I would be furious too. I hope I would have refused the CT scan, but that would probably depend on how sick I was feeling. I've been over-x-rayed in my lifetime and feel strongly about avoiding radiation if at all possible, but when I took myself to the ER seven years ago (with what turned out to be shingles) I was in so much pain that I gave in when the physician insisted on a CT scan. Of course it showed nothing. These people love their CT scans. And antibiotics.

Also during that shingles episode, with no rash to identify it, a Nurse Practitioner told me the pain was from an infected colon. She wanted to put me in Flagyl, and ordered a CT scan. I refused both, and asked if an MRI would be useful instead because it doesn't use radiation. She said, "MRIs have just as much radiation as CT scans." Oy.

Anglo, that is a nightmare.

I hope you report all of this back to the hospital. I know every time I go to the doctor (which isn't often) I get some survey to fill out. I hope you copy and paste exactly what you posted here in it and send it along!!!

And I hope you're better quickly.

How frustrating! Are you feeling better now?

I don't know if you are hypertensive, but that would have sent my pressure through the roof.

Fingers crossed... had a reasonably good day. Beginning to get back some appetite but am treating my digestive system with kid gloves.

i was told that if I refused the CT scan, Medicare would not have paid for ER visit. I thought we were supposed to try to avoid unnecessary tests. I wasn't taking any chances.

DD does have various POA's and medical directives for me. I'm no martyr - if I was uncomfortable coming home alone, I would not have. I've never had a fall, don't have Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, heart problems, or any of the things typical of many my age. If it weren't for my respiratory problems, I'd be a very healthy 74 year old.

Everyone over 50 ought to read this:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights

ETA Nine years ago I was in the hospital for a week and for part of that time, my roommate was a 60-something woman who had gone to the grocery and forgotten how she had gotten there. They were afraid she'd had a stroke.

Okay, so that's legitimate, but they kept coming into the room while she was deeply asleep, probably sedated, poking her awake and immediately barking questions like, "Who's the president?" God only knows what I might say in answer to any question under those circumstances. They took her away and I have no idea of what became of her.

Keep a copy the medical directives where you can grab them and take them with you if you need to go to the hospital either by yourself or via ambulance. Preferably where a medical crew can find them. Neither time my husband was taken to the hospital via ambulance did the crew take his wallet. Women they will not take purses. I have wondered how they notified family without either of those things if the person was unable to speak. Some areas crews are trained to look at certain places for these instructions. At one time it was either in the freezer or on the front of the refrigerator. Everyone should check their local service.

writersblock I read the same or similar article last year. I did not see mention that an attorney was appointed for the person. Here there is an attorney appointed that is supposed to talk to the person and verify that they were not competent. However on the day I posted above the attorney had been unable to talk to the person because they were undergoing a medical test. Their decision that the person needed to have a guardian appointed was based on reading the medical record. Here the county is appointed guardian and conservator rather than a for profit company. The attorney is supposed to ask if there is any family member that wants to handle the affairs but most families do not want to. The person still looses all rights to make decisions.

I hope you feel better soon. I want to think your experience was an outlier, maybe typical of the institution or an unfortunate draw for the team working with you than of the state of play overall and everywhere. I have a kid who's in the system and his peers that I've met - both in medical school and after as residents - are caring, professional, pretty well balanced in temperament and very smart.

Was this a hospital at a medical school?

No, Elmer, it was not. That one is a Leval One trauma center, and if it's been a bad night for shootings in my town (which it usually is), the wait can be very long. We have 4 major hospitals in the area, 3 of which are downtown (plus one children's hospital). None are doing well financially- constantly being sold, bought by and out of state group, sold again.

Most people in my part of town, go to the new branch ER's of two of these hospitals, but they are way out in the East End, and the downtown ones are far more convenient for me as I live in an older, closer-in suburb. I'm used to going there as 2 of my 3 specialists that I see every 3 months, are at the med school downtown.

I call the two other ER's "White Flight ERs" as that is exactly what they are. The "great unwashed" use the downtown hospital ERs as they are close to the West End, which is very poor and predominantly black (with a few very poor whites thrown in). I have no doubt that the treatment received at both places is equal, but it's a very different population.

