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muskokascp

what underlay and floor for cottage basement walkout - DMX and Adura?

muskokascp
6 years ago

We bought an ugly little cottage a few months ago and have just removed all the flooring from the basement. The lower level is the walkout with the kitchen, dining area and tv sitting room. They had a vapour barrier, 2"of styrofoam with 2X4 strips every 18" or so secured to the concrete floor, followed by pressboard plywood screwed to the 2X4's then cheap laminate flooring on top. There was a lot of moisture staining on some of the plywood and the bottom of the drywall that was under this system. We are looking at a LVP product, possibly an Adura line.

What would the ideal underlayment look like in this case? Something like DMX step1? This cottage is in the east coast and we will be using in in the winter so warmth is a facotr for me as well. Would the DMX and Adura flooring be warm?

Since it is a concrete floor and a 40yr old cottage, the floor may not be exactly level. How critical is it to level the entire area before installing the Adura?


Comments (7)

  • SJ McCarthy
    6 years ago

    DMX is a heavy duty moisture barrier with very little thermal insulation. The Adura doesn't like underpad so there is almost no way to "add" insulation.

    If you need water resistance + vapour barrier because of a wet basement slab, (the drywall is SCREAMING OUT moisture intrusion from the slab) then you want to look at DriCore Subfloor R+. This is already a vapour barrier (the other dricore is NOT...go figure). And it has a MASSIVE R-value (even I'm impressed and I used to sell cork for a living...cork's one of the best insulators out there so if I'M impressed then it is something to take seriously).

    DMX sounds great....but it takes more work than you can imagine and the R-value isn't there. Not like the DriCore R+. And DriCore R+ allows you to use shims to help level out wonky subfloors....which is NOT something DMX can do.

    And just for fun....DriCore R+ will be roughly 2-3 TIMES more expensive than DMX....but you definitely get what you pay for!!!!!

    Of course, you could to the right thing and have a moisture mitigation company come in a deal with the basement seepage. But that $5 - $10/sf bill is probably not something you want to look at right now. It would solve every issue you have...and you can have any floor you want without worrying about more mold/drywall rot in the future.

  • SJ McCarthy
    6 years ago

    The DriCore R+ is closed cell STYROFOAM with OSB mounted on top. I can tell you that it is the vapour barrier system that DriCore produces for situations like yours.

    Your description makes it sound like the styrofoam was a jerryrigged system that mimics the DriCore R+ system. If the screws PIERCED the styrofoam and PIERCED the VAPOUR barrier, you essentially had a bunch of holes punched in the water-proofing system. The holes = water intrusion.

    And NO....LVT products do NOT LIKE underpad. That's why I'm suggesting going with a system that ADDS an R value. DMX has very little R-value. It is about the same as plywood.

    And just in case I misunderstood your post and there were NO HOLES IN THE VAPOUR BARRIER on the slab, then you have a MUCH BIGGER ISSUE than you anticipate. The stains on the DRYWALL is the big red flag here.

    And if you want an underpad, the DMX REQUIRES PLYWOOD to be placed over top! Yep. It says it in the very fine print of the INSTALLATION instructions. And to put the plywood on top....you need to SCREW IT DOWN onto the concrete!!! You need tapcons. And you need to the right drill bit, etc.

    And the DMX is HARD to "shim". You still need to get this floor flat enough for the LVT. Whew.

    DriCore R+ is SOOOOOOOO much more appropriate. The stains on the drywall concern me.

  • Rick
    6 years ago

    Amdry subfloor has a even higher rvalue then DriCore. If you have have heavy moisture I would go this route.

  • muskokascp
    6 years ago

    I understand the concern with the moisture damaged drywall. It's likely due to the way the subfloor was installed by the previous owners. The base plates for the stud walls were placed directly on the concrete floor with the drywall reaching down to that level. THEN at some point they decided to insulate the floor with the styrofoam etc. So the subfloor was butted up to the walls, not under them. The lower 3" of the drywall had no moisture protection. The Dricore R+ sounds like a good option for us and appropriate for LVT.


  • SJ McCarthy
    6 years ago

    Ahhhh....the moisture problem on the drywall was the original install: "The base plates for the stud walls were placed directly on the concrete floor with the drywall reaching down to that level."

    Wood studs should not sit directly over concrete - especially in a basement. Moisture wicks UP into the wood and then is soaked up by the drywall. A vapour barrier must sit below the studs.

    The old "subfloor" was nasty for many reasons. The exposed drywall was simply "air drying". Once the nasty subfloor (wrong, wrong and all wrong) was installed the "air drying" stopped. The drywall moisture (that was there all along) was trapped by the subfloor and was prevented from drying off. Once the moisture was trapped, the mold found a wet/dark place to live and VOILA you have a massive problem.

    The problem already existed by the wooden studs sitting on basement concrete. There are ways to do this without creating the bacterial and mold stew you have. The other person didn't get it and now you have to fix their mistake.

    Anyway, once you get the studs OFF the concrete (sigh....yes you need to do that first) and then deal with the remediation of the mold, you can then go ahead and get the flooring dealt with.

  • muskokascp
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    SJ McCarthy, thought I would give you an update. The basement has been gutted - all flooring, drywall and insulation removed. We've used self leveling cement in spots to bring the floor to within 1/4" level over about 15'. The concrete foundation walls have 1" rigid foam board applied. On Monday the dricoreR+ is going down. Then restudding the walls on top of the dricore R+. Then all the walls insulated with Roxul, vapour barrier and finally drywall.

    For flooring we plan to use the new Rustic Estates LVT from Kraus.

    Thanks for your help and fingers crossed we have a nice quiet, warm waterproof floor for years to come.