some judicious pruning. Microbiota decussata AKA Siberian cypress or Russian arborvitae is one of the few conifers that will grow in a good amount of shade and it stays low, so this might be a good choice here. You could also choose something like one of the really small red-twigged dogwoods such as Cornus sericea 'Kelseyi' which has nice fall color in addition to the bright winter twigs that would look stunning against the masonry. One of my favorite evergreen flowering ground covers is Veronica 'Georgia Blue' which blooms in spring and has tidy green foliage all summer. With cold weather, the foliage takes on mahogany tones, but it returns to green when temperatures warm again. It will grow around the feet of other plants but isn't thuggish, and I have it growing happily in beds that range from full sun to full shade.

    I like the look of Yardvaark's sketch for your back bed. Notice how the plant on the end extends past the end of the building, and I would plan on having the bed over-reach the end of the building by a bit. You could plant something taller off the corner like I suggested for the front, but it's fine with something lower here as well. If you look at this bed in the winter (for instance if you will use your porch 3 seasons) use at least some evergreens, but otherwise it won't matter much.


    Some other plants I've not already mentioned to check out because they are easy to grow, look nice most if not all of the year, and have a long blooming period include:

    - Hydrangea paniculata which likes at least a half day sun and has cultivars that range from around 3' like 'Bobo' to way larger than you want. Look at a medium sized one like 'Little Quickfire' or 'Little Lime' to distract from the HVAC unit if there is enough sun there. Bobo and LQF will start blooming around early July and continue until frost, starting white and turning shades of pink. LL will start about 3 weeks later and continue for the rest of the season, lime to white to very pale pink.

    - Rhododendron 'Checkmate' has stayed within 3' in my garden for over 10 years. Blooms well with little sun and has mahogany winter foliage. Needs acid soil.

    - Helenium/Helen's flower 'Mardi Gras'. Bright red and gold mix that blooms from July-September for me and stays a bit less than 2'.

    - Fothergilla 'Mount Airy' as mentioned above has early spring flowers and gorgeous fall color, especially if it gets some sun, but isn't super attractive in summer, just a green blob. My solution is to grow a hard prune clematis (cut to two bud pairs per stem after fall freeze) to ramble through it for summer bloom. Look to see what is available in your area or mail order - you want a type 3, not a type 1 or 2 prune since they bloom earlier in the season.

    - For a sunny groundcover, look at Sedum and Telephium (both commonly referred to as sedum). Some are taller or die back like the 'Autumn Joy' that Doug mentioned, but others such as 'Angelina' are shorter and stay evergreen. My 'Angelina' looks great whenever it isn't under snow, but they don't do well in much shade.

    - Daffodils, planted behind hostas or other perennials. Daffodils provide spring color, and if planted behind perennials, the emerging perennial foliage covers up the dying bulb foliage. Once planted, critters don't usually disturb daffodil bulbs since they are poisonous.


    I know you didn't ask about this, but IME in all probability you have soil that needs work before planting. Often top soil gets stripped away or mixed with subsoil during construction, and regardless, foot traffic and machinery will have compacted soil. Gravel or sand may have been used for backfill, and I've even seen contruction sites where the outwash from rinsing the concrete truck or mortar buckets ended up in garden or lawn spaces. You sound really anxious to start planting, but if you take care of the soil first, you will be far more likely to have healthy plants and a low maintenance garden. I suggest that you get a truckload of compost and turn it into the garden spaces, removing any construction debris that you uncover, and then grow a densely planted cover crop such as buckwheat for the season. It will be a mass of bright green, a bit over a foot high. When it flowers, cut it down before it goes to seed and turn it in to add more organic matter and nutrients to the bed. Give it 2 weeks to a month until it starts breaking down and then you can start planting. Late summer into early fall (or even midfall - I have had no issues with planting well into October here) do your planting. Being near the lake, your soil will stay warm quite a while into the fall, but days will be shorter and air temperatures cooling, so the plants will be less stressed than if you plant them in cold spring soil with days that get hot quickly. After planting, lay down a layer of corrugated carboard or several sheets of newspaper and cover with shredded bark mulch. This will prevent all the weed seeds that were turned up during construction and planting from sprouting while the soil settles and your plants fill in. For now, start taking photos of actually how much sun hits these garden spaces. We just passed the spring equinox, so if you take photos from now until June 20, the longest day, you will have a clear idea of how much sun is in each part of each bed throughout the growing season since from June 20 to the fall equinox; the light will be a reverse of the spring photos, though all summer will have leaves on the trees to account for unlike spring. The shade you have will all most likely be fairly bright, from high trees or alongside buildings, not from close overhangs from what I can see. For summer color this year, plant a few large pots of annuals.

  • Dana
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    NHBabs...thanks so much for taking the time to post a lengthy reply! So many ideas to consider now. I think I may take your advise about waiting till fall to plant gardens. I have lots of hostas that are established in the back yard that can likely be split as well as some grasses....just need to wait to see what comes up this spring. I agree that the soil is probably not the greatest right now with all the construction and digging. Have already raked up a lot of debris. We have a whole yard to seed so gardens will likely have to wait a bit anyway. Is fall okay to plant perennials and shrubs then? Here is a pic of my hosta gardens that I have at the back fence. The clematis in the last pic comes back year after year even though it only has one live stem.
  • l pinkmountain
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I prefer fall planting for perennials. In the meantime you can work on the soil, mulch it and then throw a big pot of pretty annuals near the entry door if you feel like it. My neighbors did that, they just have a mulch garden with pots at the front since their soil is so bad there. I highly recommend using cardboard under your mulch. It really keeps the weeds at bay until your plants get established and is easy peasy to dig through to plant. I put in a perennial bed last fall and used cardboard. Here's a photo. The rocks will not stay, they are just marking the spots so I can see what comes up this spring.

  • Dana
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    That is a really good idea... and good use of all the moving boxes we have.
  • Dana
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    Would you plant shrubs in the spring or wait till fall for hose as well?
  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    6 years ago

    I plant probably 90% of both perennials and shrubs in fall. For evergreens, the earlier the better in fall so that they have a good chance to get roots established before cold. Mulch will also help keep soil warm into the fall and help keep soil temperatures more even in the winter, so less likely to create heaves.

    Here we go from snow on the ground to temperatures in the 70's and 80's in less than a month most years, so soils are still quite cold when the air gets warm. In the fall, the air temperatures may be about the same, but days are shorter and getting cooler, but the soil is warm allowing for root growth.

    I think I would leave the tall grasses by the fence when you start moving and dividing. I think they will look better there than having them competing with the architecture, but that just might be a matter of personal taste. It looks like a great collection of Hostas.