Our Med school almost list its accreditation a few years ago - very obsolete labs etc. As one of my doctors said, the university can always afford yet another dean of something or another, but has 60 yr old labs it "can't afford" to replace.

i was told that if I refused the CT scan, Medicare would not have paid for ER visit.

I'm disgusted, but not surprised. We keep reading that CT scans use high levels of radiation and therefore should be avoided except when absolutely necessary, but apparently the insurance companies don't read these warnings. They like the scans because they're cheaper than MRIs. And although we keep reading that Americans take way too many antibiotics--often for viral ailments that antibiotics won't help--so many doctors keep prescribing them with abandon. I suppose this is to cover themselves. ("I did everything possible.") I love my doctor. I hope he never retires.

I hope you're feeling much better now. Level 1 Trauma Centers, unfortunately, are not a good place for caring, compassionate, thoughtful reception. :( I've made the mistake of going to an ER there for a facial dog bite, and ended up waiting more than four hours to be seen/treated.

Oddly, though - once I turned 50, the "standard questions" from any medical professional include:

When was the last time you fell?

I about laughed my head off when my NP asked me that. She said it was protocol for anyone 50+. Maybe just in their office? First time I felt that others saw me as "old." :(

My MD, a gerontologist, asks me once a year about falls. Never, except I tripped on a box on moving day a few years ago. His office procedure is for having a living will/advance directives in his file. This year, he added a DNR, which I signed (the missus declined to sign one when she went in). I guess that is good.

However, he never really exams me. You know, look in the mouth and ears and nose and check reflexes at the knee, etc. He listens to my heart and lungs and that is it. I don't know if I am at 'that age' when some of those things don't matter anymore.

This is scary. I am an impatient person but need to give really serious thought as to how I’m going to temper myself in situations like this. I don’t want the newer generation of caregivers to dismiss me as a crotchety old woman and not provide the care I need. It is our challenge as seniors (or almost seniors) to get thru to staff efficiently and concisely while we’re feeling like cr@p.

imstillchloecat - The questions "when was the last time you fell" made me laugh. I'm 65 and the last time I fell was last November. I was running through the trails as I do, and was jumping down an embankment to get to a lower level and tore a couple of ligaments in my ankle. If I ever get asked that question I would probably hit the roof.

I read this with trepidation....I'm aging...my husbands aging....and this is the healthcare we have to look forward to?! Geeze.......

I hope YOU feel better soon.

Depending on your insurance company/year it is I receive an email listing suggested tests and procedures such as updating shots for each age. Last year I noticed that the last age for any of the suggested things was 75.

Similar to jim above my semiyearly check up is the doctor asking questions of what has happened in the last six months. If I did not need to have my thyroid refilled I would not even go. Last time I did not go to the six month check he stated he would not refill any script in the future. He always asks about falls. Since I garden on a steep roadside slope there have been years that I lied.

Jim's comment about having a DNR was interesting. Although my husband's living will stated on it DNR I had to provide a notarized DNR rather than one that was just witnessed to the nursing home.

Anglophilia, I meant to thank you for posting this. It provides many of us with an opportunity to plan ahead for the possibility of similar treatment. As Bossyvossy noted, how we respond is important.

In my state, healthcare directives/powers of attorney need to be notarized. Notarization is a silly step anyway, it's no more than having a signature witnessed by someone who has verified the signer's identity. A form from a doctor isn't usually valid. Here, they're most typically drawn up and signed at the same time as wills/living trusts and other estate planning documents that get notarized.

For those whose doctors aren't giving you a thorough physical exam, including lab work, you should find another doctor. I go once a year and it takes over an hour.

As stated above, bossyvossy, my experience contradicts any suggestion of there being an uncaring and sloppy "newest generation of caregivers".

I'm reasonably healthy and only have a few minor things I get routine care for but I have to say as my older doctors have retired and I replace them with younger ones, the younger ones have been head and shoulders better than the old ones. Had I known what I was missing, I would have dumped the older ones long ago.

Unfortunately, it is not just the medical industry that treats seniors as though once they reach a certain age, they automatically lose all ability to function rationally or think for themselves!! It is an a very widespread phenomenon and I might even go so far to say that age discrimination is perhaps more prevalent than most other forms of discrimination. I agree it can be a concern in some seniors but by no means all! And what's up with adult children thinking that suddenly they know more/are better able to "manage" their parents' lives than their parents are themselves?? In many cases, they are just as prone to poor decision skills and improper life choices!

