80 Degrees! Where's my winter?

6 years ago

You understand -- our "winter" basically runs December through February. Maybe slops over into March. Might start a bit in late November. If we don't get rain then -- we don't get rain. Which is where we are.

A couple of days back, we got 0.30-inch . . .

So -- it's 80 degrees today -- with a dry, mild East wind.

Roses are beginning to give up on any hope of a winter rest . . .

"Orange Smith"

'Mel's Heritage'

"Elisabeth's China"

"Secret Garden Musk Climber"

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Melissa Northern Italy zone 8

6 years ago

Jeri, you have my sympathies: 80 degrees in February is just wrong.

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Comments (34)

User
6 years ago
I wouldn't mind a day or two of 80F right now, Jeri....

I looked at the second photo without reading its name and thought "gosh, there's a pretty thing!' and then realized what it was! LOL
Karen Jurgensen (Zone 4 MN)
6 years ago
I'm sorry you aren't getting your rain Jeri! Your roses do look lovely though!

Paul, do you feel the zone restrictions on Mel's Heritage are pretty correct at zone 6? Or is this something we in the frozen north can try?
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User
6 years ago
oooh.... All beautiful but Mel's Heritage is especially gorgeous.
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
6 years ago
All this beauty, and all it does is cause disquiet in my heart. How soon before we change from a Mediterranean to a desert climate? However, it's nice that you have these lovelies to enjoy. For some reason I have almost no blooms right now.
nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska
6 years ago
Karen and I can surely attest that Jeri's winter has shown up in our regions, and we'd happily share any of the cold and/or precipitation if we could. This has been a particularly nasty cold winter with below zero temperatures from about mid-December through now, with the usual schizophrenic warming spells we get in Nebraska every 3-4 weeks. After you in California got some much-needed rain late in 2017 it looked like there might be some respite from your extreme drought, but it is already sounding like drought is settling back in for the long haul again.

Karen, I have desperately wanted to grow Mel's Heritage as well as many of Paul's other exquisitely formed repeat-blooming roses, but only a few of them are reliably hardy for me in zone 5 (Oshun and Unconditional Love are the best of these in my yard for winter survival). I have tried Mel's Heritage at least 3 times in increasingly protected spots, including my virtual zone 6 pocket, without any success yet in overwintering it. I think zone 6 in a protected spot is the outside limit of its cold survival, though I'm still trying it one more time in my ultra-protected zone 6 tea rose area to see if I can coax it to at least grow as a shrub even if it won't climb. Fortunately, Paul has equivalently gorgeous gallicas mosses and other once-bloomers that LOVE our zones and dislike the warmer climates, so that evens things out and lets us enjoy some truly remarkable Barden roses in our climate. I find it amazing that Paul can breed both delicate roses with tea heritage and cold-loving gallicas in one PNW location, but we are grateful coast to coast across our highly varied climates that he can do so.

Bottom line then is that I wouldn't try Mel's Heritage in zone 4 unless you bring a pot inside for winter protection. In the meantime, may I recommend the lovely Marianne or Umbra (below) as terrific Barden roses for your climate?

If Paul chimes back in here, he could let me know if the pictures below look like the also highly recommended Song of the Stars. RV sold me this as Song of Paris (which it clearly isn't), but speculation elsewhere has led to the happy tentative conclusion that this might be my second Song of the Stars.

Cynthia
roseseek
6 years ago
Keep your fingers crossed, Jeri. We are to cool off next week a whole ten degrees, back to what the weather people are calling "normal"! Little to no rain, but at least "not summer" temps! Paul, Mel's Heritage just may be your "masterpiece" for California climates! Whodda thunk it? Good job, thank you!
Karen Jurgensen (Zone 4 MN)
6 years ago
Cynthia, I do have Marianne- who could possibly resist a peach Charles Des Mills style gallica? I REALLY desperately want to try Gallicandy too- it looks so very sumptuous. Every year I try to add at leaxt one of Paul's- last year was Siren's Keep. Just a tiny band from RPN last spring, hopefully it will bloom for me this year. It's in my new southern facing rose border (Less sun then you'd think there, thanks to a big silver maple on my hell strip shading it.) I love your mystery spotty gallica! Also tears- I'd love to try Mel's, but I'll have to pass, if you can't get it to behave for you. Large flowered climbers seem not to do well for me ( I'll save for another day the story of my heartbreak over Eden and Alchymist)

Yes- its been a very cold, very wet winter for us here in MN. If I could custom order winter weather we would be in the 20s from December through the beginning of March. Sadly Mother Nature has other ideas.

