Are uncorrected potbound trees always doomed?
lone_elm_z6
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
6 years agolone_elm_z6
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoRelated Discussions
Should I repot my ficus?
Comments (14)Watergal - Well, fertilizer timing can have a profound effect on trees that are in the ground. Also, you've heard the axiom "First year they sleep. Second year they creep. Third year they leap." It could easily go back to part of what is being discussed here too. The newly planted plants had to depend on roots confined to the space of a nursery container initially. Over time, and through an expanded (expanding?) root system, roots gain greater access to the building blocks (nutrients & water) they need to manufacture their food. As this occurs, the branches extend more & they show an increase in the size & number of leaves. I'll suggest that this is likely the natural habit of this tree and you should expect it to continue as long as cultural conditions remain favorable. You can reduce this tendency by timing your fertilizer applications (if you know they are necessary - they're probably not) so that they are applied after the tree goes into its first rest after the spring flush of growth. Leaves will have matured by then, and branch extension will have slowed considerably, so fertilizing with N will have less impact on the tree form or growth habit. The tree will also be changing its focus from tapping its energy reserves to build leaves & branches, to saving some of that energy by forming layers of cells and storing photosyntyhate in the roots and cambial tissues (fattening up for its winter rest). We're a little off subject here, but not too bad. I hope Grice forgives us. ;o) Grice - "o/a" growth = "overall" growth. When I mention it, I'm thinking about the energy the tree is able to produce with what it can extract from the soil (and air). This growth potential is always inhibited by tight roots. You can see evidence of it in any container grown Ficus carica (hardy fig). The leaf bundle scars will be increasingly shorter as the tree becomes more crowded in the container, and when it's repotted, potted-up, or planted out, the distance between scars will dramatically increase. It is not so apparent on tropical or sub-tropical trees, but if I pointed it out to you, you'd see it readily. Al...See MoreFiddle leaf fig training/ pruning
Comments (252)Would someone mind sharing if there is a way to get my flf back to the condition that it was in when I first brought it home? For the most part its been doing well, does not appear to be growing. When reduced to its elemental form, elevating your tree to a higher state of vitality is going to be a function of how good you are at providing cultural conditions in the plant's sweet spot, instead of close to or beyond the limits it's (genetically) programmed to tolerate. So, it can be done fairly easily, but you'll need to make some adjustments if the decline is to be reversed. If a plant is truly not growing, it is not making more energy than it's using, and that's a bad place to be ..... for a plant. When I brought it home in September it was much fuller near the base of each secondary branch. I have a good handle on watering and it is in a well draining mix from a greenhouse. When it was deemed time to water I would do so and then within a day or two it would drop a few leaves. This trend continued until I started adding foliage pro to each watering. I’m really annoyed by that because I was assured that the tree had plenty of fertilizer in the pot, I can even see the little green balls all over in the growing medium. I am thinking that I could have avoided it losing the ~30 leave it lost slowly after each watering before introducing foliage pro, back in December. Since using foliage pro I have had zero leaves drop. Some nutrients, like nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, and magnesium are mobile in the plant. That is to say the plant can "steal" these nutrients from existing foliage and move it to where it's needed to support branch extension and growth of new leaves. Other nutrients, like calcium and several micronutrients are regarded as immobile in tissues and must be in the nutrient stream at all times in order for normal growth to occur. If the FP fertilizer curbed leaf loss, it's a good bet the leaves were being exploited for their nutrients and other bio-compounds prior to being shed. I would like to know the best time and if someone could also give me an idea on where to make the cuts for the hard prune that would be great too. I live in Chicago and all posts I’ve read say that late June would be best for a hard prune. I’m willing to do a hard prune, I’m excited to do it and see the rewards. I just need more information on how to do it properly. Good to see you come pre-armed with some knowledge of how to work with the plant's natural rhythms in order to help the plant recover faster from any extensive work you might do - primarily repotting and hard pruning. I think we're gradually changing minds with regard to the idea that a plant's foliage is sacred and not to be cut off under any circumstances. Growth is often viewed as so special that the plants appearance is sacrificed on its altar. I would do the pruning around Father's Day/ Summer Solstice. As soon as the plant starts to back-bud - you can repot (if it needs it, and it probably does). The pruning will be really easy and possibly done in 2 stages, depending on how close to the trunk the foliage is on each branch. Why not send a set of 4 images of the tree, rotating the tree 90* for each subsequent image in early