I would have to say that all of my peer group (late 60's) and older, including my two older sibs, are active, reasonably healthy, travel, are able to conduct business and manage all their own affairs and deal adequately with current technology. We did NOT lose our brains once we turned 60, lose mobility or otherwise give up all ability to contribute meaningfully to society. Dementia and Alzheimer's are always a concern but by no means a given!! I know several in their 90's that are sharp as a tack!!

fwiw, I have fallen off and on all my life, beginning when I was in grade school. I don't know if I was just clumsy or had a balance/inner ear issue. Regardless, I have fallen less since reaching senior status than I did while quite a bit younger.......maybe because i have learned to just watch my step a bit closer :-)

A friend of mine about my age is both joking and serious when she says Don't fall. I must admit I walk much much slower in the winter than I used to.

Unfortunately, I have had very similar experiences in our hospital. While a lymphoma patient receiving chemotherapy, I ended up having to go to our local ER with a neutropenic fever. Rather than listening to me, I ended up being wheeled all thru the hospital full of contagious god knows what so I could have a CT scan of my "enlarged" liver. Then they proceeded to "diagnose" me with cirrhosis of the liver! I kept explaining that no, I had a enlarged liver due to my lymphoma and that I was there because I had a neutropenic fever. I told them the standard procedure for this was a couple of units of blood and a few days of support while my white blood counts recovered. Eventually they decided they should call my oncologist, who informed them I needed blood and support while my WBC recovered. Imagine!!!

Elmer You are right that most drs are above the horrid situations we fear but the support staff is something totally different. Daytime TV is littered with the medical professional schools that imply 10 months of schooling will enable everybody to properly deal with the elderly and the sick elderly. I’ve had conversations with such support staff that was so nitwitty, it was beyond me how they convinced somebody to hire them. Drs depend on these people for doing some screening so Dr will be working w/as good info as they get from the 10 month ‘medical professionals’. The outcome is rather scary to me

I hope you are feeling better. So very sorry for your horrible ER experience. I would be furious, too. Rest up and recover!

I give this a lot of thought as I remember a pivotal incident w/my grandma. She lived overseas at the time and was coming to visit. I’d heard she was in her 60s. Oh my word, she’s ancient, she must be close to dying! I was taught to be considerate and attentive of my elders so I was looking forward to being as helpful as possible towards this ancient human being during her visit. She wasn’t going to die on my watch! She arrived and as she gets out of the car, I hold her arm to help her out. She brusquely pulls her arm back and tells me she wasn’t decrepit and could get out of car w/o my assistance. I was so confused and intimidated, that it set in stone my dislike of her. I was the kid at the time and had no understanding of her or how people misunderstood her aging needs.

roll the clock decades ahead and (way too late) I understand where she came from. She was totally frustrated by being treated like a crazy old hypochondriac by military medical personnel and my over attentiveness was perceived as more of the same condescending behavior she encountered.

had I been an adult (remember, I was a KID) I would have apologized and thought nothing more about the incident. But I wasn’t. There’s nothing I can do about granny but I’m determined to do whatever it takes so I’m not as misunderstood in my old age as granny was. We are more responsible for successful communication with docs than we think. They know medicine but are not mind-readers. Burden is on us to calmly convince them that we have our sh@t together (if that’s truly the case).

Too bad you hadn't told your Case Assistant (or whatever they call him), Anglophilia ...

... to just give you the clipboard with the questionnaire ...

... and you could fill it out yourself ...

... while sitting on the john.

o j

People should always check their state laws to be sure about whether specific legal documents must be notarized or can be validated just by witnesses.

In CA, per Nolo Press: Sign Your California Advance Directive in Front of Two Witnesses or a Notary Public. After you create your advance directive, you must sign your document and have it either signed by two witnesses or notarized. If you choose to have the document witnessed, neither of your witnesses may be: your health care agent. (emphasis theirs).

Anglo, I'm sure you were very upset at being in pain while being asked such questions! But for people 71+, the proportion of dementia is 13.9% - quite a bit more than one might think (an older study published by the University of Michigan: http://ns.umich.edu/new/releases/6140-one-in-7-americans-over-age-70-has-dementia).

