They're very different, so I'd say to choose based on what you want. My 'Yolande d'Aragon' has yet to rebloom for me, though I just learned it needs a hard prune after the first flush to do so, and I've never done that. So maybe this year. But if you want something that reblooms more reliably, go with 'Comte de Chambord' (which is really 'Mme Boll', but that's another story).

The other thing is size -- YdA is much larger and more stiffly-upright for me than is CdC. Perhaps this is because I never hard-pruned after bloom, so maybe it can be kept smaller, but I can't imagine CdC would ever get over six feet tall like YdA can.

As far as health, I don't spray, and both will get "damask crud" by July. What I do is strip the icky foliage, give a feeding, and new leaves come in and tend to stay healthy through the rest of the growing season. Both have good vigor, and quickly rebound. If you spray at all, this may not come up for you. I know some people consider a rose "healthy" if it can stay clean with once- or twice-a-month fungicide. I wanted to experiment with lime-sulfur this year, but can't seem to find it available. We'll see what else I try, in my attempts to avoid the heavy-duty stuff.

Oh, and both are very fragrant.

:-)

~Christopher

Thank you for your input Chris! I don’t usually get to enjoy many summer blooms as JBs are so severe here during that time but I would like to enjoy a few fall blooms.

I haven't grown Yd'A. CdC was one of the all time cruddiest roses I've grown. I gave it away after three seasons because I don't spray and it always looked awful here. It was also one of the most fragrant roses I've grown and my hands smelled yummy after deadheading.

Yd'A is gorgeous when I saw it growing in a solid Z5 garden. It looked very healthy no-spray, but this was probably during its first flush in mid-June.

Thank you, Cecily, for being honest about CdC. I have a few roses that get some disease late in the season and I’m not opposed about spraying once or twice before this hits but definitely do not want a disease ridden plant. Thanks for your advice on just removing the diseased leaves, Chris. Vaporvac, I’ve never seen either of these in person but the bloom pics of YdA look fabulous.

Believe me; they are, Dave! After seeing the gorgeous and EXTREMELY fragrant blooms in Peter Schneider's garden, it shot to the top of my "one day" list! : )

Dave, I love both those roses--CDC and YdA--and would make the choice based on size and remontancy. Sometimes YdA seems more fragrant, and sometimes CdC does. Both have exquisite blooms! The growth styles are very different as others have noted. YdA taller, more upright, tends to bloom on ends unless trained on a wall, fence, tuteur, or pegged. CdC is a compact shrub up to about 4'. Both are or have been pretty disease resistant for me (knock wood) in Portland, OR.

Drum roll.... But Konigen von Danemark is disease FREE for me and always has been.

If you want a similar pink OGR that is 100 per cent disease free and was hardy for me in Minneapolis, you might consider Konigen von Danemark. If Damask crud is a problem in your area, KvD is a wonderful, healthy, very fragrant Alba alternative...with just enough Damask genes (?) to provide sumptuous, sugary pink blooms. A no spray rose who is water wise when established in a cool climate. She's one of my longer blooming once-bloomers. I wouldn't be without her.

I've grown KvD as a climber, wall shrub, and free standing shrub. She can be pruned into a very tidy medium large to large shrub. My plant is currently around 5.5 feet and arching. She breaks into bloom all along her outstretched canes as they weave through Botzaris and Basye's Purple. She spreads modestly by stolons. No Charles de Mills by a long shot. You can make more plants as you grow slavishly in love with her! She's an easy keeper. TMI? :-) Carol

Ken - Your CdC is one of the reasons I’ve wanted to grow her. Yours is own root - correct? The bush I was going to order CdC from DA but I would prefer own root. Beautiful pics you shared!

Carol - thank you for your input! Does YdA rebloom for you? KvD has been on my wish list. I didn’t realize her disease resistance was so good. I’ve seen her blooming at the Missouri Botanical Garden once and enjoyed seeing her.

CdC had excellent repeat, stayed compact, taller than wide.

YdA, very tall vertical grower. The fragrance will drive you to your knees, it is pure heaven. However it got terrible Rust here. It dripped orange powder like a Nacho Cheese Dorito.

Haha - that is an awesome description of rust, hoovb! Thankful rust has never been an issue here but every other fungal and rose calamity can be. I think I may just have to try both. The growth of CdC sounds more in line with what I am looking for, although with “generous deadheading” I may be able to keep YdA somewhat in check - maybe?

Ken, you could launch a thousand ships with that photo of CdC!

Dave, it would be best to double check on disease with the Missouri Botanical, but my KvDs have always been clean. With that said, I do highly encourage you to try CdC. If he's good in your area, you won't be disappointed! He's everything Ken's photo boasts, and Ken's photo pretty much says it all minus the delicious fragrance.

