Well that sucks. You say these are on a rooftop? In full sun, I imagine. You don't say where in the world you live - does it get below freezing where you are?

Did you receive any installation instructions with this purchase? Like what adhesive to use, etc.

This doesn't help you, of course, but this illustrates a very good reason not to buy expensive products from a big box store.

Sigh....yes 2cm (less than 1") thick porcelain isn't very strong. They can work well assuming the substrate preparation and installation were EXTREMELY good.

You mention roof top deck...what is sitting underneath the tiles? Concrete? Plywood? How was it installed? Laying on Gravel/sand? Grass? Adhesive? Floating?

Who did the work?

So many questions....

Since you reference a rooftop deck it sure sounds like your installation is free-floating. Here is a link to Florim showing their recommended method of installation, a basic pedestal system. http://outdoor.florimusa.com/laying-as-a-floating-floor/

This system is consistent with any rooftop decking I am familiar with, be it Evo porcelain or assorted granite or limestone options on the market. For rooftop decks installed on one of these systems the thickness being roughly 3/4" is not an issue.

While I am not a big fan of porcelain in a ground contact situation, it is fairly common practice here in Chicago to see porcelain on rooftop decks of single family homes as well as high rise condos. Porcelain does appear to be holding up over a period of years when installed on a pedestal system or system recommended by the manufacturer.

This leads to a pair of questions. 1) Did you install the porcelain on a pedestal system or install it directly onto your rooftop? You make no mention of the installation method. 2) If you did not install it on a pedestal system then how was the porcelain installed?

Again, that volume of cracking is so extreme I've never heard or seen about anything remotely close to it. Something is amiss. The photos below are examples of a routine pedestal installation on a rooftop deck.

I installed the pavers as a protected membrane roof system with EPDM membrane on 3/4" OSB with 1" Dow Styrofoam over the membrane and loose laid pavers as ballast for wind uplift. I did not install pedestals. I installed it similar to the Florim adhesive method but I didn't use adhesive on Styrofoam. When I say fragile I don't mean weak. 2cm pavers seemed very strong in the store I set up on two edges and jumped 250 lb in the middle and that doesn't work with 3/8" tile. I returned 1/3 of the pavers from the first two pallets which were seriously broken (not just small chips). It looked like shipping damage so I bought more and finished the job. I'm thinking thermal stress fatigue? The white tiles are 180 degrees in the sun.

Mr. Disosway:

Thank you for the reference photo.

1.) What happens to rainwater and snow melt on your rooftop?

2.) Where are you located?

3.) Is the OSB in direct contact with the roof? Has it warped?

While you may have not had a satisfactory response from Florim at this point, they have a vested interest in your satisfaction. You may wish to plead your case regarding product issues as far up the chain of command as you can get, especially if you intend to re-install a Florim product.

Regardless of future product selection, it might be prudent to hire out the installation to a contractor who has previously done rooftop pedestal systems as opposed to the layered installation system you reference in photo number one.

Good luck with your efforts. I hope your second rooftop experience is an improvement over the first one.

I'm in Florida. OSB roof deck is only 1/8"/ft slope but perfectly flat, no ponding, and 1/8" space between tiles so it stays pretty dry except for moisture in contact area between tile and styrofoam. I'm in Florida. It did drop to 30.9 degrees once in December but no snow. Florim tile is <.5% water absorption and frost resistant rated.

Ohhhhh...."... it stays pretty dry except for moisture in contact area between tile and styrofoam". And there's a LARGE swing in temperatures with that moisture trapped undwerneath. That's 150 F deg difference in less than 6 months. That range is from below freezing to almost boiling! If there is even a SNICK of moisture, you are going to get "frost heaves". Those of us who have lived on the Canadian prairies, we are WELL aware of frost heaves. The moisture sitting UNDERNEATH the tarmac freezes and rises like a washing board. Those heaves will break even the best laid road surface....even the German's have a hard time dealing with it....and they are well known for road building.