Remember, there are many types of dementia - 50-70 is the rough estimate I came across back when I was doing research on my MIL. Fully one-third to one-half are estimated to be caused by medical conditions that can be corrected if diagnosed.

I can see it both ways after an experience with my grandpa. If course it's frustrating when you're sound of mind and no one will listen to you. But I think there's also a real concern that people may not accurately represent their situation and history, even if they *appear* capable, and so the medical staff must ask routine questions.

In my grandpa's case, he had a strange memory episode. He swore up, down and sideways that he was just fine, that he was in good health, he could have rattled off his health conditions and medications and that he just forgot something. It turns out though that the memory episode was a stroke and we didn't know until his symptoms worsened. A doctor taking his word for it might not have caught it without the proper tests because he was completely lucid and wasn't demonstrating the traditional symptoms.

Also, you can't always judge by age. My grandma is in her 70's as well, and smart as a whip but needs help with her bills, and is considering assisted living, because her memory is fading.

In defense of medical staff, it is very very difficult to go by looks, therefore following a protocol is the safe and sensible thing to do. Some people look and act so together and yet they can disguise serious problems, as Chi alluded.

I encourage you to rent or stream the movie Remember with Christopher Plummer. You will be thinking about aging for days and will look at yourself and your elders with a new set of eyes, I promise you.

It's only going to get worse. The best and brightest are not going into medicine because it has become such a quagmire of governmental mandates, decreased fees for service which are only going to decrease more, and silly protocols. Not to mention the mandated electronic medical record, which is costing billions and is NOT functioning as intended. (Elmer, I'm sure your child is one of the best and brightest, no insult intended) And I've never heard of an ER where nurses wear their own clothing, that is beyond disgusting.

Anglo, I'm glad to hear you are on the mend.

No insult taken at all. Today's young docs want to be docs only and think the oldsters' who grouse about changes (like electronic records or downward pressure on fees) are foolish and curmudgeonly. Docs who have procedure based practices - like surgeons but not only surgeons - are still making lots of money. PCPs wanting to make more money become hospitalists or work in busy Urgent Care centers.

Otherwise, the trend (as you may know sleeper but maybe don't see directly in your small town environment) is toward large "group" practices. Often ones affiliated with or even run by medical schools in the larger urban areas. Regular hours, no need to spend any time on managing a business or employees (which disinterests most of them anyway) and limitless resources. All med school students know which are the specialties are best for lifestyle ("ROAD-E"), which are best for income, and even with that, many choose primary care and know full well what they're getting into. They investigate while doing rotations and externships and most are happy where they wind up.

Anglo, I am so sorry for your bad experience. My DD is a Nurse Practitioner with many years experience in ER trauma, and she even talks about the lack of training with some of the new ones they are hiring. And especially the PA’s! Apparently you can be accepted to PA school with a non-nursing related degree. I don’t quite understand how all that works, but somehow a PA comes out of 2-3 years of training ready to go to work on you.

Blfenton, you made me laugh, although torn ligaments aren’t anything to laugh about. I am turning 70this year, and fell while jogging a few years back myself. Cracked a facial bone and scraped myself up pretty good. Went to the ER because my DD insisted on it (she met us there), and they gave DH some odd looks when we came in. They thought we were a ‘spousal abuse’ case. You should have heard some of the first questions, until DD showed up and set everybody straight.

Unfortunately, the staff at the ER was probably following their procedures with all the questions. It can be helpful for the discharge planner if a problem is uncovered. Sometimes people are more honest with medical personnel than they are with their own families. My husband was in the ER for an injury to his hand and I was with him. They asked him if he was a victim of domestic abuse, with me sitting right there. I don't think they thought that through!

However, not listening to you was a grave error. There is no excuse for that. I have chastised more than one doctor for that very issue and never again darkened their doorways.

Medicare also would have paid for your ER visit without the CT scan. You have the right to refuse any treatment or procedure. Another common threat is "If you leave AMA your insurance will not pay." This is also baloney.

At the least you should complain. What also works wonderfully is a letter to the editor of your local paper.

Get well soon!

Hi Anglophilia-

So sorry you had a negative experience.

In the hospital it is mandatory to assess a mature individual for cognitive function and all patients are assessed for their ability for self-care after discharge. Furthermore, mature individuals with infections, metabolic derangements, etc can have temporarily impaired cognitive function.