My fingers are firmly crossed that our California friends begin to see lots more rain headed their way, toot sweet!
User
6 years ago
@Cynthia: yes, that is certainly Song of The Stars you have there, and beautifully grown too. Many thanks for your kind comments

@Kim: I think you may be right. It’s an exceptionally good plant, especially in California climates!

@Karen: I think Mel’s heritage would be challenged in most zone 6 gardens, but it would depend on the severity of freeze events, how much parching wind exposure it gets, etc. I’d be surprised if it fared well long-term. However, my specimens survived the Polar Vortex of 2015 with minimal damage, and we had a week of nights down to MINUS 8 F here! Many tender roses were killed outright.
jerijen
Original Author
6 years ago
PAUL -- Aren't you glad you didn't think it was awful? <G> ;-)
sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
6 years ago
We are having the same kind of warm temps here. 80F this week. Normally Feb is the coldest month. I think winter forgot about Feb this year lol.
roseseek
6 years ago
Nope! Some "selfish folks" elsewhere in the country are "hogging it all"! LOL! (JUST KIDDING!)
User
6 years ago
My sympathies, too. Winter -a period of "rest",of wetness and nuturing- is so important for life. I can't help but share Ingrid's fears, though I still hope and pray that things will somehow get better. Not very logical, perhaps, but still...

O, Paul, how I wish Mel's Heritage-as well as others of your roses-were available here in Europe. It is a shame for us in warm climates like Italy to be unable to grow these modern beauties that would be probably FAR more adapted to our climate than are the Austins,for example. I guess I have to count myself as lucky that at least some of Kim's roses made it over to our side of the pond before the import/export restrictions became so rigid...
jerijen
Original Author
6 years ago
Ingrid, AFAICS, my immediate area already is a desert. Even tho minor rainfall gets into the surrounding area, it doesn't make it up into our valley. The hills block it. That's probably always been true (the pioneers called it "Pleasant Valley") but now that rainfall to the region is faltering, the lack of rain here is even more noticeable.
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
6 years ago
I happen to have the same frustrating situation, Jeri, with hills blocking the rain, and often not getting any of the rain that others around me are delighted about. If my roses had legs they'd all take a hike to get to the other side of those hills.
jerijen thanked ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
Alana8aSC
6 years ago
I'm having Basel breaks and rootstock coming up, on my one grafted rose I really wanted :(
jerijen
Original Author
6 years ago
Ingrid -- my roses would be joining yours in their exodus from drought.
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
6 years ago
It is supposed to dip to 16 F and 19 F Sunday and Monday nights here. That is not what we need when the forsythia is on the verge of popping open and the roses have already started growing. The days will go up to the mid 40s F. We've had nice mild weather previously this winter. These would be this winter's lows. This cold spell has other dips into the 20s F ahead. I'm debating what to do. My pots are fine in the alcove. I wonder if I should cover already in the ground "Jessie Hildreth" those two nights at least with a large plastic tub those worst cold nights. Our rainfall is also low this winter with 5 inches below average this rain season since October. Climate change is for the birds.
roseseek
6 years ago
I think that might be a good idea, Sheila.
Lisa Adams
6 years ago
Jeri, I SO wish I could answer your title posts question with the answer, “I have borrowed it down south a bit, Jeri. I’m finished using it now, and I’ve just sent it back to you. Thanks for letting me use it.” Unfortunately, I’m in the same dry docked ship, that you are. I tried to really cut back on my watering, since it’s important that my water bill go down in the wintertime, with poor results. I found out which roses are susceptible to rust in a hurry!

I sure feel for you. Your roses DO look beautiful, and I’m sure you know which one is MY favorite:) I guess we just have to enjoy what we get, when we get it. Lisa
jerijen thanked Lisa Adams
K S
6 years ago
Sheila, here in Seattle we are supposed to dip into the 20s in the early part of the week. My roses and clematis are all putting on fresh growth, and I am also not sure whether I will cover them or just hope that this passes quickly enough that it won't do any lasting damage.

I feel terrible for those of you who aren't getting the rain you used to. Climate change is really awful. Why there is so little political will in this country to do something about it is just a mystery to me. It seems like it should be a non-partisan issue. :(
jerijen
Original Author
6 years ago
We actually have cold weather on the way ... if only for a few days. Only, it comes with a dry, cold, buffetting wind (we call a "Dry Santa Ana" -- the sort of weather that blows down fences and trees.