One more thought...just in case. If CdC happens to become a diseased struggle, Jacques Cartier is interchangeable. All the same wonderful features, but he seems to resist diseases in some areas of the country where CdC contracts them. I won't get into the JC/Marchesa Bocella debate, but if you decide to try Jacques/MB someday, it's worth asking forum members near your area who are successfully growing Jacques/MB to share the origins of their plants.

I hope CdC or YdA performs well for you! Please DO post photos after you acquire your sumptuous pink OGR, whatever s/he is. I look forward to hearing about and seeing pictures of one of those classic beauties (and one of my favorite OGRs, whichever you choose) in your garden! Carol

Forgot to ask - do CdC and YdA hold up in the heat? The position for either of these would be in full sun. I have grown JC but for the two seasons I did the blooms immediately melted in the heat and so I rarely was able to enjoy them. I didn’t have a place for JC with afternoon shade and so it had to go. Little odd growth habit but those blooms were nice!

Dave, I wish I could answer your exposure question, but the PNW is so much less intense. For what it's worth, I did or do grow CdC, YdA and JC/MB in late morning through afternoon sun. I currently grow JC/MB in morning only sun and he's very happy. I also currently grow something mysterious from Heirloom that looks like a tall, nonremontant JC/MB in afternoon only sun. None have burned, withered or blown their blooms in the west facing beds, but this info is probably only helpful to Pacific Northwesterners in my area. JC/MB will certainly take partial shade during hot, bright summers, so planting him in that location is worth a try if you decide to grow him again. Also, for what it's worth, I haven't read reports of YdA or CdC frying in the sun outside of desert climates and such. I'm guessing they'd fry in Ingrid's climate, and I can't remember Lynn reporting about either of these from her desert garden, but I'm guessing they'd resemble toast in short order. Carol

Yolande holds up well in heat here, Dave. I got good rebloom when I pruned down some after she bloomed.

After Sheila replied, I realized that I had forgotten to mention remontancy. I also coaxed some later blooms from YdA after a post flush pruning. I treat all my remontant Mosses, HPs and Portlands/Damask Perpetuals (including CdC) to regular deadheading and post flush trims. Doing so really helps push new blooms. Carol

Excellent - that’s great to hear, Sheila & Carol!

You'd mentioned hardiness as one of your considerations, and I've never been able to overwinter either of these in my zone 5 garden. It's interesting that vaporvac saw this one in a solid zone 5 garden, since that's the one I've tried at least four times, and the last three were in my most protected parts of my zone 6 pocket. Her feedback is tempting me to try yet again, but I really know in my heart of hearts it won't survive since I don't even get pretending to survive in my yard.

A totally more reliable option for me is Jacques Cartier/MB - tall, hardy and trouble free.

Cynthia

Cynthia, what is your soil like? I think the soil at Peter Schneider's is slightly Sandy as opposed to my heavy clay. In his book he calls it Canfield B so perhaps you can compare yours to that.

That’s too bad that they didn’t survive for you, Cynthia. I am surprised as YdA is rated as zone 4 hardy on some websites. It will be interesting to see what happens here. I did end up purchasing both because I became more convinced, for the most part, I needed to try growing both here. As far as who gets the one spot in the garden - I’m not sure but they both may start out in a pot until they’ve bulked up a bit. I appreciate everyone’s input!

Vaporvac, my soil is loamy clay and pretty good even before amendments. We don't have heavy clay, but we're pretty alkaline. Part of the difference between Ohio and here may be rainfall. We're in the dry central prairies, not as dry as the farther west desert areas of course, but we need to be diligent about making sure roses are well hydrated going into the winter.

Dave you're a zone warmer than I am and not quite as dry, so I think YdA has a good shot with you. I'm surprised by the zone 4 rating too but it definitely hasn't held true for me. Still, there are plenty of roses I'm "supposed" to be able to grow that I can't, and fortunately plenty more that aren't "supposed" to grow for me that do fine. That's part of the fun in this challenge I think.

Cynthia

I am loving the blooms and fragrance of YdA! The long septals are so showy. I moved them from a 1 to 3 gallon pot and will put them in the garden this summer.

CdC has had some disfigured blooms but it appears almost identical in bloom form, fragrance, and growth habit (so far) to Jacque Cartier I received from Heirloom as well. Ken’s picture of CdC is light pink but I had assumed CdC had a darker pink center (similar to its offspring, Gertrude Jekyll). Are there different roses being sold as CdC out there?

Dave, your YdA is lovely! I'm so glad you are enjoying her elegance and delicious fragrance. I am enjoying your photo!

Are you sure your CdC isn't JC? To my eye, your bloom looks identical to JC but not CdC. JC.is a really great rose, too! I also grow it. Carol

Thanks, Carol, that’s what I thought. I have notified Heirloom. They are out of CdC right now but hopefully will have it available later this year. I will enjoy JC in the meantime :)

YdA, JC and CdC! You can't go wrong with that combo. I'm glad you were able to reach Heirloom for a replacement. My CdC came from Heirloom, and it's lovely! I know yours will be, too. Carol