It would be negligent not to assess a mature individual for their cognitive function and ability for self care.

Although it is annoying, patience must be displayed by the patient (even if the hospital personnel is a certifiable doofus) because irascibility can be interpreted as "emotional lability" and a sign of declining mental status, mood disorder, etc.

As for the nurse practitioner ordering an unnecessary CT, midlevel practitioners often substitute testing for clinical judgement to compensate for their lack of didactic and clinical training. Unfortunately, in an effort to save money, emergency rooms and clinics all over are staffed by midlevel practitioners. Some of them even call themselves Doctor So-and So, but don't be fooled, check their ID's to see if there is an MD after their name or string of initials. The more initials, the less they know.

Oh, and don't be mollified by a handshake. Don't you know healthcare practitioners touch disgusting things all day long? Fooey!

You could have refused the CT pending a face-to-face discussion with the M.D.

There is no valid reason your insurance would not have paid for an ER visit just because you did not have a CT, a procedure which in this case exposed you to 70 times the radiation of a chest ray* to diagnose a lung condition that you say was not in the the physician's differential diagnosis.

You could have called your insurance company to check this, they always have a 24 hour nurse hotline.

There is a situation in which an insurance company may not pay for a hospital stay. That is when it is not an admission, but an observation. But you were there as an ER visit. If your policy covers ER visits, then the visit is covered, and it doesn't require a CT to be covered, unless the nurse upcoded the visit, that is, coded it as a complex visit, one with multi-system problems of complexity and used the CT to justify it. But even then the CT shouldn't be needed.

A few more things for you to think about.

In the future, of course, I hope you stay in the peak of health and never have to go to the ER.

If you do, however, go to the ER again, first call your private physician, either your internist or your pulmonologist, whichever you choose, ideally the one who is on staff of the hospital to whose ER you are going and tell him your symptoms and why you are going to the ER.

Have that physician call the ER and talk to the physician on call where you are going in, and give them a quickie history on you and tell them you are mens sana and he/she should say whether or not he/she will come in to look in on you, etc.

The ED will take a heck of a lot better care of you that way.

A second thing is, if at all possible, do not go the hospital alone. Bring someone with you, the more intelligent the better. It is very difficult to be your own advocate when you are not feeling well and wearing a flimsy gown that displays your derriere to the world.

A third thing - Perhaps you could ask one of your physicians to write up (on his/her stationery) your current problem list, medications, recent hospitalizations, surgeries, most recent lab tests and you keep that at home (maybe a copy in your glove compartment, and photograph it on your phone, too) and if you need to go to the hospital just take it with you. Of course, your physician should keep it continually updated, but if your physician keeps that part of your medical record, that is just a matter of adding a diagnosis (I hope not!) changing out a lab result, etc. and printing it our and giving it to you.

Good luck and lots of health!

*https://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/pdf/safety-xray.pdf

My doctor give me a printout of current medications, problems discussed and medical issues before I leave the office. Most people would only be able to access the doctors call service unless the doctor had left specific instructions for the contact. Calling the doctor sounds good but waiting several hours for a call back if there was an emergency is not a good idea. I still have employee insurance and in the information it states to call a number that is on the back of the card if there are any questions if something is an emergency. Most of the time you are sent to the ER and because the call was on record they would pay any difference left over from Medicare.

Thanks, loobab! Unfortunately, two of my three specialists are in academic medicine which means it's not just a matter of calling the office and having them call the ER. They only see clinical patients 1/2 day a week.

Next time (hope there won't be one but at my age, realistically there will be), I will go to the med school ER and just hope it wasn't a big shooting night. The main reason I didn't, is that neither of my doctors is admitting patients there right now - hospital seriously underfunded and understaffed. So they admit to a neighboring hospital that has a horrible ER. It's become a serious problem in my town!

I would have to be comatose to not be a good advocate for myself! If my daughter had not been in NYC on a business trip, I would have had her meet me there. My SIL would be less than useless - he's dear but a total flake. I do have all my meds and medical allergies on my iPhone and find that very useful to hand it to them or read it to them. I know my medical history backwards and forwards. When I finally saw the MD, she quickly realized this and said so - she had no concerns.