June. Basically, you'll choose the leader, then prune all second order branches back to 1 or 2 leaves. The leader will be one node higher than the second order branches. A hard pruning represents a setback for the plant because you're removing growth that's been paid for. Living in CHI, you'll want to let your tree grow wild (unpruned or pinched) from Sep 1 to at least Jun 1. Then, pinch religiously from Jun 1 to Sep 1, such that when ANY branch shows a 3rd leaf that's open and moving toward maturity, pinch that branch back to 2 leaves. Soon, you'll be removing branches to let light and air movement into the canopy because it's too full. I have to do that to ALL of my trees older than a couple of years for health and to slow growth. BTW - your tree appears to have a very good basic structure to build on - so, good choice. Al...See MoreTechnical Questions
Comments (9)Damn! I had a long post all prepared and did something stupid (I think) and lost all my work. I did that yesterday on another forum site, too. I HATE it when that happens. Try this site for reliable information about nutritional issues and info. It even has a Mulder's Chart that shows how antagonisms play out, which really shows why fertilizers that don't closely mimic the ratio of nutrients plants actually USE, can get you in trouble in doubletime. Ask any specific questions you can think of. We can probably answer them. Root growth and top growth are closely linked. Root growth always occurs prior to top growth. Chemical messengers keep the plant informed about it's state of vitality, and growth regulators will suppress top growth until there is enough root mass to support it. What is the first thing to emerge from the seed? The root radicle, not the trunk. That plants in very large pots with plenty of room for roots to run won't put on top mass because they put all their energy into growing only roots is a myth. We KNOW that tight roots slows growth more and more as root congestion increases. It doesn't make sense that tight roots and roots with room to run would BOTH suppress growth, does it? Growth and vitality begins to be negatively affected at the point where the root/soil mass can be separated from the pot intact. Once a plant gets to that point, nothing will correct the limitation other than correcting the problem via root pruning. Potting up won't do it, and neither will planting out. Myth - shallow pots stimulate lateral growth while deep pots stimulate ht. No truth there. Whether plants are shrubby or tree-like originates in genetic predisposition and can be controlled to a large degree by selective pruning. There are 2 perspectives when it comes to plants being potbound. From the plant's POV, tight roots are always limiting, so the plant wants more room for roots when they are congested - to relieve the stress. The stress CAN be employed by the grower to make some plants grow in desirable ways. Tight roots have a dwarfing effect (smaller leaves/tighter internodes, and sometimes a few more blooms, but stress is stress. Stress unchecked leads to strain, and strain uncorrected always leads to death of the organism. Not long ago, ONE person glommed onto a negative statement someone made in a blog about Turface. This person is intentionally negative about most things associated with the 5:1:1 mix or the gritty mix, and even regularly sacrifices his credibility on the altar of negativity when it comes to these soils. It's not uncommon to see that happen. Turface, used appropriately, is a superb soil additive/amendment. Asking people who actually USE these soils, and considering them a reliable source is going to serve you much better than believing someone with an axe to grind. Al...See MoreTrees in bad soil - not draining good
Comments (24)ON the drainage again. Two years ago I planted two maple trees for a landscaper I was working with. These were larger trees, I could not pick-up the trees but could drag them. I dug two holes as far down as one can with a sand shovel, including digging down further by digging while on my knees. The holes were about three plus feet wide by the depth of a sand shovels handle. First tree I broke threw the yellow clay to what ever was below as the water drained out of the hole in minutes. The other, with the more expensive and beautiful tree I did not. I told my boss and he said put sand in the bottom of the hole, which was stupid because it was sand bags left over for blocking water from running off I got off of the contractor junk pile and I wanted it for landscaping at home. (beautiful sugar sand). Well as I expected the hole with the more expensive tree did not drain and the tree died. Had he done as I suggested and gotten a power post hole digger on skid steer he could have made a dry well four to five feet deep beyond what I dug out and filled that with sand or gravel or more likely, it would have broken through the clay to the original soil. The first tree lived and did very well. SO? If you plant more trees get smaller hand held post hole diggers with augers apprx. ten to twelve inches wide and dig the holes down as far as you can. Fill the bottom with pea gravel or coarse sand. This will give the water a place to go to. If you still have water problems after this-- punt....See Morebrandon7 TN_zone7
6 years agoEmbothrium
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6 years agolast modified: 6 years agostuartlawrence (7b L.I. NY)
6 years agolone_elm_z6
6 years agoEmbothrium
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agodavidrt28 (zone 7)
6 years agoMike McGarvey
6 years agotreetoronto3
6 years agoEmbothrium
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