Unfortunately, it won't bring us a drop of rain. And the Window Of Opportunity is beginning to slide closed for 2018. <SIGH>

But, FWIW, here is "Orange Smith" about 18 hours later:
Alana8aSC
6 years ago
I can't believe I'm having Basel growth. It's just way to early IMO.
ogroser
6 years ago
Jeri et al - Will there be any roses in bloom at the San Jose Municipal Rose Garden on April 22? I haven 't been to that part of the rose world before and have an opportunity to be there that weekend. Thanks. Best, Nick
jerijen
Original Author
6 years ago
San Jose Heritage Rose Garden
Spring & Taylor Streets
Photographed in Mid-May

But we've seen it in this much bloom in late April . . .

I've never visited the San Jose MUNICIPAL Rose Garden . . .
But the SJHRG has a higher % of Old Roses, and I have visited it almost yearly for many years.
roseseek
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Whether the Heritage is at peak flower or not, Nick, if you're going to be in the area anyway, you MUST visit it! There isn't anything else like it in the country. No matter how many roses you've handled, you are sure to find many things there you've never even heard of before. Take a spare data card for your camera and a second set of charged batteries! The Municipal garden is nice, but it's more in line with what you will find in many cities across the country. The Heritage is one of a kind. There is a searchable catalog for you to look up roses of interest here. Make a list of everything you want to look at while there so you can pack as much study and exploration as possible into your time! You will love it!
nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska
6 years ago
Thanks for the confirmation as well as kind comments on my Song of the Stars, Paul. I'll get its label changed and move it to the back of the border once it's done blooming this year so it can expand to its heart's content. It's a truly lovely rose.

Karen, one of the other many benefits of Paul's Gallicas is that they don't sucker nearly as much as Charles de Mills (frankly, no rose on this planet suckers that much). Marianne is among the ones he mentioned as being particularly mannerly in a post some time back, and if my memory serves he also mentioned Etienne and Allegra among these as moderately suckering, with perhaps Gallicandy and Song of the Stars (mine is certainly nicely contained though bushy).

Jeri, those garden photos from San Jose are truly awesome. I had the opportunity to be in San Jose for business a few years ago, but I had the misfortune to need to be there in late January which is about the worst time to visit a rose garden. Looks like I'll have to finagle another trip one of these days.

Cynthia
ogroser
6 years ago
Thanks all. I definitely will pay a visit to the Heritage Rose Garden. Best, Nick
jerijen
Original Author
6 years ago
Cynthia -- I hope you will have another opportunity for a visit to the Heritage. It's a wonderful place, and just walking through it will teach you so much. (And a very pleasant lesson, too.)
Lisa Adams
6 years ago
Those pictures of the SJHRG are incredible! I think I'll check to see how far a drive San José is from Bakersfield or Visalia. I have family there, and maybe it would be too bad from there. Jeri, are you getting your cold Santa Ana today? We sure are in San Diego County. The winds are wild and so cold! This daytime high of 54F is pretty rare around here. I'm sure others are laughing at me, but at 54F plus the cold wind, I'm freezing!

Cynthia, your 'Song of the Stars' is beautiful! I wish I could grow 'Marianne' and 'Gallicandy', but I'm slowly collecting the Paul Braden's I can grow here. Lisa
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
6 years ago
KS et al I'm pulling for our roses to get through this cold spell. I miss Spring.
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
You guys are so lucky! I guess you have a lot of traffic, but I could make a vacation just to visiting the California rose gardens. What kind of rose is Gallicandy? Any idea how it would do for me?
Karen Jurgensen (Zone 4 MN)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Vapor- Gallicandy is Paul's bubblegum pink gallica. If other gallicas do well for you, I'd think that one would too. Every time I look at the pictures for it I want to reach through the screen, steal it, and run away giggling. Something about that rose... I don't have it yet, but as soon as RVR puts it back in stock...

Gallicandy

Cynthia- my worst suckering rose is definitely Mustialaanruusu. No wonder this is a rose that made it's way all over Scandinavia and the US- its a prolific suckerer, and easy peasy to establish from the suckers. I planted Charles this last spring, we will see how he is doing soon.
Lisa Adams
6 years ago
Jeri, of all things! After a day of Sant Ana winds, I just had a rain shower followed by hail! SO strange! Lisa