Yes, I was stunned to discover one could be an art history major in college and then take a two year course and become a PA. Nurse Practitioners have far more stringent requirements. Last summer while driving home from our vacation, my not quite 15 year old grandson's foot became swollen - he had had a minor abrasion on it from a bike tumble a couple of days before. I took him to the ER in Hagerstown MD. The PA x-rayed the foot and said there was a "little bit" of infection, and prescribed Doxycline - seemed an odd choice. The next morning when we'd been on the road for about 3 yrs, DD called - the radiologist at the hospital had come in and read the x-ray and say that this was a VERY deep and troubling infection and wanted us to return to the hospital immediately. That would not have been convenient at all, and she agreed we could continue home if I kept an eye on it for read streaks or swelling (it had gone down some), and if DD promised to take him to the ER immediately when we got home. She did and by then, red streaks started appearing, he was put on IV antibiotics and admitted to the children's hospital downtown for 24 hrs and 3 more rounds of IV's. If that doctor had not double-checked the PA's "diagnosis", my grandson could have potentially been in very big trouble.

I remember that story about your grandson, horrific

I do want to say that the questions that were so offensive are required to be asked by the quasi-governmental agency called The Joint Commission in order to show that we are evaluating each person for every possible thing that might be a problem, whether it is related to the presenting complaint or not; and we ask them of all ages, not just over 50s or 60s. We have to evaluate a person's potential for falls, both in the hospital and at home; we have to make sure that he can care for himself, follow instructions, take his meds properly, Before it was computerized, this "admission survey" was 7 pages long!! Hospitals are expected to be nannies to their patients even though many issues are beyond our ability (and the patient's desire) to remedy, and are held responsible if someone, for whatever reason, has an issue after leaving our care.

I've never heard of staff RNs working in street clothes either! Nor have I ever heard of not being allowed to take a patient's word for their medical history and medications (although you would likely be shocked at how many people have no idea ), and we ALWAYS appreciate written lists of medications, doses, reasons, and diagnoses.

However, I can understand getting a CT scan to rule out colitis (acute infectious or ischemic, not Crohn's) -- people presenting with diarrhea and dehydration, if due to that, can deteriorate very seriously quickly. They wouldn't be able to defend missing that, especially if some labs raised a suspicion, even if norovirus seems most likely. I don't understand not listening to your explanation of your chronic lung disease though.

Also driven by outside agencies, as well as fear of lawsuits, "checklist" medicine is unfortunately a real thing.

Anglophilia-

The thing about bringing someone with you is that as a patient, (especially a mature one) what you say is not always taken seriously. And that did happen to you with the PA. So while you are certainly articulate, well-informed and can advocate for yourself, sometimes it is good to have another person present, a fortiori when you are ill.

And before you wax rhapsodic about the qualifications of nurse practitioners, compared to a physician, a nurse practitioner is small fry.

Have a look at this lengthy but very detailed explanation why you do not want to get your medical care from a nurse practitioner, no matter how many letters she/he has behind her/his name.

https://www.tafp.org/Media/Default/Downloads/advocacy/scope-education.pdf

Very, very scary.

About your grandson- Doxycycline can be used to treat MRSA infections. Where the PA went wrong with your grandson was (like the PA that saw you) in clinical judgement, in being unable to assess the extent of infection. Thank goodness an X-ray was done that was read in timely fashion and the radiologist followed up.

raee-

Sorry, but Anglophilia states she was given a chest CT, not an abdominal CT. A chest CT does not diagnose an abdominal condition. There are tests that can diagnose colitis and Crohns disease other than an abdominal CT, however, the patient should have a history of of symptoms consistent with those diseases, which is not the acute onset of abdominal pain and diarrhea and dehydration with which Anglophilia presented at the ER.

It's rather basic that acute onset diarrhea, vomiting, abdominal cramps in the winter is very likely to be norovirus. It was even in the news that norovirus is going through the Olympic athletes.

maifleur et al-

Every medical group has a different call system. With some groups it seems as though from what some of you say, you are sunk. I am apparently luckier. For sure, I wouldn't watch myself go downhill until I have to call 911, I would call my physician, and if he wasn't in, I would speak with the one who is on call for the group. And there is sound medical reason for this. There are medical conditions for which early treatment can be most useful, for example Tamiflu given early can be effective, but given late, is useless. Toughing it out to be tough, is often rather a mistake.