I have a feeling you have issues that have to do with movement. All it takes is a small change of elevation UNDERNEATH the tile to get them to crack. How is the adhesive standing up?

There is no adhesive. Tiles are loose laid on Styrofoam board. Basically 0 - 0.060" moisture between tile and styrofoam which may heave 9% or 0.006"? Tile temperature swings 100 - 150 degrees every day. I called Dow tech support and she said water absorption would not be an issue for their blue board unless the styrofoam is totally immersed for days. Since the roof doesn't pond it is never even partially immersed except during a heavy rain.

Completely incorrect installation. Of course it cracked. Anything with even a snick of deflection cracks tile. Every element in your kludge sandwich has deflection. Except the tile. It cracked. Because tile doesn’t bend.

Since my first post Lowes sent a quality complaint form to Florim so next week I may have their input on this. This is over conditioned space and my first invention, aluminum DryDeck, leaked so I moved it to my carport deck and went with tried and true EPDM protected membrane system and fixed my roof leaks. I know my ballast is not standard approved. Dow says, "In colder climates, a 3/16" space will minimize any freeze-thaw spalling on the concrete and moisture build-up in the insulation". So if I was still in Clarendon Hills I would need pedestals even if only 3/16". I have live oak leaves dropping between my not rectified pavers so I decided to set them slap down on the styrofoam to avoid rotting mold. Solar heat softening Styrofoam is not causing me problems. Moisture on the Styrofoam is not causing me problems. My only problem is my ballast is cracking. Florim frost resistant rating doesn't mean frost proof? If I put them back on 6x6x1/2" styrofoam pedestals would they not crack? If this is a frost issue did 1/3 of the pavers on first 2 pallets crack from frost in the pallet? I have 10000ft2 of concrete pavers driveway and pool deck that my kids and their friends laid. Not one cracked paver even when wet but they may not get as cold as pavers on styrofoam?

Deflection is movement up and down. Usually between spans. Or insufficient spacing.between spans to create rigidity. Rigid surfaces like tile will not tolerate deflection. They crack. Read the TCNA manual if you want to understand. That roof deck has deflection spades. OSB for goodness sake! The whole thing needs to be rebuilt correctly. Or else a completely different topping system chosen.

Sophie, I tend to agree it needs to be rebuilt but the OSB, EPDM, and Styrofoam are all working. Florim USA porcelain pavers all failed all on their own with zero deflection zero load zero movement zero rigidity nice soft foam board. Maybe gravel ballast as shown in the above PMR picture won't crack or deflect.

Thanks everyone for all your support, comments, and experience. I appreciate the brainstorming because so far I can't for sure explain what happened. I may try a frost test if I can find a freezer to hold 2'x2' tile.

This post, more than most others, is one I can't wait to hear the final answer to insofar as "what went wrong". I have no input. My closest experience is exploding a pizza "stone" on account of using it on top of the stove instead of in the oven. I thought an electric burner would be even enough heat, but 20 minutes later -- hell no -- it "exploded" with a bang, went flying and I had to emergency ruin a pair of wool sox trying to get it off of the floor before it melted any more vinyl and toes. I was struck by how much the curvy, waving, razor sharp cracks of the pizza "stone" look exactly like those in above photos. I feel for you Mr. D. :-(

@Yardvaark. John, I hoped you would see this post and say something along the lines of, "X, Y & Z should take care of it nicely."

Somehow, the dots are just not connecting. The OP's installation does seem to parallel the diagram though not exactly. In the end I think a basic rooftop pedestal system is the solution though it will negate all of the previous efforts. Whatever is in place is a contributor to the problem.

Your aside on the pizza stone made me chuckle. That was a nice visual you provided with the wool socks and melting vinyl.

Last fall, against the advice of my site supervisor, I used Mexican beach pebbles around a gas fire pit assuring him that "there is no way the gas fire will be hot enough to impact these rocks." I had no idea that fire could crack and propel rock like that!