What if an elderly lived alone or relatives live In another town?

Then you go with a friend.

Some years ago I met and became friendly with a woman many, many years my senior. She had to be hospitalized for a cardiac procedure and I went with her and stayed with her all day and all night. (She told them I was a relative.)

It is horrifying how many mistakes happen in hospitals and someone has to keep their eyes and ears open, and ideally it shouldn't have to be the patient.

Of course, I'm a belt and suspenders type of person, in case you hadn't noticed!

Bossy I worry about that also because most of my friends are within 20 years of my age plus or minus. When I reach 80 a few of them will be in their mid 60's and unable to accompany anyone anywhere. I have no blood relatives like many older women.

It isn't normal for people to be sequestered away in old age homes. People should mix with others of all ages. When you are 80, someone who is 60 can certainly accompany you to the hospital.

But besides that, why not think about making more friends? Can you get to know more of your neighbors, start up conversations, then invite someone for coffee, then a movie? Can you take a class at the community center, join a book club at the library, meet someone at church?

Don't let the convenience of chit-chatting on the internet substitute for having relationships in real life.

There is just a plague of divorce these days, there will be plenty of people around for you to socialize with if you are friendly and intelligent and kind and giving.

It is hard, society is so mobile, families move very often and it is hard to keep up relationships, and children move away, and families are smaller too, so there isn't that whole extended family to look out for each other. So we really do have to work very hard to have a network of friends and a support network.

I was thinking about this thread today and it reminded me of having to take my mom into the ER after she had fallen and hit her head about 4 years ago. She went in by ambulance and by the time we got there wasn't speaking very well. The doctor without asking any questions wanted to know which assisted-living facility my mom was in, how advanced was her Alzheimers, where was her walker, and when had she had her stroke.

I was so stunned by what he said I just looked at him and said "what the hell are you talking about?" She lives on her own, she walks 2 miles a day, she hasn't had a stroke and she has just been diagnosed with Alzheimers and is still capable of tending to her own needs. I was livid with his assumptions.

Circumstances have changed for my mom since then but still...

Anglophilia = I get it but hopefully doctors will be smarter by the time I get there.

Sorry but none of my neighbors have similar interests. Have done the rest and I was bored silly. Volunteered when I was younger in a group that helped other groups in the area with their projects. Learned that most monies raised never went to the people it was raised for. I talk for hours to plant people from around the world every day. There is little difference between being in a nursing home and being cared for at home except at a nursing home there are more people to interact with. Divorce has little to do with any of the stuff you posted loobab.

I opened this post this morning.... and I am in AWE of what is posted. I know, living on my own could be a problem at some point. I have a dnr. My doc, my girls, and my best friend have a copy. Guess I better get one for my house mate too.

Anglo, I sincerely hope you are all better by now.

I need to finish the article writersblock linked. WOW! Getting older isn't for the faint at heart.

Moni

Moni - if you're serious about this DNR (and sounds like you are) there is something you can post on your fridge for first responders so that they won't try to revive you. It's available where I live but it has to be posted in a public area of your home so that the first responders will see it. They won't go looking for it. Just thought I'd mention it.

I read the link posted by writersblock. Wow, too outrageous! San Antonio TX listed as one of hotbeds for elder guardianship abuse.

Eta: I posted link in TX forum.

eta#2: gosh, I hope the NYT story is factual. I’d hate to be passing this along and contributing to the internet false story syndrome

Anglo, sorry to hear about your ED visit. Glad your experience with the doc was not so bad. Sounds like the case manager was asking ALL the questions in the electronic medical record, instead of just key/relevant ones. Don't know any ED where staff RN's wear street clothes, except sometimes as a layer under a scrub top.

PA's educated as generalists, may have only 2 yrs of medical education. In the ED, too many groups will hire PA's because they need help, but don't want to spend the $$$ for another doc, which will cut into profits. Can hire a PA for $95K and bill the same as if physician (salary ~$300K) saw the pt.

Hope you find a better ED for your next visit. In the Chicago area, I find most of our young residents to be quite good; we are lucky to have many excellent medical schools in the area.

Aren't most residents you would deal with in Chicago NOT from Chicago area medical schools? Isn't it more typical that residents at any given program are from medical schools all over the country and not just from the local area?