To be sure, we have a vested interest in knowing why things fail, especially when the failure is catastrophic and expensive. Wish I could help but rooftop tile is out of my experience.

I guess I won't use beach pebbles on my next fire pit. :-)

Cause of failure is still speculation and I will probably never know for sure. But today Florim said they paid Lowes for all the pavers I bought and closed out the warranty claim. Florim quality dept said if I replace the shattered pavers with new 2cm Florim porcelain pavers from Lowes they will work just fine in the exact same installation method. When I replace them I plan to set them up on 1/2" Dow Styrofoam pedestals based on advice from this forum.

Post some photos when you are relaxing with a cold beverage after completion!

I have a theory that these Florim pavers cracked due to a manufacturing defect. I noticed while taking them down: 1. It is not a porcelain contact problem because none had constrained contact and many had 1/8" gap and still cracked. 2. I bought these in batches from different stores. 1/3 of the pavers in first 2 pallets I bought were cracked in the pallet. Most pavers cracked in the first area I installed. None of the pavers from the last batch I bought cracked. 3. Florim told me if I replace these with new Florim pavers of the same type installed the same way they will do just fine. They didn't think it was a freeze problem because their porcelain is so dense. They didn't think it was a contact problem.

Cracked pavers are coming down and new ones going up. I am very hopeful the new ones don't crack. I'm also glad I have a little manlift to help me carry them down and up.

Looking good! It's nice that you have taken the time to post additional photos of the installation this time. I'll be looking for the next photo with your feet propped up, lounging with that beverage.

Any updates?

After 3 mo the new pavers are still looking good. I like my pedestal system. Setting pavers on 4" x 1/2" styrofoam strips feels nice and stable. I'm hoping these new pavers last as long as the styrofoam and EPDM membrane under them.

K&D, my feet are propped up or doing laps in the pool.

That's great, Mark. Enjoy it!

Ha!! Glad to hear it, Mark. Thanks for letting us know the result. :)

We are considering using this product in the chicago suburbs on grade. Our contractor is recommending adding Gator Base to the installation plan. CA-7 aggregate, then CA-16 then gatorbase. Any thoughts.....

I like the Gators but on dirt I think they recommend well drained gravel base and sand. I don't know why mine cracked but I laid them on a sloping sheet of EPDM. It was well drained but if they absorbed any water it couldn't evaporate as well as on sand. I remember freezing temperatures were more common when I lived in Clarendon Hills than in Florida.

Mark Disosway, Did Florim pay for the costs of the labor of new installation? I am assuming that they gave you the new pavers free. Thanks in advance

Lowes filed a claim with Florim who agreed to the claim and Lowes refunded what I paid for the tiles that cracked. I bought new Florim paver tiles at Lowes but they were a different item number and higher price. My daughter helped me with DIY labor. So far the new ones haven't cracked. Time to go swimming.

I know this thread is old, but it's the only one I could find on the topic. We installed about 1100sf of 2cm about 3 years ago in the chicago suburbs. They were installed using Gatorbase system for porcelain tile on top of a solid 10" or so of subbase. The system has spacer/support in all 4 corners effectively creating a 1/8" pedestal with 1/4" spacing between tiles filled with poymeric sand. the manufacturer's adhesive was applied in all 4 corners connecting the tile to the spacer and the foam board. 20 tiles broke over the first winter, 30 tiles last winter. all breaks are on the corners. with about 25% now broken, i'm wondering what to do about the other 75%? Thoughts?

My theory is unless they are well drained the water they absorb can freeze and crack them. Maybe adhesive prevented corners from draining? None of the new ones I installed on styrofoam strips have cracked. I reused some of the original ones which hadn't cracked and they also seem ok when supported on styrofoam strips. And there have been a dozen days with low below 30; even one day down to 23.